73 replies to this topic

[Soupie]

It was hosted by Comcast, who I'm no longer with. It's possible I've already transferred everything to Jkaris' server; if I did, it's just a matter of finding the link, haha. If I didn't, than I can talk with Jkaris about hosting this site as well.

[Skullcruncher]

It was hosted by Comcast, who I'm no longer with. It's possible I've already transferred everything to Jkaris' server; if I did, it's just a matter of finding the link, haha. If I didn't, than I can talk with Jkaris about hosting this site as well.

That would be great if you can, more information available the better. I had about 7 of these guys but moved house now I can only find 3.

Anyone know why they are classified as premiums? I mean they were not short/blind packed and there is no evidence to say some are 'chase items'.

[FANtomCore]

That would be great if you can, more information available the better. I had about 7 of these guys but moved house now I can only find 3.

Anyone know why they are classified as premiums? I mean they were not short/blind packed and there is no evidence to say some are 'chase items'.

There premiums because they are rare and limited. Only available in Japan and required you to get them all to properly complete each figure with it's corresponding weapon.

[Skullcruncher]

There premiums because they are rare and limited. Only available in Japan and required you to get them all to properly complete each figure with it's corresponding weapon.

Sorry but just because its from Japan doesn't mean its rare and there is no evidence production was limited. For example with G1 Transformers there were several combiner transformers only released in Japan. So unless the kid was lucky enough to get a giftset they would have to buy each one individually. Once they have all 6 then they could combine them into a larger super transformer, so a similar concept to keep you buying more to complete the set.

Yes they are hard to find and yes you'll have a lot more luck in one of Japans speciality stores but I believe they are not true premiums like stone cobra, the prize drill or even one of the three holographic cards.

Looking at my ones now they arn't mint and appear to have been on the end of more than one pen/pencil. I would guess many hundreds became victims of their owners through general use as unlike the battlebeasts they arn't particulary hardy.

[Toxoviper]

Sorry but just because its from Japan doesn't mean its rare and there is no evidence production was limited. For example with G1 Transformers there were several combiner transformers only released in Japan. So unless the kid was lucky enough to get a giftset they would have to buy each one individually. Once they have all 6 then they could combine them into a larger super transformer, so a similar concept to keep you buying more to complete the set.

Yes they are hard to find and yes you'll have a lot more luck in one of Japans speciality stores but I believe they are not true premiums like stone cobra, the prize drill or even one of the three holographic cards.

Looking at my ones now they arn't mint and appear to have been on the end of more than one pen/pencil. I would guess many hundreds became victims of their owners through general use as unlike the battlebeasts they arn't particulary hardy.

There premiums because they are rare and limited. Only available in Japan and required you to get them all to properly complete each figure with it's corresponding weapon.

[Toxoviper]

Sorry but just because its from Japan doesn't mean its rare and there is no evidence production was limited. For example with G1 Transformers there were several combiner transformers only released in Japan. So unless the kid was lucky enough to get a giftset they would have to buy each one individually. Once they have all 6 then they could combine them into a larger super transformer, so a similar concept to keep you buying more to complete the set.

Yes they are hard to find and yes you'll have a lot more luck in one of Japans speciality stores but I believe they are not true premiums like stone cobra, the prize drill or even one of the three holographic cards.

Looking at my ones now they arn't mint and appear to have been on the end of more than one pen/pencil. I would guess many hundreds became victims of their owners through general use as unlike the battlebeasts they arn't particulary hardy.

SD Beastformers are just as rare as the rest of the premiums.
Maybe even more so complete with correct weapon.

The evidence to support limited production is the current rarity.

Very few show up for sale and when they do they command a premium, hence being listed as such.

Just because the value is not as high as some of the other premiums just means collectors are only willing to pay but so much for them.

[Skullcruncher]

SD Beastformers are just as rare as the rest of the premiums.
Maybe even more so complete with correct weapon.

The evidence to support limited production is the current rarity.

Very few show up for sale and when they do they command a premium, hence being listed as such.

Just because the value is not as high as some of the other premiums just means collectors are only willing to pay but so much for them.

Right they command a premium price, but they are still not Premium themselves, they are only 'premium' because some collectors go hard buying them at whatever price as when they see one they want they snap it up right away. There are always subsets of various toy lines that command a higher price for whatever reason. If there was some massive dead stock find where any collector could have a complete set of SD's would they still be premiums?

Stone Cobra was designed as a premium figure. SD BB's were not.

[FANtomCore]

Sorry but just because its from Japan doesn't mean its rare and there is no evidence production was limited.

It does mean they were only available in 1 country like the premiums you spoke of, that in it of itself makes the production limited unlike the regular BBs which were manufactured globally. They came in boxes or in capsules, you can tell what you can try to get from the capsules within the coin machine but you couldn't tell from the boxes. It also means you could not specifically buy them individually much like the other BB premiums.

Also it's rare because let's see you try to get a genuine complete set and not pay a pretty penny to do so. The thing is, even if you had the money to buy them all in one shot, it will be an effort to find someone who has such a set, much less is willing to let them go...because of it's rarity.

Also a complete set could vary into 3 different color schemes, making it that much more difficult to get every SD BB there is, much like the difficulty of Greek Beasts. So in essence you would need like 3 complete sets in different colors (60 SD BBs) to truly get every SD BB there could be. Not really practical, but adds to there rare value.

Individually a SD BB isn't more valuable than any of the premium BBs, but a complete set could be more rare then all 5 of the BB premiums combined.

I really want the site back up so I can check up on these facts. But I'm pretty sure SD BBs are rare no matter how you cut it, and that demands a premium price to buy them.

[Toxoviper]

Right they command a premium price, but they are still not Premium themselves, they are only 'premium' because some collectors go hard buying them at whatever price as when they see one they want they snap it up right away. There are always subsets of various toy lines that command a higher price for whatever reason. If there was some massive dead stock find where any collector could have a complete set of SD's would they still be premiums?

Stone Cobra was designed as a premium figure. SD BB's were not.

Stone Cobra was designed as a mail-away.

The SD Beastformers were sold in the exact same gumball capsules as the Gumball Beastformers.
Are you going to argue the Gumball Beasts are also not premiums ?

The Sunburst Leo, Clear Carp and Ghost Gator were all sold in standard box sets.

These toys are all premium because they were all only produced in limited numbers sold only in Japan.

If a toys rarity,value, and limited production leading to a high premium on the after market do not lead it to being a "premium" in your eyes then nothing more I can say will convince you.

[FANtomCore]

Also this image of an official BeastFormers display pretty much confirms the Japanese premium items, which includes SD BBs.

[Skullcruncher]

It does mean they were only available in 1 country like the premiums you spoke of, that in it of itself makes the production limited unlike the regular BBs which were manufactured globally. They came in boxes or in capsules, you can tell what you can try to get from the capsules within the coin machine but you couldn't tell from the boxes. It also means you could not specifically buy them individually much like the other BB premiums.

Also it's rare because let's see you try to get a genuine complete set and not pay a pretty penny to do so. The thing is, even if you had the money to buy them all in one shot, it will be an effort to find someone who has such a set, much less is willing to let them go...because of it's rarity.

Also a complete set could vary into 3 different color schemes, making it that much more difficult to get every SD BB there is, much like the difficulty of Greek Beasts. So in essence you would need like 3 complete sets in different colors (60 SD BBs) to truly get every SD BB there could be. Not really practical, but adds to there rare value.

Individually a SD BB isn't more valuable than any of the premium BBs, but a complete set could be more rare then all 5 of the BB premiums combined.

I really want the site back up so I can check up on these facts. But I'm pretty sure SD BBs are rare no matter how you cut it, and that demands a premium price to buy them.

Totally agree with you regarding the difficulty in finding these guys and completing a set of 60 would be a massive task. Of course there were only enough made for the Japanese market but within that they still would have made enough to more than meet the demand of the day. I mean the whole point of them is to collect all 60 right? So there would have been more than sufficient producded to meet the expected demand. As they were sold in capsules or boxes there must have been many produced.

Another example with transformers. In the US there was trading cards set of 160. In Australia there was a subset of 100. Each set was produced in sufficient numbers for their own market. Does this mean the australian cards - produced in numbers for a much smaller population should be called premiums? No.

Hopefully there is some way to restore the site. As a side question, what if there was a higher level SD BB? Say a single Premium white SD BB that could only be obtained in a competition or some other method. Would the 60 still be 'Premium'?

So my Summary

Reasons for calling them premiums:
- They are hard to find in 2012
- There is a reasonably high demand for them
- The high demand pushes up the prices

Reasons for not calling them premiums
- They were not designed as premiums
- They would have been produced in sufficent numbers for complete sets to be obtain relativly easy (~1987)

[Skullcruncher]

Also this image of an official BeastFormers display pretty much confirms the Japanese premium items, which includes SD BBs.

Wow that is a great photo, thanks for sharing. I understand that is actually a promo to show what is part of the line rather than what are the premiums. I can't see what is written next the SD's.

[Skullcruncher]

Stone Cobra was designed as a mail-away. Correct.

The SD Beastformers were sold in the exact same gumball capsules as the Gumball Beastformers.
Are you going to argue the Gumball Beasts are also not premiums ? Yes I would, they are a particular line within BB's.

The Sunburst Leo, Clear Carp and Ghost Gator were all sold in standard box sets. Right

These toys are all premium because they were all only produced in limited numbers sold only in Japan. The above are not SD BB's.

If a toys rarity,value, and limited production leading to a high premium on the after market do not lead it to being a "premium" in your eyes then nothing more I can say will convince you.

I am not trolling as you so kindly posted on my profile. I was just asking a question as someone relativly new to collecting BB's and expressing my opinion. I have messaged you previously asking someone who appeared to be a knowledgable collector help me with Japanese BB's which you never replied to. If this is the attitude you have to new members and others asking questions then I would question why do you bother at all.

[FANtomCore]

Wow that is a great photo, thanks for sharing. I understand that is actually a promo to show what is part of the line rather than what are the premiums. I can't see what is written next the SD's.

Not just what is apart of the line, but what are premium items to get within it. Notice how they are showing mostly specialty items, no where do you see regular Beastformers. It does show a couple of BB variants and for some reason Puzzle Color and Sea Panic (I guess they are to represent the new Laser Beasts) but other than those, everything else you see is more rare/premium because of not being able to buy them the traditional way.

Edited by FANtomCore, 16 December 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[FANtomCore]

So my Summary

Reasons for calling them premiums:
- They are hard to find in 2012 YUP but even long before that.
- There is a reasonably high demand for them YUP but low supply.
- The high demand pushes up the prices YUP but also the low supply too.

Reasons for not calling them premiums
- They were not designed as premiums Wrong they were distributed in a specialty method, [i.e. capsule machine, blind boxes. All premiums were disturbed in a specialty method. So yes they are premiums.
- They would have been produced in sufficent numbers for complete sets to be obtain relativly easy (~1987) Not necessarily, going back to it having 3 different color schemes to it, that would make it a challenge to get them all even back then because it was more random then anything else. Your best shot was to focus on getting 20 different SD BBs to get a complete set and match up there weapons. That in of itself is a challenge, forget about getting 3 complete sets in the 3 different colors. The randomness of its distribution would guarantee nothing. You'd have to buy a case or two to get that done. Back then regular people couldn't buy stuff in that manner, until ebay was born.

The SD Beastformers were sold in the exact same gumball capsules as the Gumball Beastformers.
Are you going to argue the Gumball Beasts are also not premiums ? Yes I would, they are a particular line within BB's.

This Gumball Beasts and SD BBs are premiums. They are obtain through specialty means, you cannot buy them the common way you would buy other BB merchandise, also the element of chance makes it more difficult for you to get the specific SD BB you wanted.

No offense, but you seem to be stubbornly refusing to accept SD BBs are premium items, even though I posted an image as proof, and also the information of it specialty distribution. Your whole belief is that the 5 Premiums are the only Premiums, but the fact is those 5 Premiums are only available in Japan and were not distributed in the common retail method, just like SD BBs. You see the correlation there? I agree with Toxo if you can't see that, then there is nothing else I will say to convince you otherwise.

[Skullcruncher]

This Gumball Beasts and SD BBs are premiums. They are obtain through specialty means, you cannot buy them the common way you would buy other BB merchandise, also the element of chance makes it more difficult for you to get the specific SD BB you wanted.

No offense, but you seem to be stubbornly refusing to accept SD BBs are premium items, even though I posted an image as proof, and also the information of it specialty distribution. Your whole belief is that the 5 Premiums are the only Premiums, but the fact is those 5 Premiums are only available in Japan and were not distributed in the common retail method, just like SD BBs. You see the correlation there? I agree with Toxo if you can't see that, then there is nothing else I will say to convince you otherwise.

Thanks FANtomCore for your paitence - I did not realise SD's were blind packaged, all the references I had seen previously was boxed but not blind packed. See my first post for my ignorance.

Lego Minifigures are blind packed yes? This does not make them premiums in countrys where they were not released.

Look this is not soviet russia so we can have different opinions, the photo you provided is great but what is its origin? Now this is going to send Toxo into somekind of meltdown but why is the text in english when this is the Japanese product line? Also where is the copyright information that is on all official takara products? I'm happy to be proved wrong, but perhaps this photo could be fan made? I would love a front on photo for closer review.

Yes their distribution methods makes it impossibly hard to complete but I still believe the SD beasts were not considered Premiums when they were released, collectors have categorised them as that now for the reasons you have outlined. If expressing this opinion gets me banned or whatever so be it.

[lhssenior]

Premium is word with a very arbitrary definition in toy collecting. What one person considers a premium or even what one manufacturer considers a premium can vary wildly from toyline to toyline or collector to collector. It's the equivalent over arguing whether a figure is rare or not, it al deends on what you're comparing it to. If Skullcruncher does not believe they are premiums, then to him they are not. If the rest of us consider them premiums then to us they are.

Since Johnny constructed the archive and he believes they are premiums than that is the section they are listed under. When Skullcruncher constructs his archive, he is free to list them as anything he wants. Neither will be incorrect
-Barry

[WarOnTheShore]

Also this image of an official BeastFormers display pretty much confirms the Japanese premium items, which includes SD BBs.

What is this from?

[lord]

The background of this display case is not an official item. It was added to the case (which is official) to make it look more attractive.

[Ericnilla]

barry has it right. I think you guys are thinking too much into the word Premium. They weren't released here and they are really hard to get, leave it at that. There are many different uses of the word, I'm sure it means different things to different people.

[Skullcruncher]

Thanks guys - yes I think we are guilty of bashing the word Premium almost to death. Back to the thread topic - hopefully the site can be restored as I would love to see all these guys in their glory.

Edited by Skullcruncher, 17 December 2012 - 05:44 PM.

[jkaris]

It was hosted by Comcast, who I'm no longer with. It's possible I've already transferred everything to Jkaris' server; if I did, it's just a matter of finding the link, haha. If I didn't, than I can talk with Jkaris about hosting this site as well.

Yeah, that directory is empty. You'll need to re-upload it. PM me if the ftp doesn't let you in.

[Soupie]

Back online thank to Jkaris! I seem to recall having the archive complete, all figures and weapons. However, it appears that I'm missing a few figures and weapons... Am I just remember wrong? Does anyobidy else remember?

Enjoy!

Soupie's and Fitz' Beast Formers SD Archive

(There's a few Meiji cards missing too. I have them and will add them shortly.)

[Skullcruncher]

Back online thank to Jkaris! I seem to recall having the archive complete, all figures and weapons. However, it appears that I'm missing a few figures and weapons... Am I just remember wrong? Does anyobidy else remember?

Enjoy!

Soupie's and Fitz' Beast Formers SD Archive

(There's a few Meiji cards missing too. I have them and will add them shortly.)

What a great resource! Thanks so much for getting it back up.