Mystery of the Non-MUSCLE Sculpts
#53
Posted 11 February 2008 - 02:10 PM
(1) We can be certain the non-MUSCLE sculpts were left out for a specific reason
(2) If we find a tree, like the one arforbes found, that has all non-MUSCLE sculpts on it from one of the parts, we can assume the same for all non-MUSCLE sculpts
(3) Perhaps SC's 2nd set of legs were part of the same (potential) mold as the other part 21 non-MUSCLE sculpts
(4) If part 21 SC was indeed divided between two family molds, that could explain why he was not on the poster but had a full flesh run
#54
Posted 11 February 2008 - 04:28 PM
(3) Perhaps SC's 2nd set of legs were part of the same (potential) mold as the other part 21 non-MUSCLE sculpts
I for one want to belive this but considering what has been found so far,
I think this would have been something that would have been found already.
Call me crazy!
#55
Posted 11 February 2008 - 08:47 PM
1.) He is a 2 piece figure.
2.) He is amazingly common in his own right.
3.) He has not been found in any color other than Flesh, which really is mind boggling! (WAIT!) ****
4.) He is not pictured on the Poster.
5.) He belongs to a part where figures are split up, being that Half of the sculpts were official Super COMMON figures, and the other half proving to have been made in extremely limited Super Rare runs! Satan Cross finds himself stuck in the middle, with no other figure from the line showing any common characteristics in scarcity!
****Footnote for point #3!!!! I just had an epiphany! We have just discussed the molding process with Alex in, I believe, another topic. We are quite aware of mold variations within the muscle world, where one figure of a sculpt (say #1) may have a sprue coming out of his head, yet the a different figure of #1 would have the sprue coming out of his foot! What if!!! WHAT IFFFF!!!!!! What if!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now listen to me!!!
What if Most tree molds had more than 1 copy, maybe 2 or 3 copies! 3 of the same exact mold. Yet What if the Satan Cross sculpt from Part 21 was only on 1, or even only 2 of the three molds! Maybe on the third mold they left him off for some reason!
This would possibly end up doing the following!!!
1.) He would be slightly scarcer than most other figures!
2.) His being on possibly only one of the molds would make it EASY!!! for the factory to pull that entire mold copy, thus eliminating SC from being made PERIOD in any colors!
3.) This theory falls in line with why Satan Cross is even quite an Uncommon and sought after sculpt even among Kinkeshi collectors!
4.) Maybe Bandai decided to make all the Multi part characters from Part 21 harder to find to increase sales of old stock figures and new stock! Their being made in limited runs would have made them like chase figures. It was a new take on the Kinkeshi line, and surely many kids would be like COOL!!! I want these figures, so they would spend more money to try and get the little devils out of the darned machines!!!
It makes so much sense!!! All the Super Rare sculpts from Part 21 all came in one of the tree molds, except for Satan Cross! So they would be Money making Chase Kinkeshi figures. While SC was placed, instead, on only ONE of the Copies of the Tree Molds from one of the other Trees from that part!!! Thus making him slightly more uncommon in the muscle line, and then easy to remove from the color run of figures!!!!!
It would be hard to prove, but maybe our old chart information that we put together can add more wood to the fire Soupie! If we can see a consistency change in Part 21 figure production percentages between the Flesh Muscle run and the Colored muscle run, then maybe, just maybe this theory could be right!
Sometimes I even surprise myself.
I hope that made sense, and that you didn't go brain dead trying to read it all Soups. Let me know what you think.
#56
Posted 12 February 2008 - 06:19 AM
As to multiple molds per figure on each family mold, I don't know. TGB would probably have a better idea, but I'm thinking there was only one family mold, and it probably had two copies of each sculpt on it -- just like the example arforbes has. And the idea that there were 2-3 copies of each family mold. While that would be uber expensive -- I think jkaris said these molds were in the high thousands -- I guess if there were 2-3 factories making kinkeshi, there would have to be multiple copies of the family molds. Although, each factory could have been working on different "parts."
For instance, my Mordles, Cheap Toys, Weird Ball Wrestlers, all seem to have two sculpt variations... one for each of the two molds in their family tree.
As knowledgeable as Naochin seems to be, I bet he would have an idea how many molds Bandai used for each character/sculpt.
Finally, I'm not sure this idea really address the fact the SC's body was run in flesh but not his 2nd legs. Right?
Edited by Soupie, 12 February 2008 - 06:29 AM.
#57
Posted 12 February 2008 - 09:29 AM
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#59
Posted 12 February 2008 - 09:35 AM
Oh, yeah. It supports URS's theory.
That's exactly what I was thinking too.
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#60
Posted 12 February 2008 - 09:55 AM
I'm sure the MUSCLE color code ties in with this as well in some way. The trend seems to be for each MUSCLE tree to be missing 2-3 colors. Each part seems to 2-4 trees.
Maybe when each new part came on line, Bandai distributed the trees (family molds) to each factory so they could pump them out. So while, say parts 5 and 6 were being produced, each factory had two or three family molds to focus on producing. And...
Whoa! Here's another thought! Kinkeshi are only made in 5 colors, 4 if we don't count flesh. Perhaps this has something to do with the ODD pattern we find with trees and colors? Each tree seems to be missing 2-3 colors.
Is that a multiple of 4-5 some how? Know what I mean?
Maybe the factories were somehow (not sure how) set up to only produce 4 colors at a time at the most. So when Mattel wanted more than 4 colors, they could only hit each trees with 5-6 colors. And as we've speculated before, each factory had different colors available to use.
#61
Posted 12 February 2008 - 10:16 AM
F1: -- Salmon -- Purple -- Dark Blue -- ________ -- Red -- _______ -- ______ -- _____
F2: -- ______ -- Purple -- Dark Blue -- Light Blue -- Red -- _______ -- Orange -- _____
F3: -- Salmon -- ______ -- _______ -- _________ -- ___ -- Magenta -- Orange -- Green
F4: -- Salmon -- Purple -- Dark Blue -- _________ -- Red -- _______ -- _____ -- Green
Okay, suck at math, so the chart doesn't work real well, but it gets my idea across. For example, let's imagine a tree, say, part 3, tree 1, was made in factories F3 and F4.
F3: -- Salmon -- ______ -- _______ -- _________ -- ___ -- Magenta -- Orange -- Green
F4: -- Salmon -- Purple -- Dark Blue -- _________ -- Red -- _______ -- _____ -- Green
This tree would be common in Salmon, rare in Purple, rare in Dark Blue, not made in Purple, rare in Red, rare in Magenta, rare in Orange, and Common in Green.
Does that make sense to anyone?
#62
Posted 12 February 2008 - 12:19 PM
#63
Posted 12 February 2008 - 12:26 PM
http://ulala69.hp.in...o.jp/part21.htm
Edited by arforbes, 12 February 2008 - 12:28 PM.
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#64
Posted 12 February 2008 - 02:20 PM
Whoa! Good analysis, arforbes! And to the fact the other people besides URS and I are starting to talk about the trees and molding process!Forgive me if this was already addressed but Satancross also has no sprue hole where the legs might have been attached - which differs completely from SHA and BHS. Also if you look on Naochin's site ALL the SC pics in each color are shown with legs simply standing next to the figure, never attached. So yes, legs made separately for sure = highly likely. On a different tree though? Hard to say.
http://ulala69.hp.in...o.jp/part21.htm
#65
Posted 12 February 2008 - 02:53 PM
Whoa! Good analysis, arforbes! And to the fact the other people besides URS and I are starting to talk about the trees and molding process!
I think plenty of people are reading with interest just not able to contribute too much...
the best I could do was a fleeting reference in the 29th anniversary thread
Keep it up!
Edited by matthewf1tz, 12 February 2008 - 02:54 PM.
#66
Posted 13 February 2008 - 12:56 PM
Whoa! Good analysis, arforbes! And to the fact the other people besides URS and I are starting to talk about the trees and molding process!Forgive me if this was already addressed but Satancross also has no sprue hole where the legs might have been attached - which differs completely from SHA and BHS. Also if you look on Naochin's site ALL the SC pics in each color are shown with legs simply standing next to the figure, never attached. So yes, legs made separately for sure = highly likely. On a different tree though? Hard to say.
http://ulala69.hp.in...o.jp/part21.htm
Thanks man! This stuff is quite intriguing actually. And to think that we may actually solve this mystery is even sweeter! Hopefully Naochin can tell us some stuff that will help piece more of the puzzle together.
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#67
Posted 13 February 2008 - 02:38 PM
These two I think are from different parts (I believe one is from 14 but the other...?)
attached_figs.jpg 18.72K 28 downloads
they came from this set:
jeju1975_img600x401_1187753304po20070822_0009_103.jpg 40.82K 21 downloads
are they re-issues or original keshi? I know they look shiney but is that the plastic bag?
#68
Posted 13 February 2008 - 03:03 PM
Very interesting. I'm not sure about the identity of the other sculpt either... But it is possible that the chambers/individual molds for each sculpt could be switched in and out of the family mold. If that's the case, that would certainly explain how SC was apparently so easily removed from the color run.
(I'm off to do some netsearch on family molds.)
#69
Posted 13 February 2008 - 05:37 PM
#70
Posted 13 February 2008 - 05:52 PM
But still, Jkaris, it's the fact that those two sculpts appear to be on the same frame. Can you identify the one sculpt Matthew couldn't? If they originally came from two different trees/family molds, the fact that they are now together suggests individual molds can be swapped around!Re-issue plastic, I have one of those sets.
#71
Posted 13 February 2008 - 06:03 PM
#72
Posted 13 February 2008 - 06:08 PM
Right, but consider the fact that switching our specific cavities is probably very time consuming and potentially disruptive to the family mold balance (if a completely different cavity is put in its place). Perhaps they only swapped cavities in extreme cases -- to replace a worn one, or for a re-release set.I'd like to add, that if the singular molds could be switched out at all, then there would more than likely be no noticeable color code or tree information. I don't believe in the multi piece Tree molds, and never have. Just my two cents. It just doesn't seem remotely feasible to me.
#73
Posted 13 February 2008 - 07:32 PM
#74
Posted 13 February 2008 - 08:37 PM
I will give some credit to the Multi part molds though. Many model kits today (such as Gundams) have runners where different sections of a single runner are 2 or more different colors. This would make it feasible that the multi part molds are possible, yet it could be possible that they fuse the different color runner parts together after they are molded. There are always these round fuse spots on these multi colored runners, where the two or more colored parts are combined.
#75
Posted 13 February 2008 - 08:48 PM
I think between Alex's string and the color code, there is no doubt that there were definitely 2+ mirrored trees per part.