385 replies to this topic

[matthewf1tz]

But I believe these were not just your ordinary bootlegs.  I think that the company who made Exogini GiG, didn't rip them off, but simply purchased the molds from Bandai or Mattel.

this is great stuff!

Has anyone ever tried to contact GiG to confirm how they got the sculpts? It's a long shot but there may still be records...

If no-one has are there any Italian speaking members out there who would do it? If not I will try in English but I spoke to URS and he thought an Italian speaker would be better and I agree

www.gigworld.it

I have the customer care email if any Italian speakers are interested please PM me

[mind_domain]

hi people..I'm Italian...I have contacted gig some years ago (me with other exogini collectors including Labirino)...We get only one answer: I asked if they'll never rerelease exogini series and the answer was..no :^(
I have to say that the todays gig is not the gig of the 80's...
Today gig is owned by another company: giochi preziosi and the hope to get answers about old exogini are really really few..that's all people :^(

Edited by mind_domain, 09 May 2006 - 08:56 AM.

[mind_domain]

another cool thing about exogini is that in the year of their release (87-88)
there was aviable some non-exogini scuplts in the chips bag..
read this:
http://www.exogini.com/patatine.htmù
they are small like exogini but the copyright on they backs are a little viewable

Edited by mind_domain, 09 May 2006 - 09:02 AM.

[Soupie]

Hm, check it out. Three sets of bootlegs that appear to consist of the same figures:

These Exoginis and these

Alien Wrestlers and Future Man bootlegs.

They all seem to be from trees within Kinnikuman parts 7 and 8.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Well, I think that all three lines, aside from exogini, were probably made by the same factory. If I'm correct they were all made in Taiwan and usually consist of the same kind plastic.

[mind_domain]

Hm, check it out. Three sets of bootlegs that appear to consist of the same figures:

These Exoginis and these

Alien Wrestlers and Future Man bootlegs.

They all seem to be from trees within Kinnikuman parts 7 and 8.

alien wrestler and future men are smaller than muscle?
exogini of patatine are smaller...

[Soupie]

alien wrestler and future men are smaller than muscle?
exogini of patatine are smaller...

I own several of the Future Man figures, and I believe they're smaller. I'm not sure about the Alien Wrestler figures, but my guess is that they are.

Personally, I believe this indicates that their molds were made from mass produced kinnikuman figures.

I also believe this is why the 2nd and 3rd series of painted reissues are all smaller. The first painted series, which is made of the same plastic as series two and three, is the same size as the original kinnikuman -- so I don't think it was the plastic that caused them to be smaller.

However, in other cases, like Exogini, I realize the size difference may stem from a plastic that shrinks.

On the other hand, what we seem to find is that, generally, kinnikuman figures made by Bandai are all the same size and tend to be grouped by trees.

While kinnikuman figures made by other companies tend to be smaller and not grouped by trees.

(Furthermore, as Matthew pointed out, Naochin has discovered at least one kinnikuman sculpt in two sizes. As each figure seems to be made of the same plastic, the size difference appears to stem from the mold each was made from.)

I'm wondering about the size of Exogini figures that come from part two, trees 1 and 2. Wouldn't it be fascinating if they were the same size as regular kinnikuman?

[mind_domain]

I think exogini are smaller because gig (or another company) at the time took some japanese or usa figures and made the mold directly from these figures..this can explain why they are smaller (often final produced figure is smaller than the original one who was used to made the mold)...If gig had used the original (bandai/japanese) molds probably exogini would be the same size of kinnikuman...today I still like exogini because I grew up whit them but I really prefer -first- kinnikuman ( I like that rubber material) and then muscle (they are too much 'hard' form me)...exogini are too much small compared to the 'original ones' and often some detail are missed:
http://www.exogini.c..._differenze.htm
for exogini colors I have to say that I prefer the firs series (clear orange, green,fuxia and flesh) It was a good idea by Gig company..!
the second colors series (black, white, blue, gray) are less cool for me...but there is the purple variant that is goregous!
we have to consider that is unknow who made and stole for first kinnikuman/muscle mold to use them in europe...infact we have exogini in Italy by gig, cosmix in france by el greco (el.greco probably is a greek factory owned by gig), exogini in greece, and Holland exogini by otto simon...
so who made them for first? each european country got his different colors line,,all european country used the same factory to do them?
this is really hard to discover!

Edited by mind_domain, 10 May 2006 - 07:08 AM.

[mind_domain]

there is to say that greek ones are made of an harder plastic than exogini one..
here is some photo I made some days ago that will help you to understeand what I said..enjoy!:

http://i48.photobuck...orangeurope.jpg

http://i48.photobuck.../orangediff.jpg

holland ones:
http://i48.photobuck...andinvasion.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...on/holland4.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...n/greendiff.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...greekyellow.jpg

greek ones:
http://i48.photobuck...eekinvasion.jpg

http://i48.photobuck.../greekdoppi.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...reekcolors3.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...reekcolors2.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...greekcolors.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...tion/fuxias.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...fuxiagreek2.jpg

http://i48.photobuck.../fuxiagreek.jpg

[mind_domain]

french packages:
http://i48.photobuck...ion/cosmixe.jpg

http://i48.photobuck...xcollection.jpg

exogini, by otto simon, holland:
http://i48.photobuck...oserie1otto.jpg
http://i48.photobuck...1ottoaperto.jpg

and italian bag:
http://i48.photobuck.../exoserie1a.jpg

and a factory case of exogini can:
http://i48.photobuck...labarattoli.jpg

Edited by mind_domain, 10 May 2006 - 06:39 AM.

[mind_domain]

now you understeand why they was called, here in Italy, Exogini: the mysterious aliens !

[mind_domain]

and for the plastic that shrink, here in Italy we have a case of a blu variant...
http://www.exogini.c...ariante_blu.htm
as you can see the one on the right is smaller than the other one on the left..this is caused probably by a plastic that shrink (the color of the small one is also different, much light and is not 'metalized' )

[gilgar]

Exogini/Cosmix likely made their own molds since they're essentially bootlegs.  It is possible they could have got hold of old Bandai molds ala the Argentinian Muky versions of Hot Wheels cars rumored to be made from old Hot Wheels molds.

As I recall, Exogini.com shows them all.

It is very possible that Mattel or Bandai sold obsolete molds to GIG, it was done with early Hot Wheels. According to this site Joe's Diecast Mattel sold obsolete molds of early Hot Wheels cars to an Argentine company called MUKY which produced cheap knockoffs of early Hot Wheels cars:

Muky diecast’s history begins during the 1970s. According to our sources, it was then when two brothers that were living in California at that time, had bought from Hot Wheels several molds that were obsolete to the company and had latter brought them to Argentina and began to produce this tiny marvels called Muky.

[Soupie]

It is possible they could have got hold of old Bandai molds ala the Argentinian Muky versions of Hot Wheels cars rumored to be made from old Hot Wheels molds.

In the case of Hot Wheels/bootlegs, a difference in material would make a big difference. For instance, metal versus plastic.

However, in the case of Exogini/kinkeshi, the difference in size/quality is more likely due to the molds that were used.

In other words, because all Exogini appear to be smaller and of lesser quality, it's likely they were made from molds that were smaller and of lesser quality.

On the other hand, though, the fact that all of part two, trees one and two sans the Non-MUSCLE sculpts were made into Exogini is interesting.

But if the original Bandai molds were used, why are the figures smaller and of lesser quality?

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Well, their injection machines may not have been compatible with the molds that Mattel and Bandai were using. So as I stated earlier, if most of the sculpts were damaged, but some were usable, they may have made their own molds from the figures that were still left. They could have cast figures with a type of clay or latex, which would probably have caused the figures to lose some detail. Then they could have made casts and then placed figures into new Molds that would be compatible with their machines. So the figures would have become smaller, and less detailed by the final product. Also they would have wanted to remove the Bandai Trademarks. Does that sort of make sense?

Edited by Universal Ruler Supreme, 10 May 2006 - 11:08 AM.

[Soupie]

I'm certainly not an expert, but I think most molds designed for mass production would be compatable with injection molding machines used for mass production. The reason being that an injection molding machines must be able to handle many different sizes of molds.

And if we assume the Bandai molds were not compatable, I don't think a company would bother purchasing them.

What's more, Bandai did reuse some of their molds to make the reissues after 1987, including, perhaps, the first painted series. Are any of the reissued Bandai sculpts the same as those used in the Exogini line released in 1987? If so, this would indicate that Bandai had not sold its molds.

Despite the fact that all of part two sans the 3 Non-MUSCLE sculpts (which is bizarre I do admit -- especially the fact that the 3 Non-MUSCLE sculpts are missing) was made into Exogini, I think it's more likely that all the Exogini were made from bootlegged molds.

[Soupie]

Okay, here are the two sets in question:

Exogini -- 1987 & Bandai 1999 Reissues

They share 5 figures in common:

070, 078, and 091 -- Part Six, Tree One

149 -- Part Eight, Tree One

110 -- Part Fourteen, Tree Two

The Bandai 1999 reissue set was definitely made using the original molds -- the tree patterns are there, the figures are the same size, and it was released by Bandai (but the trade marks are different!).

As they were made several years after Exogini, it seems that Exogini were made from bootlegged molds -- not the originals (because Bandai obviously still had them as evidenced by the reissued set).

Interestingly, no sculpts from part two appear in the Bandai 1999 reissue! However, some of the Banepresto figures are from part two and may have been made by Bandai...

Ultimate conclusion... Exogini were all made from non-Bandai molds. (Except maybe for the part two figures...)

[TheOrgg]

This isn't related to the Super Rares, but I did see an interesting thing at a grocery store earlier today.

I passed a blister pack of twelve figures of MUSCLE size, so obviously I looked at it.

It wasn't MUSCLE, but it was king-kong cash in inspired; I had seen the sculpts of the dinosaur and ape figures in vending machines a long time ago.

What would happen if someone put that grow stuff in MUSCLE molds?

Do you think this kind of thing is out there?

[Soupie]

Banpresto make re-issue 3 packs consisting of MUSCLE sculpt figures and Part 91-2 re-issues.
Size is the same as their kinkeshi or MUSCLE counterparts.
Trademark is the standard indented YSNT  or YSNT B

Jkaris or Arforbes,

Were these figures made in colors, too? I have a redish-orange MUSCLE sculpt Niku that I just picked up from Arforbes.

It's not a regular Kinkeshi -- color and plastic are different -- but it has the exact same markings as MUSCLE Niku and Kinkeshi Niku.

The only reissue set I know of that has the Niku sculpt is the Banpresto set.

[jkaris]

Banpresto make re-issue 3 packs consisting of MUSCLE sculpt figures and Part 91-2 re-issues.
Size is the same as their kinkeshi or MUSCLE counterparts.
Trademark is the standard indented YSNT  or YSNT B

Jkaris or Arforbes,

Were these figures made in colors, too? I have a redish-orange MUSCLE sculpt Niku that I just picked up from Arforbes.

It's not a regular Kinkeshi -- color and plastic are different -- but it has the exact same markings as MUSCLE Niku and Kinkeshi Niku.

The only reissue set I know of that has the Niku sculpt is the Banpresto set.

Yes, they were in colors too. The Niku was in the Yutaka painted series also.

[Soupie]

Back to the drawing board!



Although, it is interesting that the Geronimo sculpt does appear in the painted re-issue sets. However, I think we determined that it was slightly smaller than the original, right?

See attached.

Attached Files

•  painted_kin.jpg   49.27K   31 downloads

[Soupie]

Let's take a look at the current super rare MUSCLE (Non-Poster MUSCLEs) origin theories. I've divided them into two sections:

Allow for a colored SR:

4) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs were released only in Canada.

3) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs were exculsive figures available via the Quik Promotion.

5) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are the result of a miscommunication between Bandai Japan and Mattel America.

6) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs aren’t real MUSCLEs.

7) Rather than lumping all the Non-Poster MUSCLEs together, each must be approached on an individual basis, or at least by the Kinnikuman Parts they belong to. (In other words, although one of these listed theories may not apply to all of the Non-Poster MUSCLEs, one theory may correctly explain the origin of one or two of the Non-Poster MUSCLEs, while a seperate theory may explain the origin of the others.)

9) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are really Japanese Kinnikuman or some type of Japanese Kinkeshi that were sold in Japan that happen to be made of MUSCLE plastic.

14) The Non-MUSCLE sculpts are a result of a Mattel/Bandia licensing issue, resulting in the Non-MUSCLE sculpts not being made into MUSCLEs. However, mistakes were made, allowing some Non-Poster MUSCLEs to be found as MUSCLEs.

Do not allow for a colored SR (Assuming colored MUSCLEs were not made until 1986/87):

1) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are regular MUSCLEs that were recalled due to small parts.

2) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are MUSCLEs that were produced as prototypes or salesman samples.

8) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are the result of a second wave of MUSCLEs that was quickly replaced by a second wave consisting of colored MUSCLEs.

10) There is a high probability that MUSCLEs and Kinkeshi scupts belonging to parts 15-26 were being produced at the same time, which could somehow account for Non-Poster MUSCLEs being produced in MUSCLE plastic.

11) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are figures produced at the beginning of the line when Bandai and Mattel planned on releasing all Kinnukuman scupts as MUSCLEs. Later, it was decided not to make every sculpt into a MUSCLE.

12) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs and Non-MUSCLE sculpts are the result of molds damaged before, or during, MUSCLE production.

13) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs and Non-MUSCLE sculpts are the result of molds being plugged due to complications with the MUSCLE plastic flowing to them and filling them properly.

At this point, I'm thinking it is a combination of Theory 5 and Theory 14.

[Kevin Mayle]

I've got every issue of Toyfare and I can't remember ever reading about a toyline that had a figure so rare that there was only one example in existence of it unless it was a prototype of an unreleased figure. Now MUSCLE seems to fall into it's own category because they are what you could consider "Official Bootlegs" since they are just copies of some of the figures of an already released toyline. The only way that kind of example could correlate with another toyline would be like action figures that are released years later with new paint applications, new casting materials, or new, slight alterations, like the GI Joe line. And in those cases I still haven't been able to come across any figures so rare that there is only one in existence unless it was a non-production prototype. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, there could be MUSCLE Super Rares of every non-muscle sculpt and SRs in different colors, but there probably not going to be too many ever found of any individual figure. That's probably pretty obvious to everybody but I also think if there was no AKIA anymore, the SRs would lose all value because those that have them wouldn't really have our tiny community of like minded fans to brag to, and with relatively few "new" M.U.S.C.L.E. fans, I'd say in about 10 to 15 years the SRs will have little value to more than half a dozen people in the world. Kind of a neat little novelty with an interesting mystery about them for right now, but a horrible investment for the near future.

[gilgar]

Soupie, you mentioned they could be a part of a Nestles promotion but how about just a promotion/giveaway in general. Fistful of Power color variants were given away at various events. Had eBay not existed (like in the 80's) most of these would have been thrown away or lost in the bottom of toychests. As it is, not too many of the FOP variants pop up on eBay and likely never will.

Maybe the SR's (not including the 11 which were likely a one off proto) were part of a give away(s) at an event(s) either in stores or a toy show. There were likely quite a few although nowhere close to the numbers of regular MUSCLE and most were thrown away over time. Perhaps these event(s) only occurred in the New York area which would explain why most of the finds are from there. Those that went on to collect many MUSCLE still have one in their piles whereas those that didn't collect tossed them.