46 replies to this topic

[Stecase King]

PM Jkaris. Click his name > Send Message.

He beat you to the punch.

[Matto]

The thing with the anime is, you have to sort of view the Japanese and English as too seperate animes. They both have their good and bad points.

This.

I really have to get started on the essay. Like, seriously. Stupid college work. >=(

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

This. I really have to get started on the essay. Like, seriously. Stupid college work. >=(

I look forward to reading this essay of yours. What is it going to be about exactly? How under appreciated the nisei series was? That it had a good dub? I'm interested in seeing how you will defend it.

[Matto]

Basically I touch base on EVERYTHING, from the things you mentioned, to voice performences and how it compares entertainment wise to the anime. I *might* post it here, but I'd rather post it on a site dedicated to the Nisei series in general, if one even existed. Which it doesn't. D:

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Basically I touch base on EVERYTHING, from the things you mentioned, to voice performences and how it compares entertainment wise to the anime. I *might* post it here, but I'd rather post it on a site dedicated to the Nisei series in general, if one even existed. Which it doesn't. D:

I see. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you meant how it compares to the manga (not anime since you are writing about the anime) entertainment wise? As for where you should post it, I think you should post it here. This is a pretty big Kinnikuman community that encompasses fandom for both the first and second generation. I think that this place is as big as it gets when it comes to Kinnikuman. Unless, you don't want some of us here to read it.

[Matto]

Ha, noticed I put "anime" instead of manga.

This is a pretty big Kinnikuman community that encompasses fandom for both the first and second generation. I think that this place is as big as it gets when it comes to Kinnikuman. Unless, you don't want some of us here to read it.

Nah, I want people to read it. It's not even started yet, I'm still in the planning stages. I will post it here when I feel the time is right. Sometime this year? Hopefully. Not making any promises though.

[TheOrgg]

Also, Bhayes, take a look at the manga releases of Ultimate Muscle. While the first fifteen are censored for nudity and language, by issue 16 they removed all the censorship. Pick up 16-22 and give them a spin. The manga also (as of THIS CURRENT ISSUE) goes forward from where the cartoon (the english version of the anime) left off.

Some of the earlier issues may be a bit difficult to find. If you can't find 2, 3, 5, 6, or 8 I think the local comic shop has 'em, and he will do mail order.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Nah, I want people to read it. It's not even started yet, I'm still in the planning stages. I will post it here when I feel the time is right. Sometime this year? Hopefully. Not making any promises though.

Take your time with it. Nobody is rushing you. However, as you've said already, there are really no good sites dedicated solely to the nisei series. With that being said, it's going to be very hard for your voice to be heard, especially since a lot of people don't even know what Kinnikuman is. That is why I suggested that if you are to post your essay anywhere, it should be here because you know that people (myself included) will read it. Furthermore, Kinnikuman in general tends to have a cult following (very small) compared to a lot of other well known/mainstream animes out there. The fact that it is shrouded in obscurity by the anime fanbase is not going to help matters either. Hardly anyone recognizes it. But it's up to you in the end if you want to post it elsewhere besides here.

[KnuxieChan]

Also, Bhayes, take a look at the manga releases of Ultimate Muscle. While the first fifteen are censored for nudity and language, by issue 16 they removed all the censorship. Pick up 16-22 and give them a spin.

The things I hate about the manga is you can tell the translators really don't give a crap. They didn't do much research - and it shows. I don't mind the use of dub names but jesus, atleast try to get them right, Viz!

[Matto]

Remember that Viz Wiz target audience is mostly into buying Inu-Yasha and crappy Shojo manga. UM doesn't have enough bishounens who are homosexual and girls with normal teenage angst issues and eye sparkles.

[Aelia]

Remember that Viz Wiz target audience is mostly into buying Inu-Yasha and crappy Shojo manga. UM doesn't have enough bishounens who are homosexual and girls with normal teenage angst issues and eye sparkles.

Replace Inu-Yasha with Naruto and you'd be spot on. Inu-Yasha ain't cool no more.

And with all Viz's flaws, it is STILL better than Tokyopop.

[Matto]

Milkypop and Vizzy would make the perfect couple then.

Milky can make the Mary Sue inserts for OEL manga and Vizzy can give them six month release windows. If you have Shounen-Ai you are cut down to three months.

Del Ray is more deserving of my spending dollars.

[Aelia]

Milkypop and Vizzy would make the perfect couple then.

Milky can make the Mary Sue inserts for OEL manga and Vizzy can give them six month release windows. If you have Shounen-Ai you are cut down to three months.

Del Ray is more deserving of my spending dollars.

Don't jinx it man, they might merge. VizPop? TokyoViz? TokyoPop-Viz INC?

Agreed about Del Ray though. And I admit spending money on manga series released by Dark Horse and Vertical INC.

Edited by Aelia, 05 March 2009 - 01:41 PM.

[SoldierAtaru]

I think where Kinnikuman Nisei went wrong in the US was that it really was a strange series based on a semi-well known toy line of the 1980s. (I say that cause it didn't have a cartoon alongside like He-Man, Transformers and GI Joe...well a cartoon aired in the states) 4Kids did try their best even with all their faults (see turning Meat from a kid to a 40 year old man or...Beatlebomb), but while it caught on a bit when the block started up, it eventually got obscured both due to other 4Kids pickups...and by the shows that beat it on the other networks, broadcast and cable. Nisei is just a hard series to get into no matter what audience you aim for: it's too juvinille for an adult audience and too adult for the kids, but 4Kids did at least try and allowed for the anime to at least finish the Choujin Olympics arc, which probably wouldn't have been animated under the original Japan run.

[Matto]

Wrong.

UM's only competetion with it's pure B-grade awesomeness was TMNT 2K3. Sure, 4kids also had Kirby, but considering they gutted out the enjoyable aspects Right Back At Ya was doomed to failure. It also didn't help that 4kids was gaining a bad rep for also becoming the DiC of the 21st century, see One Peice and Tokyo Mew Mew. Not to mention some of the 4kids cartoons were crap (though I heard Winx Club was better in it's original form).

Also consider that UM is the only anime series that has both a dub and sub I LIKE. This is quite an amazing feet, since I tend to avoid alot of dubs, except for Cowboy Bebop, Haruhi Suzumiya and Ghost In A Shell: Stand Alone Complex 1 & 2.

[SoldierAtaru]

Wrong.

UM's only competetion with it's pure B-grade awesomeness was TMNT 2K3. Sure, 4kids also had Kirby, but considering they gutted out the enjoyable aspects Right Back At Ya was doomed to failure. It also didn't help that 4kids was gaining a bad rep for also becoming the DiC of the 21st century, see One Peice and Tokyo Mew Mew. Not to mention some of the 4kids cartoons were crap (though I heard Winx Club was better in it's original form).

TMNT and UM were on the same network and therefore were partners, whether or not one was a semi-good but semi-bad dub and the other was a really cool reinterpretation of an 80s "American" classic. (and I'm not going to talk about crap like the horrible OP dub which ruined it's appeal in the US and turned kids towards...Naruto) Of course, it didn't help that Fox Box/4KidsTV were essentially a smaller netlet and facing up against shows on much bigger kids block on TV and cable.

[Matto]

I seriously don't consider those shows "partners". Both were made by two completely different studios with different audiences in mind, even though they were on the same channel. Granted, I do agree with the 4kids/Fox Box outlet, but outside of Avatar, and a couple of Cartoon network shows (Foster's, Powerpuff Girls and Dexter's Lab), studios have forgotten the charm of Saturday morning cartoons.

NOW UM IS GONE. GONE.

It also doesn't help that Toei hates their guts after what happened Al Kahn Peice.

[SoldierAtaru]

I seriously don't consider those shows "partners". Both were made by two completely different studios with different audiences in mind, even though they were on the same channel. Granted, I do agree with the 4kids/Fox Box outlet, but outside of Avatar, and a couple of Cartoon network shows (Foster's, Powerpuff Girls and Dexter's Lab), studios have forgotten the charm of Saturday morning cartoons.

NOW UM IS GONE. GONE.

It was still the same block on Saturday mornings, regardless of one being serious and American and the other being semi-serious and Japanese. Not to mention that they were fighting not just themselves but everyone from the other networks to CN to the juggernaught of Nick (Spongebob should just end already).

And while I understand that Toei hates the US for all it's done, it's not really doing anything to help either. I mean, while it was in control of their fun Bo-bobo dub, why the heck would they give it to a company for DVDs who would go belly-up after two volumes?

[Matto]

Business sense has never been Toei's strongest suit when it comes to licensing. Giving 4kids One Peice is good proof on that.

We should just quit arguing on UM failing as a cartoon (when it more clearly fails as a manga but becomes GLORIOUS as an anime). We should instead derail this thread and talk about why 4kids decided we needed Fighting Foodons and the Cramp Twins.

will lead to automatic thread closure i'm sure

[jkaris]

It also doesn't help that Toei hates their guts after what happened Al Kahn Peice.

Ok, I'm lost here. What is this referring to? I know Khan was/is the CEO of 4kids, but why would Toei hate 4Kids because of him?

[theCrazyest]

I'm like a lot of you, my kids and I really enjoyed the series and wish we could watch it again. I was very happy that 4Kids licensed the eps that Japan was not willing to thus allowing the Chojin Olympics to be show here. I didn't like the fact that they changed how that arc ends The only guys who I knew that watched this show (outside of this forum) were my friends who a) enjoy watching wrestling liked M.U.S.C.L.E.S. at an earlier age. UM was shown at a bad time for most people and did not get the type of exposure that the Sunrise cartoons get on CM.

In general it really sux that the American Anime market has bottomed out with all of the distributors (except Bandai and Funi) going out of business but this is due to the fact that watching Japanese style Anime is not as palette-able/easily accessible to the public as watching American style Anime (i.e. Ben 10, Avatar, The Batman, or the like). I'm not against any of the afore mentioned shows but it has been my experience when talking to people who watch J Anime and people who watch A Anime that they are looking for different things out of each of these genres. Just my $0.02

[Matto]

@ Jkaris: JOKE EXPLAINING TIME!

My Al Kahn Peice jab is just a new way of naming Dub Peice. No, Toei does not hate 4kids because of Al Kahn, Toei hates them for ruining One Peice beyond all humanity.