19 replies to this topic

[Jet-Mech]

Recently, three auctions on Flea-Bay have featured four magenta 136s. There is also one seller who has two separate lots each containing a green 50, and it was suggested that particular figure be downgraded to Class B. I'm not too sure about downgrading that figure, but I think downgrading the magenta 136 to Class B might seem reasonable. Though this might be much to the chagrin of one LRG member, what are everyone's thoughts on this matter?

[jmckinnon316]

Recently, three auctions on Flea-Bay have featured four magenta 136s. There is also one seller who has two separate lots each containing a green 50, and it was suggested that particular figure be downgraded to Class B. I'm not too sure about downgrading that figure, but I think downgrading the magenta 136 to Class B might seem reasonable. Though this might be much to the chagrin of one LRG member, what are everyone's thoughts on this matter?

Seems a bit dangerous to start talks about downgrading figures.

If you downgrade one then, by association, you should downgrade all the other figures belonging to that tree (part) as I see it.

Downgrading one figure would begin to unravel the whole system that the colour code was built on and which we all tend to believe in.

Or am I missing something?



Cheers
John

[Ericnilla]

i think down grading figures is appropriate if such figure is more abundant that previously thought to be. Class A should be labeled on just figures that deserve the title. The classification guide is not set in stone and itself is still a Draft. Things will obviously change both ways over time for a few figures.

Edited by Ericnilla, 11 August 2011 - 11:38 PM.

[jmckinnon316]

i think down grading figures is appropriate if such figure is more abundant that previously thought to be. Class A should be labeled on just figures that deserve the title. The classification guide is not set in stone and itself is still a Draft. Things will obviously change both ways over time for a few figures.

Downgrading may well be appropriate - but my point is that all the other guys in that tree: http://home.comcast....PartEleven.html should go down with him

Is that the way everyone else understands it?

cheers
John

[Ericnilla]

yup

[jmckinnon316]

Interestingly though, that not all of that Tree are Class A!

I have every Magenta figure in that part and only #104, #125, #134, #135 & #136 are Class A
The rest are 'uncommon' but not Class A

Was this part made up of two seperate trees? Doesn't appear to be, according to Soupie's archive

Cheers
John

[Ericnilla]

if there are two trees, they dont distinguish on colors, but i doubt it since there are only 12 figures... you can easily fit that many on a gang mold.

No need for multiple molds.

Edited by Ericnilla, 12 August 2011 - 12:08 AM.

[walker13.1]

Recently, three auctions on Flea-Bay have featured four magenta 136s. There is also one seller who has two separate lots each containing a green 50, and it was suggested that particular figure be downgraded to Class B. I'm not too sure about downgrading that figure, but I think downgrading the magenta 136 to Class B might seem reasonable. Though this might be much to the chagrin of one LRG member, what are everyone's thoughts on this matter?

When was the last magenta 136 discovered before these auctions?

[Strontium Dog]

Interestingly though, that not all of that Tree are Class A!

I have every Magenta figure in that part and only #104, #125, #134, #135 & #136 are Class A
The rest are 'uncommon' but not Class A

I believ it may be that Veers' classes were a combination of rarity and desirability. I'm not certain, so if Veers could chip in here and confirm or deny that!

Personally I am with you; Class A, B or C should be strictly defined according to its relative rarity, and no other factors should be taken into consideration.

[Biffard]

Another recent similar example is the Salmon #153 (Claw). It has shown up roughly 5-6 times within the last 2 months. It is a class B but that could be thrown up for discussion about whether it should be downgraded or not (if it is based on rarity alone). Again, this is where Veers would have to explain if the classification was based off of rarity, desirability or a combination of sorts.

Another thing to think about is are these figures showing up in spurts and then we don't see them again for months and months? It could just be a period of time where there happens to be a group of sellers with these figures and then we won't see them again for a long time.

I enjoy the classification of A,B, and C figures and I think overall it is a good thing to have for collectors. However, I sometimes wonder what our community would be like without it? Would someone still be willing to pay $80 for a small lot with a green #50? Would a purple #15 still sell for $400? When I start to ask myself these questions I begin to lean towards continually changing the classification guide to determine which figures belong in which classes, because it ultimately determines the perceived value of the figures IMO.

I admit to selling Class A figures at an inflated price only because they are considered Class A and are perceived as "rare". I also know other members that do the same. I also am willing to pay more for a Class A figure as well only because of it's status. So, in addition to the original post about downgrading figures, would downgrading figures lower the price of MUSCLE figures? What if there were no classification guide at all, would MUSCLE prices drop on some figures? Obviously the most popular figures would retain their value but would a green #50 sell for less?

Anyway, I didn't intend for this post to be this long, this is basically something to think about/consider while we are on this topic.

[Jet-Mech]

I have no idea when the last magenta 136 was discovered prior to these three auctions (the single-figure auction--I believe that seller is Jay/Clawfreak--one that ended yesterday or the day before, and the current one with two such figures). I do, however, have some other ideas to share.

I'm not sure if Mattel ever intended for certain figures to be rarer than others; that would be something Veers might be able to answer. My best guess is no. I believe that the class system is based the result of 25 years of attrition, and certain sculpt/color combos likely have better survival rates than others. Unfortunately, we're working with way too small a sample of the total M.U.S.C.L.E. output; nobody knows how many figures remain to be discovered or were indignantly sent off to a landfill, let alone how many of each sculpt/color combo.

Lastly, Biffard brought up an interesting point about what our hobby would have been like without the class system. I think it's something of a moot point, as the class system would have inevitably developed one way or another. What really sucks about it is underhanded chickenshit behavior that results from rarity (be it actual or perceived) and shady persons.

I certainly hope we see a deflation of M.U.S.C.L.E. values and a sharp reduction of shysterly behavior, and sooner rather than later.

[SmokinGun]

There has been more Magenta 136 earlier this year as I do recall seeing them on ebay auctions. Even at Yahoo Japan, I saw a magneta #136 4-pack as well as a loose purple #60. Does anyone remeber seeing 4 or 5 Purple #60 in 1 month last year? Yeah, it happen. Theres just too many to be called class A's. Collectors paying too much for figures that should be consider class B's or even lower.

Now that the muscle community has been focusing on class A's for a good while. There need to be a Class A MUSCLE sighting thread and we'll see how many class A's show up through out the year.

[jkaris]

Now that the muscle community has been focusing on class A's for a good while. There need to be a Class A MUSCLE sighting thread and we'll see how many class A's show up through out the year.

What he said.

[Jet-Mech]

There need to be a Class A MUSCLE sighting thread and we'll see how many class A's show up through out the year.

Agreed.

[Clawfreak]

Well I like the Class A, B, C ( Veers ) classification. Although I think it does need an little update, you can't help when a ton of people see those things selling for that much on EGay and then they decide to look at there collection, look in the basement, attic, or under the kids bed and find those Class A's and list them all around the same time. If you have noticed like said above we have seen figures like the Purple 60 in several auctions in one month, then the Salmon 153, and now the Magent 136. It could just be luck of the draw and fate they appear when the do or just bandwagon sellers trying to capitalize ( I am guilty like the rest of us ) but it does not mean they are not hard to get and should not deserve the classification they have been given...Its funny that the claw is like this as well as I have not seen a green or light blue claw in a minute but the dark blue, red, and orange have been on alot lately. The green and dark blue claw used to be the easiest to get but now the tables have turned. I think it's just a timing thing. One day all you will see is purple claws and Jay's dreams and everyone elses wishes will come true!!!

Edited by Clawfreak, 13 August 2011 - 11:35 AM.

[jmckinnon316]

If you have noticed like said above we have seen figures like the Purple 60 in several auctions in one month

Several Purple 60's and I didn't get one ....

I fell asleep just as I was waiting to snipe one - I guess that's justice!

Anyway, if anyone has one let me know - I'll cross your palms with plenty silver for it!



John

[Clawfreak]

Several Purple 60's and I didn't get one ....

I fell asleep just as I was waiting to snipe one - I guess that's justice!

Anyway, if anyone has one let me know - I'll cross your palms with plenty silver for it!



John

Ok John... "I'm your Huckleberry" what movie is that from and no help from anyone else and we can work something out for my extra purple 60...Deal? By the way, it's my all time favorite movie!!!

Edited by Clawfreak, 13 August 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[jmckinnon316]

Ok John... "I'm your Huckleberry" what movie is that from and no help from anyone else and we can work something out for my extra purple 60...Deal? By the way, it's my all time favorite movie!!!

Gotta be Tombstone!

Would you swap the Purple 60 for one of these T-Shirts?

http://www.threadless.com/submission/111769/I_m_your_huckleberry/showmore,designs

Lol!

Lets work something out!

[Clawfreak]

Gotta be Tombstone!

Would you swap the Purple 60 for one of these T-Shirts?

http://www.threadles...howmore,designs

Lol!

Lets work something out!

LMAO!! Damn Google!! You don't know westerns in UK!! LOL
Emailing now....

[jmckinnon316]

LMAO!! Damn Google!! You don't know westerns in UK!! LOL
Emailing now....

Ah you gotta be kiddin' me - we love westerns!

I don't know if they count as real westerns but anything with Clint Eastwood, John Wayne + The Magnificent 7 is all good in my book!!!

Oh oh and 'Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.......'




J