127 replies to this topic

[THEGODBEAST]

so nice to hear from you too, General Veers.. and yes, of course I've read all the threads. =)

One word for THE GOD BEAST... - AWESOME!
I swung on over to your site, and I must say that your work is very Impressive!!

As far as the question goes, I was born and raised in Beautiful "Smoggy" California. I was living in Glendale to be exact. Its a little ironic, because my wife & I still live in Glendale today.. "Different house though" LoL

Dave
jax0n@charter.net

THANKS!!!

Here is my theory:

SHA, BHS, DM, and DE were ALL test market figures that came out early on.

Look at the FOP Xars/Australian yellow packs from MOOSE that surfaced test marketed in AZ! They had Canadian and Australian Xars inside and NOT the USA Xar!!!

Then...some of those test market yellow packs showed up in NE, IA, and MO (probably in every state). The test market packs were easy to see because they were yellow backer cards instead of blue backer cards.

I am 99.9% sure that the SHA, BHS, DM, and DE are ALL test market figures that were in some of the first packages and then eliminated when the first shipments were depleted.

TGB

[arforbes]

Hell, someone forward him a screen shot from that BHS auction this year that went for close to a grand! Really though, can you imagine the exposure the community would get based on Toyfare running an article about the super rares and their astronomical prices? Every one and their brother would be digging through attics looking for their MUSCLEs, which would do 3 things:

Hey Johnny,

Here is the pic of that BHS auction figure that went for over $910...

Alex

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[arforbes]

And here is a pic of the back of the figure in that same auction...

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•  BHS_Auction2.jpg   14.68K   18 downloads

[Soupie]

Also, I have (1) grape colored figure which I have no clue where it came from.  My point being, is that I stopped collecting M.U.S.C.L.E.s before the colored ones ever came out.

Well, this seems to at least fit with TGB's theory of early test market figures.

** This next bit of info has nothing to do with (SHA), but I thought it might be pretty cool for all of the Mattel enthusiasts here.  I spoke to my mom earlier today and she told me something that I totally forgot about.  (I was really young)..  Back in '78, she was the Executive Secretary to some Big-Wig Controller at Mattel back when it was still in Hawthorne.  His last name was Rioux. This is what she tells me..

Damn, too bad you traded for the figure... Are you sure your Mom didn't somehow get this figure through work. (That would be just too perfect, I guess...)

He was really short, and had a bunch of brothers & sisters.

Hm, did he drink a lot of Nestle Quick?



Jkaris, awesome letter! Maybe they will at least put some of the info in the letter to the editor section.

[Soupie]

It sounds like a found figure or a traded figure. I don't remember all the trades I made. It's probably just from the board game. And MUSCLE was only around for two years. It's not crazy to think that by the time kids were collecting them, the color figures were released soon after. The simplest answer is usually the right one.

I'm not sure what your conclusion is here? Are you saying this means SHA was produced early, or are you saying his info doesn't help determine that? (Or are you saying something completely unrelated?)

Wow, that is a lot of Nestle figures... Personally, all those common figures lead me to think it's unlikely that Mattel would make two (SHA, BHS) or four (DE, DM) special figures to be released amongst them. And why haven't they been found in a bag?

Also, TGB, if they were test market figures, how many would have been made? Are we talking 50 figures, or are we talking 1,000?

[Soupie]

I agree it was a regular figure. I was focusing in on the fact that he stopped collecting MUSCLEs before colored MUSCLE came out, but had a SHA. Which means the SHA was available, perhaps, before colored MUSCLEs were.

Do we know when the Nestle Quick promotion was available? Would it have been right at the start of the MUSCLE run, throughout, or at the end?

Perhaps a call or a letter to Nestle might be a good idea. Who knows, maybe they keep insanely detailed records. It may be worth a shot. Any shred of info is valuable.

Perhaps they could answer:

1) When the promotion was begun and ended.
2) How many figures were offered.
3) Which figures were offered (highly doubtful).

Damn, why the hell were these figures made?

[gilgar]

I found this Nestle/MUSCLE ad which mentions there are 233 figures. While this doesn't completely rule out the Nestle theory as there could have been test marketing there as well it does kind of put a damper on it.



EDIT: Just noticed it's on your website Veers! Duh, and in your banner

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Edited by gilgar, 26 September 2005 - 12:57 PM.

[doc_moore_j]

One more day left, and this auction isn't anywhere near what the BHS one went for. I think it is safe to say this will be mine in a few days. As long as my anti sniping bid holds up hahahaha.

[arforbes]

One more day left, and this auction isn't anywhere near what the BHS one went for. I think it is safe to say this will be mine in a few days. As long as my anti sniping bid holds up hahahaha.

Hell yeah! I hope you get it Doc! Good luck!

I will be watching this one, but no way I'm bidding. I hope someone from the boards gets it!

[doc_moore_j]

So much for my anti sniping bid hahahahaha. I knew it would not hold, plus you guys know my wife, she'd have my nuts for spending that much on a toy hahahahaha.

[Soupie]

So much for my anti sniping bid hahahahaha.

In the voice of Darth Vader: "NOOOoooooOOOOOOOO!"

More SR specualtion:

1) SC and the super-rares come from related parts, right?

2) SC and the super-rares have only been found in flesh.

3) There is a poster which vaguely shows "other" figures.

Perhaps their limited number and flesh color are a result of one or two of the molds being damaged early on, curtailing the production of more than a few flesh figures and no colored figures. (I think someone said this before.)

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

I was just thinking. What do you guys think the likeliness of the original molds still being in existence are? I mean some guy who worked at the factory probably took all the molds home with him after they canceled the line. That would just be awesome for one of us to find a box full of muscle molds at the flea market or something.

As for soupies idea about damaged molds. That's a good hypothesis. It shouldn't be to much of a mystery why they did or didn't stop producing certain figures. I mean they probably got more molds sent to them than they were supposed to. They probably didn't intend to release a second wave of figures, and possibly someone noticed that there were molds being used that were not supposed to be in the series, so they made the factory pull the molds out of the line up. Satan Cross is probably more common simply because he was one of the earlier molds that they used. When someone caught that SC wasn't supposed to be there they pulled him and a couple new molds they sent like Dark Emperor, Black Hole Sunshine, and Drunken Master. Chances are there were dozens of other molds that were accidentally sent to the factories. This is feasible, simply because no one has found a colored Satan Cross. This means, as soupie said, the mold was broken or they pulled him before they started doing colored figures. No one has found a Satan Cross in a mixed pack yet have they? Just an idea. Honestly there shouldn't be a big Muscle conspiracy behind it all. I doubt the guys said to themselves, lets release a couple molds that were not on the poster so that 20 years from now when the kids start collecting them again, they will find them and go nuts trying to figure out if the figures are authentic. Of course if it were me, I would do that.

[Soupie]

Maybe if you're in Japan. MUSCLE's weren't made in the US. Bandai made them in Asia, but Mattel sold them in the US.

I mean they probably got more molds sent to them than they were supposed to. They probably didn't intend to release a second wave of figures, and possibly someone noticed that there were molds being used that were not supposed to be in the series, so they made the factory pull the molds out of the line up.

Okay, perhaps it wasn't the molds that were sent incorrectly, rather there were figures that were sent incorrectly.

I agree with URS that there is a good likelyhood that the rare figures weren't a purposeful phenomenon. That's what got me thinking about the possibility of the molds being damaged some how.

The idea that figures were incorrectly produced in Japan (especially figures from the same or related parts) and then sent to Mattel, who then erronously packaged a few and sent them out to stores makes perfect sense.

We all know how hard it is to tell all 233 MUSCLEs apart. If the Mattel workers had a few hundred incorrect figures sent to them, perhaps:

1) They recognized the error, contacted Bandai, but packaged the extra figures anyway.

2) Accidently packaged the extra figures, recognized the error, and then contacted Bandai.

This theory also works with the lack of any advertising or poster inclusion of the SRs, while the Nestle Quick theory does not.

Furthermore, SC and the other SRs have only been found in flesh (and it's safe to say they always will be, especially SC). Also, SC has been found in a flesh four pack, and the seller of the mint BHS reports finding it in a four pack (probably because that's all they remember buying).

Anyhow, factory error seems to be a pretty solid theory to me, at least right up there with the Test Market theory.

[jkaris]

The idea that figures were incorrectly produced in Japan (especially figures from the same or related parts) and then sent to Mattel, who then erronously packaged a few and sent them out to stores makes perfect sense.

Make sense to me.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Maybe if you're in Japan. MUSCLE's weren't made in the US. Bandai made them in Asia, but Mattel sold them in the US.

I know that, but who here has never found a something at a yard sale, or thrift store, or the fleamarket for that matter that shouldn't even be in this country? A guy could have gave the molds to his kids, who moved to America for equal opportunities! Hey it's possible!

[jax0n]

Well everyone, the FAT lady has sung... The Auction ended this morning at a Bid of $407.00
I'm not sure, but I really hope the buyer is someone from this board, but my gut feeling tells me he isn't. =(

and I totally see where you all were coming from regarding the "Feedback" score, because the buyer has a Feedback of (5). Damn, I hope I don't get burned..

After the Auction, the buyer sent me the following message:
---------------------------------------
Hello , my name is Ricardo , I am from Brazil and I am the winner of that SHA . I am the biggest MUSCLE collector of my country and that figure is very important to me and my collection . I am very worried because I bought a lot of 50 MUSCLES in the begining of August and it not arrived yet even using insurance . So , as I invest so much money in this SHA , I NEED to certify it will arrive to me SECURITY and in a short time . So , please , check shipping methods like FedEx , Global Express , Global Priority or Air Parcel Post and send me the prices .I will pay you by Paypal as soon as we do reach the final price .
Thaks,
Ricardo .
---------------------------------------
hmmm, any thoughts on this you guys. I would really appreciate it. I figure that anyone who claims to be the BIGGEST M.U.S.C.L.E. collector of any country, should have crossed the paths of the elite AKIA crew at sometime in the past. ... I hope..

Thanks again,
jax0n (Dave)

[Beligerant1]

Haha wow, that reminds me of the spam emails I get from guys in nigeria that want to rent a room from me or have me hold a million bucks for them. Not saying the guy isnt legit, but thats just how it strikes me.

Keep us updated on how it goes.

Edited by Beligerant1, 28 September 2005 - 04:36 AM.

[doc_moore_j]

I have dealth with a Ricardo from Brazil before, he had a different Ebay name though. But, how many Ricardo's from Brazil are the country's biggest collectors hahahaha. If it is the same dude, he is good to go, he used to sell a bunch of four packs on ebay, and shipping always took over a month, but I always got my shizznit.

On a side note, congratulations on the sell. I wish I had won that little bugger, but on a positive note I am $350 richer for not winning it hahahahaha.

[TheOrgg]

Personally, I'd be a little afraid of a Paypal scheme, myself.

Then again, Doc has verified him...

[Mr. T]

There's always the second highest bidder....