55 replies to this topic

[Soupie]

I have two questions:

Members here at LRG collect a range of different toy lines and toy styles. My toy interests over the years have boiled down to mono-colored mini-figures. That is to say, toy figures that are generally no taller than 3", non-articulated, and cast in a single color.

In Japan, such figures are referred to as keshi/keshigomu. However, in the West, as this style of toy figure is not nearly as popular as it is in Japan, there isn't a popularized term for this type of figure. I suppose one could refer to M.U.S.C.L.E. or M.I.M.P. as keshi, but I think the term keshi is best reserved for figures coming exclusively from Japan.

Ever since I started my blog Toypedia, I've been searching for a Western term to describe these "Western keshi" figures. In fact, I even considered using the term "Weshi."

I've noticed around the interwebs that the simple term minifigure is most commonly used to refer to LEGO figures. And if not LEGO figures, other small, painted, and articulated figures such as MASK and SW Galactic Heroes. So, when someone is specifically referring to mono-colored mini-figures, they can't simply use the term minifigure.

Anyhow, I'm curious what terms you might prefer or that you've heard other people use. I just recently saw that LRG member 1313 used the simple term "mono" to refer to these figures and Fuzzbuster use the term "monofig."

(Obviously, only those who appreciate the superiority that is mono-mini figures need participate. )

Second question: These figures are made of all different types of plastic/rubber. I've heard all kinds of terms used to describe these different materials: rubber, vinyl, PVC, plastic, etc.

Which terms are correct and to which toy lines should they be applied? For example, what is the correct term for the material MUSCLEs are made out of? How about Kinkeshi? How about MIMP and Cheap Toys?

Thanks!

[Clawfreak]

In Pennsylvania, I think they are refered to Pimps instead of Mimps!!

Edited by jlspeth, 03 February 2011 - 12:50 PM.

[Ericnilla]

I have a tendency of calling them Mini-Mono's when referring to all similar figures.

[Soupie]

@ Veers I think there are enough mono-colored, non-articulated, 3" tall or under toy lines out there to warrant a name distinguishing them from other mini figures. There may not be as many such toy lines as there are in Japan, but theyre out there. Also, don't confuse multi-part with articulated. As for q-tip, I have actually used the term "MUSCLE-like" quite a bit which is pretty similar.

Also, I'm confused about resin now. Rampage toy's MUSCLE figs were resin and super hard, but I though HB's figs were rubbery...

@ jlspeth I just realized that I have always pronounced MIMPS as MIPS, haha.

@ Eric I actually use the similar but different term mono-mini.

[Soupie]

As for resin/rubber, the point wasn't the seller but rather that material should be considered - but not become exclusionary. For example, there are plenty of buyers and sellers of LRG's that aren't rubber. So while we love the LRG board, the name doesn't actually encompass all of the figures.

Oh, I see. Yeah, I personally don't include plastic type in my definition, just the three: color, size, and non-articulated. Even Japanese keshi can be found in different types of rubber, though I think the vast majority are rubbery.

And just to be clear, my questions about materials was distinct from the Western keshi term question. But resin is one of the materials I'm curious about. Can there be both brittle and rubbery resins? When is something resin, PVC, rubber, plastic, or vinyl?

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Well, the 'Q-Tip' term for toys or caricatured collectibles seems to be 'Figurine'. Mono colored, painted, articulated, glass, rubber, plastic. They are all Figurines.

Then you have your break downs.

Action Figures - Features Articulation and or Gimmicks
Miniatures - Are a non standard scale representation of an otherwise large item, and may or may not be painted.
Statuettes - (some miniatures could also be statuettes) Generally of a larger scale than miniatures, but smaller scale than Statues, but are 3 dimensional and made of many different materials.

Then you have some less general combos of these. These terms are current and usually collector base specific.

Mini-Figures - Action Figures of a non standard scale. ie: Dino Riders, Mask, Battle Beasts, etc.
Stactions - Statuettes that contain minimal articulation and or gimmicks. ie: Swivel arms, light up eyes, etc.


Since Miniatures can in affect also be statuettes, and statuettes, if small in scale also be considered miniatures; the fine line becomes very vague.

So as collectors we have to set a visible and physical barrier. Although Statuettes could be made of plastic, typically if it is a small scale item, we generalize it into the miniatures category. The same could be said for stactions being generalized into Action Figures. However Statuettes that are plastic and possess no form of articulation or gimmick, but are of the standard scale still remain Statuettes.

I've personally always accepted the term Miniatures to include our hobby, and one could argue that Battle Beasts and other small scaled mini-figures could be simply Miniatures. Since the hobby of miniatures is an.....err.. miniature group, we could thus exclude certain material forms from the criteria. Wood, Glass, ceramic, or other brittle materials that are not 'Play Worthy' materials. Plastics/Resins/Rubbers seem to be the standards.

Miniatures seems to be the commercially preferred term as well.
But you could thus break Miniatures into multiple categories that would suffice, and also be less confusing.

Non-Painted - miniatures made of a single colored material
Painted - miniatures that are painted and or detailed in some manner excluding the color of materials used.
Multi-Colored - miniatures that are produced in a mixed color (ie: Marbles for color example.) and or multiple adhered parts made in different colors and or mixed colors.

[Krangala]

I've heard the term "Static Figures" used.....which I kind of like.

Static as in "Static posed", or unarticulated, but also Static and Statue share the same root, so it's quite fitting.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

And just to be clear, my questions about materials was distinct from the Western keshi term question. But resin is one of the materials I'm curious about. Can there be both brittle and rubbery resins? When is something resin, PVC, rubber, plastic, or vinyl?

Yes, Resin can be brittle and or very strong. It depends on the mixture, as all your stated materials, with the exception of Rubber, are typically a kind of resin.

The term as defined: (Dictionary.com)

Resin: any of a class of nonvolatile, solid or semisolid organic substances, as copal or mastic, that consist of amorphous mixtures of carboxylic acids and are obtained directly from certain plants as exudations or prepared by polymerization of simple molecules: used in medicine and in the making of varnishes and plastics.

Edited by Universal Ruler Supreme, 04 February 2011 - 03:06 AM.

[Soupie]

Okay, we've got a couple slang and technical terms listed so far. Personally, I find the general term minifigure/mini-figure suitable for referring to all figures standing 3" tall or smaller. This includes painted/unpainted, articulated/unarticulated, and all material types.

What I'm looking for here is a specialized term that refers to mini-figures that are only non-painted and non-articulated. Statuette and Static Figure would cover the non-articulated criterion, but would not address the non-painted (or mono-colored) criterion.

There doesn't appear to be a technical Western term for this tiny subclass of mini-figure. I'm tempted to say that the Japanese term Keshi is probably the best term to use, even for Western mini-figures, but over at CTL -- which is probably the largest toy site dedicated solely to this subclass of mini-figures -- the term Keshi doesn't seem to be used too frequently. I suppose it just seems too odd to apply it to Western mini-figures. Furthermore, many Western mini-figures that are non-articulated and mono-colored are not made of rubber like Japanese keshi.

I'm still on the hunt for a good slang term. I kind of like "mono," but I don't know if it's descriptive enough. On the other hand, the mono-color is perhaps the most important criterion of the three setting this subclass apart from all others.

Materials

As for the materials, I'm still confused about resins. Here's a definition I pulled off the web:

Resin: A term commonly used within the industry that refers to the raw materials used by PVC extruders to produce vinyl window profiles.

PVC and vinyl...

I'm now thinking there are three main types of mini-figure materials:

• Resin/Plastic/PVC (M.U.S.C.L.E.)
• Vinyl (Example?)
• Rubber (Transformer Decoys)

Not to mention, I believe I've often heard the term "soft" vinyl. Should vinyl actually be in the same category as resin/plastic/PVC?

Edited by Soupie, 04 February 2011 - 07:50 AM.

[TheOrgg]

I'll cite the uncitable source here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keshi

This apparently was written by someone who is Japanese, or at least it reads as though it was.

Also, there is a catagory called 'Keshi' on Wikipedia, with only the one oddity of there not being a specific Handful of Heros page for the HoH figures.

http://en.wikipedia..../Category:Keshi

Within this catagory are MUSCLES, Battle Beasts, and Kinkeshi.

I find the word 'Keshi' to be a fine vocabulary term for the figures we all collect. If you mean to differentiate, 'Japanese Keshi' and 'Western Keshi' seems to work fairly well to me.

However, when asked about my hobbies by a girl who hasn't shown any anime/manga interest, I sometimes will say I am a small, non-articulated sculpture enthusiast. If she smiles, she's probably worth the effort of talking.

I've also called them 'minature figures' before in conversation when someone spots one of the figures. One girl was so interested, I dug out my full collection of MUSCLES for her to look at.

[Soupie]

I like it!

I'll cite the uncitable source here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keshi

This apparently was written by someone who is Japanese, or at least it reads as though it was.

Wow, that entry has been vastly expanded upon since last I read it. Yes, indeed, I'm beginning to think more and more that keshi does seem to be the best term for this style of minifigure. And I think you're right, Orgg, that simply slapping "Western" or "Japanese" in front when needed is sufficient.

The Wiki entry points out that some Japanese keshi use plastic parts (this is new to the entry) so it's true that the material of which these minfigures are made is not a crucial criterion. I think it's interesting that the definition didn't mention anything about articulation though I think it's generally accepted that this would be part of the criterion as most keshi, being rubber, lack articulation. Also, it seems that -- considering dekakeshi -- size probably isn't super important either. I'd say the order of importance of criterion goes like this:

1) Mono-Colored
2) Non-Articulated
3) Miniature Scale

Qualifiers might be that most Japanese keshi are made of rubber and most Western keshi are made of plastic. Furthermore, most keshi, both Japanese and Western, are minifigures (i.e. 3" tall or smaller) but certainly not all.

Edited by Soupie, 04 February 2011 - 11:02 AM.

[Soupie]

Someone over at eBay posted this helpful (?) explanation of plastic/rubber types:

SOFT PLASTIC or HARD PLASTIC

I see many, many sellers confused by the general terms, "soft plastic" and "hard plastic"

HARD PLASTIC - The term usually refers to polystyrene (or similiar) brittle plastic. Hard plastic would be like the plastic of a model kit. It breaks if bent. A BIC pen case is hard plastic. Your HP printer body/case is hard plastic. If dropped on a hard surface, it makes a 'click' or 'tink' sound. (Bakelite is an early hard plastic. It usually relates to 1930's-40's, collectibles and jewelry and is often considered more desirable.)

SOFT PLASTIC - The term refers to polyethylene (or similar) soft plastic. Most toy soldiers in the 60's through today are made from 'soft plastic'. The plastic can bend or is somewhat flexible*. If you drop soft plastic on a hard surface, it will make a muted thump-like sound. Soft plastic usually floats in water. Also, soft plastic usually smells like plastic. *(The newer soft plastics tend to be more brittle than the 50's and 60's. The plastic stiffness can quickly identify a toy as post 60's. Some older 'soft' plastics of the 50's and 60's become brittle over the years and easily break; i.e. "The MPC curse". )

The term 'plastic' is a general term.

There are many 'forms' of hard plastic such as acetates, celluloids, resins etc.

There are also many 'forms' of soft plastic such as rubber, all types of "poly's", acetates etc.

There is a big difference. Many sellers use the description, HARD PLASTIC to influence sales. (Hard plastics tend to be more valuable.) And DON'T get me started on rubber soldiers vs vinyl vs soft plastic!......This subject clearly has many people stumped!

I offer the following as a guide: 1930's Auburn Rubber soldiers were made of rubber. (In the 50's Auburn soldiers were produced in vinyl and later, as most toy soldiers from the late 50's, were finally produced in polyethylene/soft plastic.). To make it more confusing; Auburn vinyl toys (of the 50's) are often generically described as rubber. Rubber smells like rubber. Vinyl smells like your old beach ball or air matress. Early 50's Marx 45mm and 60mm soldiers were produced in vinyl; then in soft plastic in the later 50's through the early 70's. Somewhere around the mid 70's through the mid 80's most soft plastic/polyethelyne became more stiff and brittle as the plastic composition changed. Although still a soft plastic these later issued soldiers can easily be identified as late 20th century. The 90's Marx playset reissues all have the stiffer soft plastic soldiers. In the Marx Battleground reissue from the 90's the (ex MPC!) German soldiers are very brittle and can easily break. These are still considered soft plastic.

Many old toy's wheels were made of rubber from the 30's into the 60's. Model car kits like the old AMT kits had poly-vinyl wheels. Many times you will see melt-marks on the car parts where the polyvinyl/soft plastic tires have reacted to the polystyrene/hard plastic parts. On many remote control toys you may find small melt-marks where the remote line has been stored against the plastic body. That is where those little marks come from on so many toys if you haven't figured it out yet.

I appreciate your comments and offer my best regards to all!

SecretMonkey

c 2006 c 2007 c 2008

[TheOrgg]

Doesn't 'Deka' mean 'ten times?'

The dekakeshi are 'ten times' the size of a keshi or less...

They're kinda the opposite of scaled minatures like you see with toys based on cars or pornographic stars.

[Soupie]

Doesn't 'Deka' mean 'ten times?'

The dekakeshi are 'ten times' the size of a keshi or less...

They're kinda the opposite of scaled minatures like you see with toys based on cars or pornographic stars.

Ah, yes, okay, so small size is a criterion of keshi, hence the "deka" prefix. Gotcha.

[Ericnilla]

The way i'd see it is Keshi is the General Term for all... and something like Deka Keshi would be relating to the specific type. Like when describing a car; a car is a car, but then there are sports cars, mini cars, electric, diesel... etc, to describe a specific type.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

So you guys are bent on borrowing the term Keshi? I just don't get it. Never really cared about that word. There just isn't anything relate-able or nostalgic about it for Western collectors. And calling our figures erasers instead just doesn't work.

Vinyl is also a kind of resin. All resins share a familiar part, from what I understand an organic compound, but the other part is often different. The original Keshi Gomu, if I remember, were a Vinyl Chloride based material, and not really a Rubber.

So a keshi would have been resin based figures, using Vinyl Chloride + Whatever compound mixed with it to produce the plastic resin. I recall reading the larger Kinkeshi being referred to as Vinyl Chloride Dolls.

I don't even think they make figures out of rubber anymore. Rubber often has a very distinct odor that can be strong, and a little unpleasant. I wonder if they make anything from Rubber/Resin mixes.

[Soupie]

So you guys are bent on borrowing the term Keshi? I just don't get it. Never really cared about that word. There just isn't anything relate-able or nostalgic about it for Western collectors.

That's just it, I agree with this point too. Most Western toy collectors, even minifigure collectors, won't recognize that word at all. And like I said, the guys over at CTL who only collect mono-colored mini-figures don't seem to use the word keshi, even though they are all familiar with it.

The reality is this subclass of minifigure has just never garnered enough attention to get it's own name. And like Veers said, nothing has really just bubbled to the surface and stuck. I'm trying to get the ball rolling with this thread. I have an idea that might help a little that I'll share in a minute.

As to the vinyl/rubber/plastic conundrum, the guy from eBay I quoted above said this:

Many old toy's wheels were made of rubber from the 30's into the 60's. Model car kits like the old AMT kits had poly-vinyl wheels. Many times you will see melt-marks on the car parts where the polyvinyl/soft plastic tires have reacted to the polystyrene/hard plastic parts.

Is the old school keshi "rubber" really poly-vinyl? I just don't know, but I'd love to.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

You may be onto something there with the polyvinyl. As keshi tend to react to the harder plastics like fishing worms and the like do.

I have a feeling there is a common, or vastly similar, part used in the construction of these softer resin combines that react harshly to other harder ones. I can understand the defining and physical differences of these resins, but I'm not a chemist, so it escapes me further.

If you were wondering also, though it is somewhat off topic but helps with the resin thing we have been discussing, that the term Resin is mostly associated with Statues or Statuette collectibles, and not with toys or figures. I believe this is due to the fact that the resins for statuettes are typically mixed and poured on site, where as toys are typically made from prefabricated pellets that are then softened and injected.

Now back on to the Keshi term. Is the term used specifically for non-painted Keshi? As we know some keshi were sold factory painted. Are these still called Keshi? As I recall that Japanese collectors have often referred to M.U.S.C.L.E as Keshi, despite the differences in materials used, or lack of knowledge there of.

Anyway, if painted keshi are still grouped into the keshi group, it would place a hole, although a slight one, in your goal for a specific mono-colored miniatures term. Maybe we should take Eric's suggestion and then meet at the difference and call em Monis.

[Soupie]

The painted keshi question is a good one. I believe, but could be totally wrong, that (non-articulated) painted mini-figures are called Gashapon in Japan.

[jkaris]

I've always been particular to the acronym LRG's myself.

[Soupie]

The figures that we love! They are:

1) Mono-Colored,
2) Non-Articulated, and
3) Miniature Scale

It's the most sublime toy form in the toy universe, but what the hell is it called? Is it mono, mono-mini, mini-mono, mono-colored mini-figure, monochromatic minifigure, minifigure, keshi, Western keshi, Weshi, minifig, mono minifig, etc.

In Japan this subclass of minifigure is known simply as keshigomu or keshi. But in the Western world, there is no agreed upon term to refer to this beautiful style of toy figure. I'd love to find one!


Japanese Keshi


Western Keshi (?)

What term do you prefer? What term best captures the awesomeness of these special minifigures?

(I wanted to start a new thread with this, but I figured the mods might frown upon it. Hopefully people still see it buried down here.)

Edited by Soupie, 04 February 2011 - 08:28 PM.

[Soupie]

I've always been particular to the acronym LRG's myself.

Ha, yes, LRG is very catchy and rolls off the tongue, but LRG is more of an umbrella term for all kinds of miniature figures including Battle Beasts, Gormiti, Trash Bag Bunch, and MUSCLE.

[imperfecz]

My 5 year old refers to them as keshi. If you guys change it you might really screw up his OCD tendencies....