67 replies to this topic

[Tortle]

^ This reminds me of an off-topic complaint I have about ROTJ. The duel between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor is pretty much pointless because Vader and the Emperor would have died anyway. Lando's mission to the Death Star core was totally independent of the duel, and regardless of how the duel progressed, he still would have blown up the Death Star. I suppose Vader and/or the Emperor could have escaped, but they wouldn't have known to do so. Star Wars apologists will probably conjure up something about them sensing a disturbance in the Force that would tell them in advance of the Death Star's demise, but if that were so, why didn't they realize it before?

[jkaris]

Star Wars apologists will probably conjure up something about them sensing a disturbance in the Force that would tell them in advance of the Death Star's demise, but if that were so, why didn't they realize it before?

Because they were too focused on Luke?

[Ridureyu]

Yeah, that's probably it. Palpatine and Vader being too focused on Luke, that is. of course, without Leia, the shield generators never would have gone down, and either way Anakin's kids bring balance to the Force.


Also, Palpatine and Vader would not have died. They would have escaped like most of the imperial staff was scene doing, and Luke actually did.

[Ridureyu]

And finally, I know the true identity of the Chosen One:

[Personality #9]

Luke doesn’t convince Vader. Vader chooses redemption.

While you do have a point about Vader choosing his own destiny, let's not forget that Luke did in fact rationalize and plead with Anakin/Vader to indeed make the right choice...

Luke's selfless act of refusing to continue the duel with Vader and throw his lightsaber down was his ultimate way of refusing to join the Dark Side which in effect, brought balance to the Force, or so we assume...

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

I just have to bring this up. I watched the movie today with the commentary from Lucas and the Directors on the DVD. 1 hour and 40 minutes into the film Lucas states that Anakin is the one who brings Balance to the force. Just for anyone who happened to ignore the commentary. Check it out and correct me if I'm wrong!

[Personality #9]

I watched the movie today with the commentary from Lucas and the Directors on the DVD. 1 hour and 40 minutes into the film Lucas states that Anakin is the one who brings Balance to the force.

I'm not surprsied to hear that Lucas claims that Anakin was "The Chosen One". I figure he's only saying that now 'cuz of the first three episodes.

The original trilogy points the Luke if you ask me, Anakin/Darth Vader was more of a background plot that happened to finish the storyline off originally.

[Ridureyu]

Also, the duel did matter - the Emperor, if unimpeded by Luke doing his thing, would probably have either A: used the force to influence the battles (unlikely), or B: escaped the Death Star in a shuttle, regrouped, and come back with a better plan to crush the rebellion.

Thanks to what was going on with Luke, Vader, and Palpatine, he actually got KILLED on the Death Star.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Well, if Luke hadn't showed up when he did, as Rid says, the Emperor and Vader wouldn't have had anything better to do. Chances are the Emperor would have either sent Vader to the Endorian Moon to dispatch the rebellion there, or sent him to help dispatch the Rebel Fleet, which would have been unlikely since he started Deathstarring them to....Uh...Well....Death! So it's more likely Vader would have killed all the rebels on the moon. I mean he is Darth Vader. Thus the Rebellion would have been demolished and the Empire would have become even more powerful. So although Lucas claims that Anakin was the Chosen One, If it were not for Luke's interference the Rebellion would more than likely have all been destroyed, and the Sith would have the Galaxy in their clutches.

[Ridureyu]

Also, think about it this way.

When the first Death Star blew up, what happened? They built a better one.

When the second Death Star blew up, the Empire fell. Why? because the friggin' EMPEROR died.

Now, if vader hadn't made the decision to save his son, what would have happened? Living Emperor.

Edited by Ridureyu, 15 January 2006 - 05:18 PM.

[Personality #9]

When the second Death Star blew up, the Empire fell. Why? because the friggin' EMPEROR died.

Now, if vader hadn't made the decision to save his son, what would have happened? Living Emperor.

Well the Emperor only died because of Luke.

Sure, Luke didn't actually kill the Emperor himself, but his plan was to play as a destraction so that the Emperor would remain on the Deathstar when it blew up. The only reason Luke survived was because of Vader turning on his master and killing him.

So it didn't matter what Vader did since Luke already had guranteed that the Emperor would die.

[Ridureyu]

No, not really. Luke had time to drag his dying father out into an escape suttle long after the emperor died. If Palpatine had simply finished frying Luke, he simply would have made his way to an escape shuttle and left when thigns got too bad. In reality, Vader tossed him down a shaft, and he was kind of dead by the time that things went bad.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

You know what I thought was funny? The fact that all the personel on the Deathstar were running by Luke and Vader and none of them stopped to help.

The reason though that Lucas says that Anakin was the chosen one was because he did kill the emperor and brought balance to the force.

[Personality #9]

The reason though that Lucas says that Anakin was the chosen one was because he did kill the emperor and brought balance to the force.

I still say that Luke was more important to the "Balancing of the Force" than Anakin ever was.

It seems to me that Luke made more sacrifices and wiser choices than Anakin ever did. I think Lucas is full of crap.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Full of crap? Yes. Luke was originally the hero of the story. All the chosen one crap didn't come around till episode I. So, what Lucas initially did was make a wonderful story with Luke as the hero, then decided to find a way to make more money by going back in time to when Luke's Pappy was a jedi and tell us how he fell to the dark side. With all honesty Ep's I II and III are totally irrelevant. Chosen one or not all of this is crap.

Lucas by 1995 ------>

[Personality #9]

Full of crap? Yes... With all honesty Ep's I II and III are totally irrelevant. Chosen one or not all of this is crap.

I remember finding out when I was a kid that Lucas was gonna do the prequels. I got so excited and when watching A New Hope there's a scene where Obi-Wan is talking to Luke about Anakin (This scene was also used in some of the previews for Revenge of the Sith). Anyways, whenever I watch that scene, I tend to imagine Anakin being around Luke's age at the time. To this day, it's hard for me to associate what Obi-Wan is talking about there to what Lucas put in The Phantom Menace, it just doesn't seem to jive to me.

So yes URS, I totally agree with you that not only is Lucas full of crap about this whole "Chosen One" nonsense, but that Episodes I-III are completely irrevelant to the actual Star Wars story.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

You know when I would watch ANH as kid when Luke was chillin with Ole Ben. I always pictured Anakin as being Obiwan's age when he said they both fought in the clone wars. Also when Ben mentioned he was a jedi Knight like Lukes father, I always pictured the Jedi Knights as well......Knights! You know with awesome battle suits and light saber swords to back up their force powers. I didn't really think of them as Monkish people. I thought that Yoda and Ben were just old. But then Lucas drops a political bomb on all the mystery and "adventure for the greater good." Knights weren't suppose to be politicians! They were the guys you called in to protect your kingdom in times of war! I never pictured a council or temples or anything. At least Lucas left the conflict of good and evil in the story with Dark and Light side stuff, but in the end the Jedi sound just as bad as the Sith. Am I the only one that feels that way? or has the Shroud of the Dark side fallen over my eyes and clouded my judgment? All of a sudden I feel like slaughtering children. Is that weird?

[Kevin Mayle]

According to the 1974 film Zardoz, Sean Connery is The Chosen One. This film also features many women with Princess Leia's hairdoo.

[Soupie]

I remember finding out when I was a kid that Lucas was gonna do the prequels.

I was a wee lad myself when I heard this from a friend. Damn, that was a long time ago.

Does anyone remember when the rumors, and then the offical news, of the making of the prequels was released?

Talk about good memories: My friend told me on the bus that his grandfather had heard that Lucas was making prequels. I remember I didn't believe him.

Then when I watched ANH the next time, the fact that it is Episode IV made sense. (I still didn't believe him though.)

[Personality #9]

I remember finding out when I was a kid that Lucas was gonna do the prequels.

I was a wee lad myself when I heard this from a friend. Damn, that was a long time ago.

Does anyone remember when the rumors, and then the offical news, of the making of the prequels was released?

Talk about good memories: My friend told me on the bus that his grandfather had heard that Lucas was making prequels. I remember I didn't believe him.

Then when I watched ANH the next time, the fact that it is Episode IV made sense. (I still didn't believe him though.)

My uncle was the one who told me. I was around 9 or 10 at the time and I was very excited.

I had pretty much forgotten about the whole prequel thing until '98 when it was official that Lucas had begun filming.

I remember all the hype and excitment that surrounded the whole deal until the first movie was actually released, then everything pretty much went down the drain from there.

Although I feel that Lucas did a better job overall with Episodes II and III they all pretty much stank for the most part.

Don't know why it bothers me so much, I guess I just feel that so much more could have been done with the storyline.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

According to the 1974 film Zardoz, Sean Connery is The Chosen One. This film also features many women with Princess Leia's hairdoo.

I'm glad I wasn't the only person to have seen this flick. It's one of my favorite cult films. It's one of those movies you never hear of until you stumble across it in the scifi section at your video store.

But back to topic. I remember my brother telling me in the mid 90's around the time when Lucas rereleased the first 3 films. I think it was 94' or 95' I was about 10 myself. I hated CG animation with a passion at that age as well (Power Rangers the Movie). So when Lucas rerereleased the special edition I pretty much had the fear that the prequels would be terrible, but I must admit I gave Lucas the benefit of the doubt. Boy did he let everyone down. What do you think his initial reaction was when he got all those hate letters from the diehard fanatic fans? He probably was like "Oh well! My Movie My Money! Suckers!" I'm just glad I didn't see it in the theater. I waited till it came out on tape. You know I can't even recall if there were any t.v. commercials about episode I.

P.S. I feel like a total moron! There is a stupid chosen one featurette on the extras DVD that I never noticed. So it was kind of pointless for me to mention Lucas saying that Anakin was the chosen one in the commentary.

Edited by Universal Ruler Supreme, 17 January 2006 - 05:25 PM.

[Ridureyu]

Holy crap... I'm not the only one who knows ZARDOZ?!?!?!

[jkaris]

I heard about the prequels when I was in grade school, early 80's.

And as far as the chosen one is concerned, it was introduced in Ep 1 by Lucas and he planned for it to be Anakin, so regardless of what Luke did in 4, 5, or 6, it was moot, since the "chosen one" arc hadn't even been devised yet.

The chosen one is Anakin. Lucas wrote the stories, that's who he made it to be.

[Kevin Mayle]

I remember when Empire was going to come out and Star Wars was rereleased as Episode IV, that this was to let us know we were coming in on the middle of a story and that the Clone Wars that old Ben had mentioned would have taken place during the unfilmed episodes. Fifteen or so years later I saw an old interview in print wherein Lucas spoke of 9 episodes but he hadn't intended on filming episodes one through three or seven through nine. Then I remember when the Special Edition had been announced it was to include long lost footage. I was then excited because I would get to Chewbacca's family and a cantina patron pouring a drink in his head again. I later found out that I was remembering the Holiday Special from when I was four and mixing that with my earliest memories of Star Wars from when I was three. Then all this anti-Special Edition talk came out. How can George change Star Wars and who else is now going to change classic films? But this wasn't new at all. In 1979 Steven Spielberg spent 1.5 million dollars and got the cast back together to film brand new scenes to put in Close Encounters for it's rerelease to theatres in what he called Close Encounters the Special Edition. On a side note when the new King Kong came out I heard a lot of why can't Hollywood ever come up with a new idea. What's with all the remakes. But again, if you go back to 1920's many of the new films were remakes. Books were made into plays, then those were made as films, then those films were remade practically every two years from the 1890's through the advent of sound and color. Back to Star Wars. I think George created a prequel trilogy that was different from everyone's expectations but I don't think he did it for the money and that he doesn't care if a lot of people were disappointed. He has enough money to no longer make that his driving motivation in life. Yeah it's important to him and he knows how to make alot of it, but he's also financially comfortable enough to pursue other passions as well. He originally got into films to make documentaries and has recently said that is what he would like to get back to. In fact he is making 100 documentaries to be included with the upcoming Young Indy DVD set. He is first and foremost an artist and in the entertainment industry. This type of personality is sensitive to feedback. I'm sure he's hurt by the amount of hate there is for the prequels but then again I'm sure he's also a little confused. He said all of the Star Wars films got horrible scathing reviews but were very successful. So he's hearing hate and seeing success. People supposedly having nothing nice to say about his work but yet they go to the films, buy the DVDs, buy the merchandise. At the end of the day he just has to dismiss it and let it go. He did what he wanted, he tried his best, he expressed himself creatively, he was successful and he didn't please everone. As for who is the Chosen One. Neither. It was a prophecy that didn't unfold as specified. But Yoda said "Always clouded is the future." So it would be easy for a prophecy to go awry. Of course the Chosen One could still be Sean Connery.