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#6401 AtarusMuscleSpark

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:13 PM

'TheBlazngYudekki01', on 01 May 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Which technique is stronger/better, "Muscle Revenger" or "Four Dimension Kill"?


Revenger also has the build up of the repeated head butt, and he also slams their heads to the posts.
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#6402 Evil Lord Proteus

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:32 AM

Most moves can have the ringpost added to be honest. If Blackhole's 4D Kill spins before impact, then it will probably have more power than the Revenger.

And Akuma Shogun was the most powerful opponent Kin ever faced, not Phoenix.

Edited by Evil Lord Proteus, 01 May 2012 - 01:33 AM.

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#6403 kevinmask01

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:52 AM

'Evil Lord Proteus', on 01 May 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

Most moves can have the ringpost added to be honest. If Blackhole's 4D Kill spins before impact, then it will probably have more power than the Revenger.

And Akuma Shogun was the most powerful opponent Kin ever faced, not Phoenix.


What makes Akuma Shogun was stronger than all of Kinnikuman's other opponents?

Edited by kevinmask01, 01 May 2012 - 03:10 AM.

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#6404 Evil Lord Proteus

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:31 AM

That he is a semi-omnipotent god who was only beaten by himself?

Suguru also didnt have his inner-fire in the Throne arc.
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#6405 kevinmask01

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:07 AM

I always thought Neptuneman was stronger. And Akuma Shogun does have a weakness; his head; its the part of him that was real, so attacks there hurt him. Not to mention when the evil gods were watching kinnikuman fight Shogun, they didn't take any steps to eliminate him, they were more concerened about kinnikuman's growing power, so maybe the gods weren't afraid of shogun. Also, Phoenix was defeated by the Burning Inner Strength at the end. This is just my opinion though.
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#6406 Blackbeard D. Kuma

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:05 AM

The thing is, Akuma Shogun was never truly defeated by Kinnikuman. It was circumstantial plot that did him in (aka Buffaloman's shenanigans). And while the original manga basically implied that Phoenix was Suguru's biggest challenge (the power of the chojin gods are unrivaled supposedly), one could still argue that Akuma Shogun was the biggest threat overall. The evil gods have been vanquished ever since the scramble for the throne ended, whereas Akuma Shogun still to this day has been scheming to resurrect himself and has been a constant reminder to the justice chojin that the devils will inevitably return to seize control over the chojin world.

As for the muscle revenger vs. 4D Kill, the muscle revenger should undoubtedly be stronger for reasons already mentioned.

Edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma, 01 May 2012 - 10:13 AM.

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#6407 ironmask

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:54 AM

IMO, Pheonix was a flash in the pan, and Akuma Shogun was the kind of villain that defines the hero. He is Skeletor, Megatron, Dr. Doom, etc.
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#6408 kevinmask01

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:13 AM

'Blackbeard D. Kuma', on 01 May 2012 - 6:05 PM, said:

The thing is, Akuma Shogun was never truly defeated by Kinnikuman. It was circumstantial plot that did him in (aka Buffaloman's shenanigans). And while the original manga basically implied that Phoenix was Suguru's biggest challenge (the power of the chojin gods are unrivaled supposedly), one could still argue that Akuma Shogun was the biggest threat overall. The evil gods have been vanquished ever since the scramble for the throne ended, whereas Akuma Shogun still to this day has been scheming to resurrect himself and has been a constant reminder to the justice chojin that the devils will inevitably return to seize control over the chojin world.

As for the muscle revenger vs. 4D Kill, the muscle revenger should undoubtedly be stronger for reasons already mentioned.

We don't really know if Akuma Shogun was the same one we saw in Nisei. They look alike, but its unlikely to be goldman as he went by the name of General Terror; he's most likely an incarnation of Satan, as when Asuraman asked General terror to fight with him, Satan came, so the Shogun in Nisei is most likely an incarnation of satan. Also, We saw the God of Intelligence being vanquished, but not the other 4, so they might still be alive. The reason why I think Neptuneman and Neptune King might be stronger is because Akuma Shogun did say that his head was alive; he can get hurt from attacks to the head, and since They can turn their arms into hardness 10, I'm sure they can break Shogun's hardness ability just like kinnikuman did, and since they have a much higher chojin power level, their physical strength is greater too.
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#6409 Evil Lord Proteus

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:46 AM

Chojin Power levels are irrelivent. They mean absolutely nothing. Characters with 950,000 power have beaten characters nearing a billion. Robin had a power of 960,000 and he beat Mariposa, whom had 1,000,000,000 power.

Shogun has also been shown to generally be able to do a lot more, he's risen the dead, teleported unwilling targets wherever he wanted, transmuted his body into metals, minerals and water, healed himself at will, and other things. He's a god. Budo and Neptuneman's arms being hardness 10 or whatever doesnt mean squat, people have survived the crossbomber from them before, so why think just one of them will take care of Shogun? Shogun will always be the big baddie of Kinnikuman, the video games usually agree on this.

Edited by Evil Lord Proteus, 01 May 2012 - 11:48 AM.

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#6410 Blackbeard D. Kuma

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:47 AM

'kevinmask01', on 01 May 2012 - 7:13 PM, said:

We don't really know if Akuma Shogun was the same one we saw in Nisei. They look alike, but its unlikely to be goldman as he went by the name of General Terror; he's most likely an incarnation of Satan, as when Asuraman asked General terror to fight with him, Satan came, so the Shogun in Nisei is most likely an incarnation of satan. Also, We saw the God of Intelligence being vanquished, but not the other 4, so they might still be alive. The reason why I think Neptuneman and Neptune King might be stronger is because Akuma Shogun did say that his head was alive; he can get hurt from attacks to the head, and since They can turn their arms into hardness 10, I'm sure they can break Shogun's hardness ability just like kinnikuman did, and since they have a much higher chojin power level, their physical strength is greater too.

Regardless of whether or not that was Goldman, Satan still lives on. Even in this current story arc we can see that he's been revived, so his very essence has been a constant thorn in the side of the justice chojin.

You'll find that chojin power levels aren't the best indicators of overall strength. Time and again there have been instances of chojin with lower power levels defeating chojin with higher power levels.

I have a databook of the original series, and in terms of pure physical strength, the top 3 are:

1) Mammothman (chojin power = 78 million)
2) Buffaloman (chojin power = 10 million)
3) Neptuneman (chojin power = 28 million)

As you can see, Neptuneman's chojin power is considerably higher than Buffaloman's, however Buffaloman has him beat in pure physical strength.

With that being said, yes Neptuneman is physically stronger than Akuma Shogun, however Shogun definitely has more tools in his arsenal that make him more broken and dangerous overall. Even though only his head is his weak point, that's still very cheap. And of course the Hell's Nine Point Seal of Doom can incapacitate anyone.
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#6411 Blackbeard D. Kuma

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

'Evil Lord Proteus', on 01 May 2012 - 7:46 PM, said:

Chojin Power levels are irrelivent. They mean absolutely nothing. Characters with 950,000 power have beaten characters nearing a billion. Robin had a power of 960,000 and he beat Mariposa, whom had 1,000,000,000 power.

The five fated princes each had 100 million power. That's the absolute highest so far.
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#6412 kevinmask01

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

'Blackbeard D. Kuma', on 01 May 2012 - 7:47 PM, said:

Regardless of whether or not that was Goldman, Satan still lives on. Even in this current story arc we can see that he's been revived, so his very essence has been a constant thorn in the side of the justice chojin.

You'll find that chojin power levels aren't the best indicators of overall strength. Time and again there have been instances of chojin with lower power levels defeating chojin with higher power levels.

I have a databook of the original series, and in terms of pure physical strength, the top 3 are:

1) Mammothman (chojin power = 78 million)
2) Buffaloman (chojin power = 10 million)
3) Neptuneman (chojin power = 28 million)

As you can see, Neptuneman's chojin power is considerably higher than Buffaloman's, however Buffaloman has him beat in pure physical strength.

With that being said, yes Neptuneman is physically stronger than Akuma Shogun, however Shogun definitely has more tools in his arsenal that make him more broken and dangerous overall. Even though only his head is his weak point, that's still very cheap. And of course the Hell's Nine Point Seal of Doom can incapacitate anyone.

Chojin powers aren't irrelevant. They impact people's physical strength, but that doesn't mean increased durability or speed; its mainly used to increase strength of attacks, which is why those with lower power defeated those with higher power. When buffaloman was winning, neptuneman immediately countered with his power, so he does have more strength than buffaloman. To proteus, neptuneman being able to use hardness 10 on his arm does mean something. Even if shogun uses hardness 10, neptuneman can counter it with his quarrel bomber and higher power and break his hardness ability. Also, if shogun fights for too long, he'll absorb magnetism like everyone else neptuneman fought, leaving him at neptuneman's mercy.
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#6413 Blackbeard D. Kuma

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:55 PM

'kevinmask01', on 01 May 2012 - 8:22 PM, said:

When buffaloman was winning, neptuneman immediately countered with his power, so he does have more strength than buffaloman.

Buffaloman was winning his grapple struggle with Neptuneman. Neptuneman countered by using technique, not power. He's not physically stronger than Buffaloman. The databook reinforces this by placing Buffaloman at #2 and Neptuneman at #3 for physical strength.
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#6414 kevinmask01

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

'Blackbeard D. Kuma', on 01 May 2012 - 8:55 PM, said:

Buffaloman was winning his grapple struggle with Neptuneman. Neptuneman countered by using technique, not power. He's not physically stronger than Buffaloman. The databook reinforces this by placing Buffaloman at #2 and Neptuneman at #3 for physical strength.

Fair enough, I can't argue with that. His 28,000,000 power probably stems from his magnet power then if he was losing to buffaloman like that. But I still think neptuneman can probably defeat shogun, and from what I've witnessed throughout the manga is that chojin power levels do have some impact; mainly in strength of attacks. May i ask where you got that data book from?

Edited by kevinmask01, 01 May 2012 - 02:16 PM.

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#6415 TheBlazngYudekki01

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:32 PM

'Blackbeard D. Kuma', on 01 May 2012 - 8:55 PM, said:

Buffaloman was winning his grapple struggle with Neptuneman. Neptuneman countered by using technique, not power. He's not physically stronger than Buffaloman. The databook reinforces this by placing Buffaloman at #2 and Neptuneman at #3 for physical strength.

Wait, what data book? Can you show us an image of what it looks like?
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#6416 Evil Lord Proteus

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:19 AM

'kevinmask01', on 01 May 2012 - 8:22 PM, said:

Chojin powers aren't irrelevant. They impact people's physical strength, but that doesn't mean increased durability or speed; its mainly used to increase strength of attacks, which is why those with lower power defeated those with higher power. When buffaloman was winning, neptuneman immediately countered with his power, so he does have more strength than buffaloman. To proteus, neptuneman being able to use hardness 10 on his arm does mean something. Even if shogun uses hardness 10, neptuneman can counter it with his quarrel bomber and higher power and break his hardness ability. Also, if shogun fights for too long, he'll absorb magnetism like everyone else neptuneman fought, leaving him at neptuneman's mercy.


If someone can find me a canon source on what chojin power is that makes sense i wont scoff at anyone trying to use chojin power as a measure of strength. Originally they were just power levels, with 15,000,000 supposedly being the max with Akuma Shogun which was where the series was originally going to end.

'Blackbeard D. Kuma', on 01 May 2012 - 7:52 PM, said:

The five fated princes each had 100 million power. That's the absolute highest so far.


whoops, i meant to say 100 million, not 1 billion. My bad.

Edited by Evil Lord Proteus, 02 May 2012 - 05:20 AM.

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#6417 kevinmask01

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:40 AM

'Evil Lord Proteus', on 02 May 2012 - 1:19 PM, said:

If someone can find me a canon source on what chojin power is that makes sense i wont scoff at anyone trying to use chojin power as a measure of strength. Originally they were just power levels, with 15,000,000 supposedly being the max with Akuma Shogun which was where the series was originally going to end.



Wait, they planned to end it at Akuma Shogun?
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#6418 Blackbeard D. Kuma

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:07 AM

'kevinmask01', on 01 May 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

May i ask where you got that data book from?


'TheBlazngYudekki01', on 01 May 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Wait, what data book? Can you show us an image of what it looks like?


Sorry for the late reply, guys. I got the databook back in 2004. I ordered it from online (I can't recall where exactly). Unfortunately, I don't have a working camera nor a scanner right now so I can't show you pictures of it. But I can tell you the cover looks very similar to this:

http://japanesemanga.ca/images/firstImg/_DSC5403.jpg

The only difference is that Kinnikuman has his royal guard suit on with the cape. I've tried to look for images of the databook online but there's nothing.

The databook has lots more information as well. If you'd like, I can post more stuff here.
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#6419 TheBlazngYudekki01

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:33 AM

'Blackbeard D. Kuma', on 02 May 2012 - 4:07 PM, said:

Sorry for the late reply, guys. I got the databook back in 2004. I ordered it from online (I can't recall where exactly). Unfortunately, I don't have a working camera nor a scanner right now so I can't show you pictures of it. But I can tell you the cover looks very similar to this:

http://japanesemanga.ca/images/firstImg/_DSC5403.jpg

The only difference is that Kinnikuman has his royal guard suit on with the cape. I've tried to look for images of the databook online but there's nothing.

The databook has lots more information as well. If you'd like, I can post more stuff here.

You think you can write the name down (In Japanese and Romaji please).

Edited by TheBlazngYudekki01, 02 May 2012 - 08:34 AM.

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#6420 Blackbeard D. Kuma

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:32 AM

'TheBlazngYudekki01', on 02 May 2012 - 4:33 PM, said:

You think you can write the name down (In Japanese and Romaji please).

I just found a picture of its cover. Here it is (top image of the link):

http://www.galstown.com/medianetjapan/sai/hon160.html
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#6421 TheBlazngYudekki01

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:43 AM

'Blackbeard D. Kuma', on 02 May 2012 - 5:32 PM, said:

I just found a picture of its cover. Here it is (top image of the link):

http://www.galstown.com/medianetjapan/sai/hon160.html

Thank You!
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#6422 NamaNiku

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:49 PM

I have that book. It is called the キン肉マン超人大全 aka Kinnikuman Choujin Encyclopedia. I got mine used from Amazon Japan Marketplace for like 200 yen.

http://www.amazon.co...&condition=used
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#6423 AtarusMuscleSpark

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:09 PM

Has anyone thought of the possibility that Ataru might appear? I think they should have more Ataru.
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#6424 Ridureyu

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:29 PM

They should explain what Phoenix got up to, and why he wasn't around in 2nd Generation.
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#6425 TheBlazngYudekki01

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:01 PM

'Ridureyu', on 03 May 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

They should explain what Phoenix got up to, and why he wasn't around in 2nd Generation.

I wonder what happened to Iwao during Nisei?
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