60 replies to this topic

[Ridureyu]

I think when he said it's "like transformers," he meant in popularity.

[pocketmego]

I honestly believe part of the failure was that Bandai just didn't get what made the original Muscle work in this country. Had those toys had more retro appeal it would probably have pushed the entire line and show forward. Mattel should probably have been involved.

[FANtomCore]

I think the lack of the first series cartoon (Kinnikuman) not being shown in North America back in the age of 80s cartoons, might of had an impact. The UM cartoon was a sequel series and so from a new viewers point-of-view, their was a history that NA viewers knew nothing about. The 80s Muscle toyline was short lived as welll because the NA distributor of the toys decided to omit the cartoon/anime because of the violence level in it. Plus it was just a weird silly cartoon. I believe that the original 80s Muscle toyline as well as both the Ultimate Muscle toyline and cartoon would of fared better if the original Kinnikuman anime was released in North America in English back in the 1980s. But even with the Kinnikuman cartoon omitted in the States, the Muscle franchise was still a moderate success.

[pocketmego]

I think the lack of the first series cartoon (Kinnikuman) not being shown in North America back in the age of 80s cartoons, might of had an impact. The UM cartoon was a sequel series and so from a new viewers point-of-view, their was a history that NA viewers knew nothing about. The 80s Muscle toyline was short lived as welll because the NA distributor of the toys decided to omit the cartoon/anime because of the violence level in it. Plus it was just a weird silly cartoon. I believe that the original 80s Muscle toyline as well as both the Ultimate Muscle toyline and cartoon would of fared better if the original Kinnikuman anime was released in North America in English back in the 1980s. But even with the Kinnikuman cartoon omitted in the States, the Muscle franchise was still a moderate success.

 

 

The funny thing was, I recalled the original Muscle line when this aired here. I wasn't a big fan of UM at the time, but it came on right before Ultraman Tiga. But, I remember watching it and seeing classic Kinikuman characters and saying, "Yeah I know that guy, and i remember him and him and him..." etc.

[FANtomCore]

The funny thing was, I recalled the original Muscle line when this aired here. I wasn't a big fan of UM at the time, but it came on right before Ultraman Tiga. But, I remember watching it and seeing classic Kinikuman characters and saying, "Yeah I know that guy, and i remember him and him and him..." etc.

I'm sure most viewers didn't know anything about their backstories/histories of the various characters, or in some cases what their names or special moves were. There just wasn't any info back then. It was actually rare for a toyline not to come out without a cartoon associated with it back in the 80s, especially when they already had it made in Japan, it just needed to be English dubbed, but I think the NA companies thought American kids wouldn't get the silliness of Kinnikuman, so didn't bother dubbing it. So UM was going to bring a Legacy to the TV that nobody really knew about. So "Ultimate Muscle: The Kinnikuman Legacy" started things off with an omitted Legacy and that is where it went wrong IMO, not to mention the U.S. broadcasting was handled poorly.

[Mars]

I don't really think it "went wrong".  I'm trying to think of other 4kids shows that did better than UM and really the only ones I can think of are TMNT, Winx, and maybe Kirby.  TMNT will be successful no matter what because honestly, what kid doesn't like Ninja turtles.  Kirby had a fan base being a video game and all so it's not surprising it did well.  I think one of the biggest problems was that 4kids was going up against shows like yugioh and pokemon, I remember I could either watch those or UM, that's not a great place to be for UM.

 

Also being marketed towards kids, 4kids has to deal with low attention span.  Sure UM is crazy and fun at first, but new shows come out and kids want to watch that instead.

 

I'm also wondering if perhaps the lack of future storylines had something to do with it.  UM took 2 seasons to get to the end of the Trojan championship, the Manga just ended that arch what, 2-3 years ago?  And after that it would be harder to adapt to a kids story, I mean the generals of hell and stuff like that certainly not children material.

 

I find it hard to say that UM failed, it was pretty successful IMO, just not enough momentum.

[KinnikuGai]

 

 

 

I don't really think it "went wrong".  I'm trying to think of other 4kids shows that did better than UM and really the only ones I can think of are TMNT, Winx, and maybe Kirby.  TMNT will be successful no matter what because honestly, what kid doesn't like Ninja turtles.  Kirby had a fan base being a video game and all so it's not surprising it did well.  I think one of the biggest problems was that 4kids was going up against shows like yugioh and pokemon, I remember I could either watch those or UM, that's not a great place to be for UM.

 

Also being marketed towards kids, 4kids has to deal with low attention span.  Sure UM is crazy and fun at first, but new shows come out and kids want to watch that instead.

 

I'm also wondering if perhaps the lack of future storylines had something to do with it.  UM took 2 seasons to get to the end of the Trojan championship, the Manga just ended that arch what, 2-3 years ago?  And after that it would be harder to adapt to a kids story, I mean the generals of hell and stuff like that certainly not children material.

 

I find it hard to say that UM failed, it was pretty successful IMO, just not enough momentum.

Umm… its Choujin… I really don’t think you’re the one to answer this as your  knowledge  on Kinnikuman is very poor.

 

Why it went wrong is cos they made really bad edits like making Mari and Bibinba   friends,  taking off the kanji of their heads but keeping Mantas and Kinnikumans on whys that? Bad job there.

The list goes on, don’t get me wrong there are parts I love about UM like voice acting  and I will always love it cos that’s how I got in to kinnikuman, BUT it is in no way as good as its manga it can’t even see the line.

So yeah it really could have been better it really should have been more like the Manga

Edited by guy kinniku, 30 July 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[Mars]

Umm… its Choujin… I really don’t think you’re the one to answer this as your  knowledge  on Kinnikuman is very poor.

 

Why it went wrong is cos they made really bad edits like making Mari and Bibinba   friends,  taking off the kanji of their heads but keeping Mantas and Kinnikumans on whys that? Bad job there.

The list goes on, don’t get me wrong there are parts I love about UM like voice acting  and I will always love it cos that’s how I got in to kinnikuman, BUT it is in no way as good as its manga it can’t even see the line.

So yeah it really could have been better it really should have been more like the Manga

Riiiight, being a grammar queen makes you an expert.  Sorry dude.

 

Also I really doubt kids watching the show were like "OMG these two insignificant characters are friends, this show sucks" or "OMG why don't these characters have marks on their foreheads", try thinking like a normal person here.  They kept the marks on mantaro's head because it's part of his character.  How does he get the fire or ultimate muscle w/e you want to call it without that mark lighting up?

 

The biggest difference between the manga and the cartoon was the blood, don't even try to argue that.  There are very minor differences otherwise, as somebody who watched the show first, I knew everything that was going to happen in the manga because the stories were identical.

Edited by Mars, 30 July 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[ironmask]

Guys, play nice.

 

And there is only room for one queen here, and I don't see Freddy Mercury anywhere around...

 

Because, well, he's dead.

[pocketmego]

Honestly, and this is a total personal perspective and only from the 4kids version, Ultimate Muscle starts out strong and quirky. It's funny and has a lot of charm. Then it quickly starts to DRAG. That, is why I think it lost its audience.

[KinnikuGai]

Riiiight, being a grammar queen makes you an expert.  Sorry dude.

 

Also I really doubt kids watching the show were like "OMG these two insignificant characters are friends, this show sucks" or "OMG why don't these characters have marks on their foreheads", try thinking like a normal person here.  They kept the marks on mantaro's head because it's part of his character.  How does he get the fire or ultimate muscle w/e you want to call it without that mark lighting up?

 

The biggest difference between the manga and the cartoon was the blood, don't even try to argue that.  There are very minor differences otherwise, as somebody who watched the show first, I knew everything that was going to happen in the manga because the stories were identical.

 identical ha seeing as

kevin won the choujin Olympics  and the way that kinnikuman was there from the start not just showing up to fight manta the way manta met rinko. And how meat was in it after the HF  And there LOTs and LOTs more where that came from.

 

 

And the way the manga started and the way the anime started I think we all can see that the manga and the anime are not identical so sorry if I don't  take the word of someone who calls them trojins

 

 

 

 

 

Guys, play nice.

 

And there is only room for one queen here, and I don't see Freddy Mercury anywhere around...

 

Because, well, he's dead.

yeah your right it just got to me how he got it so wrong yet try to say he knew his stuff, but it was childish

 of me. and yeah I miss him to

Edited by guy kinniku, 30 July 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[Mars]

 identical ha seeing as

kevin won the choujin Olympics  and the way that kinnikuman was there from the start not just showing up to fight manta the way manta met rinko. And how meat was in it after the HF  And there LOTs and LOTs more where that came from.

 

 

And the way the manga started and the way the anime started I think we all can see that the manga and the anime are not identical so sorry if I don't  take the word of someone who calls them trojins

Yes they are identical seeing how both follow the same story:

Mantaro goes to earth, then gets trained at the HF, beats his dad, fights the dmp, beats the dmp, fights Generation X, fights the gruesome threesome, fight in the choujin olympics.

 

Yes kevin was supposed to win, I don't think kevin beating kid muscle in the last episode of the last season was why the series ended, but hey, I'm sure you think stupid things like that.  Mantaro won because it's a kids show, the good guys always win, and why would you possibly end a show with the hero losing?  It's a good thing you don't write these scripts because then it would be a complete disaster.

 

I'm sure you have more stupid ideas on why the show failed, but honestly they are probably so far fetched you probably should just keep them to yourself.

 

I 100% agree with pocketmego, after a while it just gets repeatitive watching wimpy whiney mantaro winning everything.  It was funny, charming, but it wore off after a while.

[KinnikuGai]

Yes they are identical seeing how both follow the same story:

Mantaro goes to earth, then gets trained at the HF, beats his dad, fights the dmp, beats the dmp, fights Generation X, fights the gruesome threesome, fight in the choujin olympics.

 

Yes kevin was supposed to win, I don't think kevin beating kid muscle in the last episode of the last season was why the series ended, but hey, I'm sure you think stupid things like that.  Mantaro won because it's a kids show, the good guys always win, and why would you possibly end a show with the hero losing?  It's a good thing you don't write these scripts because then it would be a complete disaster.

 

I'm sure you have more stupid ideas on why the show failed, but honestly they are probably so far fetched you probably should just keep them to yourself.

 

I 100% agree with pocketmego, after a while it just gets repeatitive watching wimpy whiney mantaro winning everything.  It was funny, charming, but it wore off after a while.

Yes but  parts of the story are still different do you know what  identical means at all.

 

You have proved my point again of you're low

knowledge  it very shocking, and I like it how you still have not addressed the whole to Trojan. But look at the end of the day kinnikuman is a very big part of my life so i find  odd when someone try's to show knowledge of something they have very little of .

Edited by guy kinniku, 30 July 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Mars]

Yes but  parts of the story are still different do you know what  identical means at all.

 

You have proved my point again of you're low

knowledge  it very shocking, and I like it how you still have not addressed the whole to Trojan. But look at the end of the day kinnikuman is a very big part of my life so i find  odd when someone try's to show knowledge of something they have very little of .

Oh parts of the story are different?  Please tell me which part of the story is different.  And don't give me minor details, I want major plot differences between the two.

 

Here let me help you a little:

Mantaro Sent to HF:

• Mantaro fights that Plus sign guy
• Mantaro Gets picked up for the hercules factory
• Mantaro Trains at the hercules factory and befriends gazelleman and wally, meanwhile terry the kid is a complete prick
• Mantaro gets injuried and ends up getting trapped into fighting that snake guy.
• Kid muscle gets terry to stop being a prick and he helps kid beat the snake guy and they become friends

End of HF.  Lmk where the cartoon and manga are different.

 

Mantaro fights the dmp

• Dik dik gets jumped by the dmp
• Kid muscle gets challenged by the dmp and fights diabolic.
• Kid beats diabolic and gets challenged by the shoe guy
• Wally takes the fight instead to let kid muscle rest and gets beat by pumpinator
• Kid avenges wally after that
• Kevin flees and leaves the dmp
• Terry runs off to fight the dinosaur guy
• Sunshine tricks kid into being a bad ref for the match
• Kid ends up still being a good ref and terry beats the the dinosaur guy
• Sunshine introduces checkmate and he challenges kid muscle
• Checkmate can't feel pain ect and starts turning on his master sunshine before being beaten by mantaro
• Sunshine gets shot for failing the dmp but then blows up the dmp fist

End dmp arch.  Let me know where it was different between anime and manga

 

New gen vs gen x

• Some stuff happens new gen has to fight gen x and if new gen loses they get replaced
• Dik dik and wally have short work made of them by jade and hydrozoa.
• Kid muscle beats road rage.
• Mantaro turns to terry vs eskara which is halfway through.  Eskara beats terry
• Mantaro fights hydrozoa.  Jade proves he is a good teamate while eskara shows a little bit of his bad side.  Mantaro beats hydrozoa
• Jade fights eskara.  Eskara disables jades finisher and then beats him.
• Kid fights eskara.  After beating kid eskara continues to beat him up when it is revealed he is dmp.  Jades skull revives kid and helps him for a bit before being knocked off.  Kid then makes his new finisher and beats Mars.

End of arch.  LMK where the stories were different.

 

I could keep going, but I think you should be able to see the results.  All the matches are the same, all the results are the same, making the story the same.  Minor details don't change the main story.  The biggest difference is Kevin not beating kid, but that doesn't really matter the show was ending it only sets up the next story line which wasn't being adapted anyway.

 

Keep talking about this "knowledge" you have lol.  Also I love that you said I'm proving your "points", hard to prove points you haven't made.

Edited by Mars, 30 July 2013 - 08:30 PM.

[KinnikuGai]

Oh parts of the story are different?  Please tell me which part of the story is different.  And don't give me minor details, I want major plot differences between the two.

 

Here let me help you a little:

Mantaro Sent to HF:

• Mantaro fights that Plus sign guy
• Mantaro Gets picked up for the hercules factory
• Mantaro Trains at the hercules factory and befriends gazelleman and wally, meanwhile terry the kid is a complete prick
• Mantaro gets injuried and ends up getting trapped into fighting that snake guy.
• Kid muscle gets terry to stop being a prick and he helps kid beat the snake guy and they become friends

End of HF.  Lmk where the cartoon and manga are different.

 

Mantaro fights the dmp

• Dik dik gets jumped by the dmp
• Kid muscle gets challenged by the dmp and fights diabolic.
• Kid beats diabolic and gets challenged by the shoe guy
• Wally takes the fight instead to let kid muscle rest and gets beat by pumpinator
• Kid avenges wally after that
• Kevin flees and leaves the dmp
• Terry runs off to fight the dinosaur guy
• Sunshine tricks kid into being a bad ref for the match
• Kid ends up still being a good ref and terry beats the the dinosaur guy
• Sunshine introduces checkmate and he challenges kid muscle
• Checkmate can't feel pain ect and starts turning on his master sunshine before being beaten by mantaro
• Sunshine gets shot for failing the dmp but then blows up the dmp fist

End dmp arch.  Let me know where it was different between anime and manga

 

New gen vs gen x

• Some stuff happens new gen has to fight gen x and if new gen loses they get replaced
• Dik dik and wally have short work made of them by jade and hydrozoa.
• Kid muscle beats road rage.
• Mantaro turns to terry vs eskara which is halfway through.  Eskara beats terry
• Mantaro fights hydrozoa.  Jade proves he is a good teamate while eskara shows a little bit of his bad side.  Mantaro beats hydrozoa
• Jade fights eskara.  Eskara disables jades finisher and then beats him.
• Kid fights eskara.  After beating kid eskara continues to beat him up when it is revealed he is dmp.  Jades skull revives kid and helps him for a bit before being knocked off.  Kid then makes his new finisher and beats Mars.

End of arch.  LMK where the stories were different.

 

I could keep going, but I think you should be able to see the results.  All the matches are the same, all the results are the same, making the story the same.  Minor details don't change the main story.  The biggest difference is Kevin not beating kid, but that doesn't really matter the show was ending it only sets up the next story line which wasn't being adapted anyway.

 

Keep talking about this "knowledge" you have lol.  Also I love that you said I'm proving your "points", hard to prove points you haven't made

Right manta fights Bone/blood killer before the HF  so.. 2   how manta met meat how he met rinko how  kinnikuman  never took off and came to the HF the  way rinko found that dog  and there was that Mix up , i mean the list goes  on and on ,

 they missed out terryman vs kinnikuman & missed out a moment of romance , 

The Rigany arc was changed  as well these are not  minor details  these are Key points in the manga for  character relationships

 

i see you're point and what you are saying yes the over all plot  does fit mantaro win X in anime so he does in manga but  that does still not make its story identical seeing as there are huge  parts of the story  that are missed out  changed this does not make it identical its make it very close to identical , if it was identical it would  it would start like the manga and end like the manga not missing out or changing things that would make it story identical to the manga.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by guy kinniku, 30 July 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[fuzzbuster]

get to the end of the Trojan championship

A true Trojan Champion finishes first and third.

[KinnikuGai]

look yeah lets just call it quites we should agree to disagree.

[pocketmego]

Dude has an avatar of what is presumably himself in a Kinikuman mask. I'm going by what he says, strictly because of his MASSIVE DORKINESS. This guy's Nerd Factor is STRONG!

[KinnikuGai]

Dude has an avatar of what is presumably himself in a Kinikuman mask. I'm going by what he says, strictly because of his MASSIVE DORKINESS. This guy's Nerd Factor is STRONG!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks man yeah I have had lots of masks made up for me   that's my first custom job I have 2 others there a post some where? but yeah my Nerd factor is strong but it has made did make me start doing MMA.

Edited by guy kinniku, 31 July 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[pocketmego]

 

Dude has an avatar of what is presumably himself in a Kinikuman mask. I'm going by what he says, strictly because of his MASSIVE DORKINESS. This guy's Nerd Factor is STRONG!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks man yeah I have had lots of masks made up for me   that's my first custom job I have 2 others there a post some where? but yeah my Nerd factor is strong but it has made did make me start doing MMA.

 

Hey, I'ma massive geek too, bro. Our Nerd Love should always inspire us!

[KinnikuGai]

Hey, I'ma massive geek too, bro. Our Nerd Love should always inspire us!

I agree with that

[Kingmuscle]

 

Dude has an avatar of what is presumably himself in a Kinikuman mask. I'm going by what he says, strictly because of his MASSIVE DORKINESS. This guy's Nerd Factor is STRONG!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks man yeah I have had lots of masks made up for me   that's my first custom job I have 2 others there a post some where? but yeah my Nerd factor is strong but it has made did make me start doing MMA.

 

I gotta admit guy I thought you would've gotten pissed with that comment lol

 

Yes but  parts of the story are still different do you know what  identical means at all.

 

You have proved my point again of you're low

knowledge  it very shocking, and I like it how you still have not addressed the whole to Trojan. But look at the end of the day kinnikuman is a very big part of my life so i find  odd when someone try's to show knowledge of something they have very little of .

guy is right though some parts of the story differed in the Manga and Anime for example in the Manga Mantarou defeated Bone Killer/Addversarious after he disrespected Ramenman whereas the anime had him destroy Mantarous lunch and in the Manga Rinko/Roxanne didn't appear until after the Match with Mars but the anime had her appear during the battle with Tel Tel Boy/Dialbolic

[MisterE]

I think, and mind you this is an opinion, that Ultimate Muscle failed because it didn't have any fans from Kinnikuman watching. Allow me to elaborate a bit. A lot of Ultimate Muscle was fan service to fans of the first series, so when Sunshine appears they are like OMFG! However, not knowing the history and ect. fans of Ultimate Muscle were like...meh. Same with Warsman being Lord Flash, or the son of this guy or that guy. Without a history people have no reason to care.

[ironmask]

Is it too late or early for me to complain about the voice acting again?

 

I still want a Dark Ricardo figure.

[Stinger Wolf]

Is it too late or early for me to complain about the voice acting again?

 

I still want a Dark Ricardo figure.

It's never too late or too early to complain about the English voice acting for this series. As a matter of fact, when I was at Anime Expo last month, there were a few who complained about that to me when I wore a Kinnikuman Nisei yukata, during one of the days there.