9165 replies to this topic

[wrinty]

Does that mean Ataru used Assist in order to use all those other moves?

[Prometheus13]

that all bring us to one question: Why didn't Kamehame fly to save Terryman instead of climb the mountain?

Because flying only works when they're fighting Kaijuu.

[SoldierAtaru]

Well, Manriki failed to beat Warsman when he was BRAINDEAD. And Warsman pretty much toyed around with him after that (though the plot robe around the scramble vise is pretty ridiculous). I dunno about Motorman, really. He didn't seem very durable.

To tell the truth, the only real reason why Warsman destroyed the first Scramble Vise was simple: he reverted through his "training" into a Brutal Choujin again. The same who did stuff like drank Teapackman, killed Pentagon and vegetablized Ramenman. Brutal Choujin don't care what they do in a match and literally go in with a killing intent. Any Brutal Choujin does that: instead of going with style and technique, they just kill and maim. When Warsman reverted into being a Justice Choujin, he essentially could only really stop Manriki by being captured himself and shorting them out in a double knock-out. Thus, I really can't say that Warsman taking out the Scramble Vise really judges Manriki as a weakling considering that Warsman could have just killed anyone in that phase if he wanted to.

[dylanio21]

Yeah I wish Warsman could just be brutal during some matches, like you'd think saving the life of his friends would be enough to brutalize an opponent.
Also I don't think Warsman could ever be all that important even though he's so awesome, it's the 30 minutes thing....

[Tubba]

To tell the truth, the only real reason why Warsman destroyed the first Scramble Vise was simple: he reverted through his "training" into a Brutal Choujin again. The same who did stuff like drank Teapackman, killed Pentagon and vegetablized Ramenman. Brutal Choujin don't care what they do in a match and literally go in with a killing intent. Any Brutal Choujin does that: instead of going with style and technique, they just kill and maim. When Warsman reverted into being a Justice Choujin, he essentially could only really stop Manriki by being captured himself and shorting them out in a double knock-out. Thus, I really can't say that Warsman taking out the Scramble Vise really judges Manriki as a weakling considering that Warsman could have just killed anyone in that phase if he wanted to.

Uhm... I'm not entirely sure I get you here. The Machineguns killed Neptune King. Terryman killed King the 100 Ton. Kinnikuman killed the God of Intelligence. Chojin kill eachother all the time regardless of allegiance. The fact that Manriki's trademark super-vise could be ripped off just like that is what makes him seem weak. I mean, imagine if he'd faced Buffaloman, they would've been knocked off by a handwave. Had Warsman been "normal" when he faced The Manriki, I doubt the fight would have lasted very long.

(and Warsman being stuck on top of the scramble vise is still utterly ridiculous)

[SoldierAtaru]

Uhm... I'm not entirely sure I get you here. The Machineguns killed Neptune King. Terryman killed King the 100 Ton. Kinnikuman killed the God of Intelligence. Chojin kill eachother all the time regardless of allegiance. The fact that Manriki's trademark super-vise could be ripped off just like that is what makes him seem weak. I mean, imagine if he'd faced Buffaloman, they would've been knocked off by a handwave. Had Warsman been "normal" when he faced The Manriki, I doubt the fight would have lasted very long.

(and Warsman being stuck on top of the scramble vise is still utterly ridiculous)

There is a major difference though: most of the fights you listed involved the Choujin on both sides going at each other at full power without killing intent. Death can occur in a fight but only after the opponent has been worn down beyond his limit or a weakness is found. Brutal Choujin go for the kill from the start, pure and simple. If Warsman wasn't a Brutal Choujin during a period of his "retraining", he would have never just decided to rip off the first Scramble Vise like he did. He would have found another way to fight legally with Manriki and the match would have gone differently. Yeah, Warsman would probably have won, but he wouldn't have just decided to suddenly go and rip off something recklessly that is part of a Choujin body if it weren't for him thinking at the time he was a Brutal Choujin. (regular Choujin do it but usually only after determining it through judgment in a battle, not just "let's just rip off whatever limbs we can to prove a point of how tough I am")

[Tubba]

Perhaps, but doesn't it still strike you as a bit silly that the diamond-crushing scramble vise can be ripped off just like that?

[Evil Lord Proteus]

Perhaps, but doesn't it still strike you as a bit silly that the diamond-crushing scramble vise can be ripped off just like that?

Not to sound like an ass, but most, if not all Japanese storytelling relies heavilly on thrills in the here and now. They tend to say one thing now, then disregard it later or make it of no consequence later, just to make whats going on RIGHT NOW seem more important and exciting. For example, in Dragonball, Raditz said he could move as fast as the speed of light, this was just to make him look like a badass. Then later moving that fast is impressive even at much, much later levels when characters have power levels in the millions, when Raditz had a power level of only 1200.

They just said the Scramble Vice could crush diamonds to make things more exciting. If it couldnt crush a child like Meat, it CERTAINLY couldnt crush Diamonds.

[Tubba]

Not to sound like an ass, but most, if not all Japanese storytelling relies heavilly on thrills in the here and now. They tend to say one thing now, then disregard it later or make it of no consequence later, just to make whats going on RIGHT NOW seem more important and exciting. For example, in Dragonball, Raditz said he could move as fast as the speed of light, this was just to make him look like a badass. Then later moving that fast is impressive even at much, much later levels when characters have power levels in the millions, when Raditz had a power level of only 1200.

They just said the Scramble Vice could crush diamonds to make things more exciting. If it couldnt crush a child like Meat, it CERTAINLY couldnt crush Diamonds.

You don't think I know this? Really?

[SoldierAtaru]

Perhaps, but doesn't it still strike you as a bit silly that the diamond-crushing scramble vise can be ripped off just like that?

Just because it can crush diamonds means nothing honestly. If it was made of diamonds, that's one thing. But the truth was that the Scramble Vise was a prominent part of Manriki's arsenal and Warsman just decided to rip them off immediately because he thought he was a Brutal Choujin who had just gotten finished his training with Mr. Barracuda. If he was a Justice Choujin, Warsman would have used his mind to figure a way to disable the Scramble Vise without just ripping them off like nothing, with maybe ripping them off a last resort or done by Manriki himself after Warsman himself disabled them by a measure. He still defeated them as a Justice Choujin (even if it meant shorting himself out due to his 30 minute limit), but he did so by another means. Thus the difference:

-Justice Choujin: win a match in a fair means using technique and skill
-Brutal Choujin: win a match by ripping an opponent apart

Besides, considering how Warsman was rather abused anyway even though he still did feats like removing one of Buffaloman's horns, it's not like he didn't already have the strength to handle Manriki and just never had the chance to demonstrate it.

[Tubba]

I dunno, I can't say I ever thought of it that way. Only instance I remember is Kinnikuman not breaking Buffaloman's longhorn in the Seven Devils climax.

[SoldierAtaru]

I dunno, I can't say I ever thought of it that way. Only instance I remember is Kinnikuman not breaking Buffaloman's longhorn in the Seven Devils climax.

By the time Suguru fought Buffaloman, he essentially was a puppet for Satan and had his resolve to not lose no matter what. Therefore, when he fought Warsman he wasn't really using all of his resolve and his 10 Million Power...not to mention Warsman was decently known to be powerful then considering he had just been a Choujin Olympics finalist.

[Evil Lord Proteus]

You don't think I know this? Really?

Do you really think you and I are the only ones on this board? Really?

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Warsman was supposed to be super-powerful when he was introduced but he kind of fell back... His greatest achievements are breaking Buffaloman's horn and defeating the weakest member of Team Zebra. Other than that he mostly spent his time dying, didn't he?

Though, he was SUPPOSED to fight Mammothman and I guess they had a lot of confidence in him since Mammothman was obviously very powerful. But I wouldn't put Warsman up there with Robin Mask and Ramenman (from what I've seen the two strongest Idol Chojin), but he's probably stronger than Brocken Jr. and Geronimo. Maybe around Terryman... Though Terryman really only gets to show his true skills (or lack of thereof) against Ashuraman/Sunshine and Neptuneman/Neptune King, and King the 100 ton. His strength mainly seems to be "HI I R AMERIKUN"; As Kamehame said, "I didn't pick you for your fighting skills, but for your youth and guts!". So yeah, Terryman can't really fight, but at least he's young and courageous!

Yes, Warsman was eventually reduced to jobber status, but he's still one of the most formidable/dangerous chojin. Silver Surfer is one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel universe, and yet he's been shown to job on numerous occasions. If the plot calls for someone to lose, then they have to lose. But this shouldn't be used as an indicator of their overall potential.

As for Terryman, he's definitely up there. Ataru even alluded to this, by saying that Brocken Jr. is not quite as powerful as him and Robin Mask. Furthermore, Kinnikuman has never actually defeated him. They fought to a draw on the night of Kinnikuman's wedding.

[Matto]

Do you really think you and I are the only ones on this board? Really?

We're figments of imagination we are.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Ataru is easily the strongest character in the manga alongside Kamehame and Kinnikuman

Akuma Shogun would like to have a word with you XD.

[Evil Lord Proteus]

Akuma Shogun would like to have a word with you XD.

This is true. Akuma Shogun was downright Omnipotent. He only lost because of a combination of a loophole in his resurrecting of his Devil Knights and Buffaloman(who he revived) paralyzing him by putting on his helmet so Akuma Shogun's body formed around him.

[Tubba]

Not neccesarily... First, Kinnikuman got some hits on him (Side Kinniku Buster, for instance). Second, the resurrections were done by Satan, almost certainly. Third, Akuma Shogun isn't really one character, but rather an amalgamation of Goldman and the six Devil Knights. I'd have liked to see Goldman fighting in his original body, personally.

But yeah, Kinnikuman might have lost that one if not for Buffaloman... On the other hand he would've found some other way if Buffaloman hadn't been there, so eh.

[Stecase King]

Akuma Shogun would have never become vulnerable in the first place if anyone besides Kinnikuman were his opponent. The shock of not being able to kill someone as weak as Kinnikuman was what made him start questioning himself to begin with, and therefore what caused his body to start reforming.

[Dai Makai]

This thread is starting to get intelligent. I'm not sure I want this.

Anyways, let's place our bets right now: how many months will it take for Yude to start the final match?

[Evil Lord Proteus]

This thread is starting to get intelligent. I'm not sure I want this.

Anyways, let's place our bets right now: how many months will it take for Yude to start the final match?

The Princess is in another castle?

[Matto]

This thread is starting to get intelligent. I'm not sure I want this.

Oh yes you want this. It's great reading this stuff with buttered popcorn no i am not doing this right now.

Anyways, let's place our bets right now: how many months will it take for Yude to start the final match?

MILLION YEARS

three months at most, give or take. need to find a plot excuse somewhere.

The Princess is in another castle?

Fireballs are so useful for getting that extra 5000 points amirite?

[Tubba]

Akuma Shogun would have never become vulnerable in the first place if anyone besides Kinnikuman were his opponent. The shock of not being able to kill someone as weak as Kinnikuman was what made him start questioning himself to begin with, and therefore what caused his body to start reforming.

What I wonder is why he needed a body from Satan if he had one in the first place.

[Prometheus13]

What I wonder is why he needed a body from Satan if he had one in the first place.

Well, he lost his body and became just a head thousands of years ago, so it'd be pretty hard to reattach it, and it's probably just a bunch of dust now.

[Tubba]

Well, he lost his body and became just a head thousands of years ago, so it'd be pretty hard to reattach it, and it's probably just a bunch of dust now.

Yeah, but he gets his body back during the battle by "doubting himself". That makes it seem like him not having a body was just a tactic to protect himself (fair enough), but having a vulnerable body (he could still change the hardness of it, IIRC) kind of beats lying around waiting an eternity for Satan to give you one.