87 replies to this topic

[iwao]

I'd love for someone to show me how I'm wrong in my thinking it is a fake. Honestly, I don't care about the figure - but I'd love to know how to discover the authenticity without touching it or inspecting it.

Do you think a MUSCLE collector could have a fake in hand like vader does and not know it's a fake, or do you have a problem with Jay saying he knew it was real when he was bidding on it?

 

 

* Just posting on behalf of Matt/Vader

 

Cool Iwao custom. I like the SD Metaluna Mutant too.

[Clawfreak]

Me doing my homework is asking the seller many questions as possible, having her send me more pics, and yes having eBay protection is helpful but I've held and seen enough to not have to have it in hand to spot the not. I dont have a PhD, a Muscle website, nor claim to know everything but I can tell u I believe Matt, have proof many don't on it, and I collect claws. I would hope I know this much......Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but by the end of the day it's Matt that scored a gem by doing his homework too. Sometimes it pays off. I'm sure the magnificent eleven were a pretty similar issue until in hand.

Edited by Clawfreak, 25 June 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[walker13.1]

Then maybe I'm asking to be taught.

 

Knowing the difference between resin and a MUSCLE figure is like knowing the difference between sand and snow.

 

But if there's some way to do great "homework" to uncover the authenticity, then I'd love to know. Even if it's just buy and use the eBay Buyer Protection, then I'd like to know. I'm open to learning. I'd love to learn something new that I didn't before. I'd love for someone to show me how I'm wrong in my thinking it is a fake. Honestly, I don't care about the figure - but I'd love to know how to discover the authenticity without touching it or inspecting it.

 

Respectfully, why do you care so much?  Why are you beating a dead horse?  Why can't you believe the buyer?  If the buyer turned into a seller, then yes, I would see your concern, but that is not the case.  It's really not difficult to tell real from fake when the figure is in hand.   

 

Has the buyer checked (I'll continue to beat a dead horse too):

 

1.  How it feels in comparison to other figures?

2.  It's smell?

3.  Markings?

4.  Flashing around figure?

 

If buyer turns to seller then I would be asking specific questions like:

 

1.  Very close up pictures front and back to include a picture of it next to other purple figures.

2.  How did he get it (I know this wouldn't be needed for this auction, but it's a common one I ask). 

3.  How does it feel?

[Rubberhammer]

Personally, I don't see why anyone would lie, about owning a figure that isn't even really rare. Matt/Vader is a collector, and I imagine that he can tell the difference between a repro and a genuine muscle, it's not really hard to do.

If he had remained quiet about the purchase, none of this discussion would have happened. He did however come forward to let the community know that it was indeed a board member who won the auction.

Since some people must SEE proof in order to beleive things, I beleive that his refusal/inability to simply provide better, higher quality pics, is what is raising the concern.

[walker13.1]

I beleive that his refusal/inability to simply provide better, higher quality pics, is what is raising the concern.

 

As the buyer, he owes the board absolutely nothing.  If he decides to sell, then these need to be provided. 

[Clawfreak]

He won't be selling it nor sending it to someone to verify for him. The thought of him sending it to someone to verify it for him in my opinion is extremely insulting ....Should I send out all my SR's to be verified, no. There is more than one person that can tell if in fact things are legit or not, Matt owes nobody anything nor an explanation of any sort. In fact, him coming to the board and even telling anyone he got it was more than I thought he should since he rarely posts, now I know why.....

 

How about a simple congrats man, nice score!! Not... it's a fake, it's grape or lighter shade, shenanigans, it's smaller, or my personal fav.......Story reeks of bullshit.    

 

 I think it's time to lay this one to rest, i'm sure we all have better things to do, or not.........I know I do.

Edited by Clawfreak, 25 June 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[walker13.1]

Story reeks of trolling. 

[Moistsloth]

As a teacher I always tried to get across the concept that skepticism is not bad or evil. It is vital to society. Especially in a small collecting community like ours. It effects all of us if an ebay seller is passing off repros as real.

 

Why is it a bad thing that Veers said the story as presented sounds like bullshit? 

 

I’m happy the guy is happy. But the story as presented does sound like bullshit. 

 

Every time a seller refuses to post complete pictures, even though they know it will up the value we should be skeptical. Especially when they are giving the proceeds to a soup kitchen.

[Rubberhammer]

I don't beleive the buyer owes anyone here anything, either.
And, I do beleive that Matt/Vader can tell a repro from an authentic muscle. He took one of the pics on a muscle shirt, not too many people just have those lying around if they don't love the line.

I also do think that the suggestion having it sent off to be authenticated is kind of an insult to a collectors intelligence. He just spent $500+ on the thing, I'm pretty sure it wasn't his first muscle purchase.

All I was trying to say is, that all of the previous arguement could have been prevented, if he had supplied just one more decent pic.

I wasn't saying he should be obligated to.

I was just saying that it would have been nice.

Edited by Rubberhammer, 25 June 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[TMAN]

I say we cut the claw in half to see if its real.....

[walker13.1]

 

As a teacher I always tried to get across the concept that skepticism is not bad or evil. It is vital to society. Especially in a small collecting community like ours. It effects all of us if an ebay seller is passing off repros as real.

 

Why is it a bad thing that Veers said the story as presented sounds like bullshit? 

 

I’m happy the guy is happy. But the story as presented does sound like bullshit. 

 

Every time a seller refuses to post complete pictures, even though they know it will up the value we should be skeptical. Especially when they are giving the proceeds to a soup kitchen.

 

 

The item has been sold.  Now he is beating a dead horse with the buyer.  The buyer has said already that it's real.  When the buyer says it's real it's time to let it go.  You have to ask yourself why does he persist on this "conquest."  He is doubting the buyer's ability to tell if it's real or not.  It doesn't take much skill to tell if a figure is real or not. The buyer owes the collecting community absolutely nothing.  If the buyer turns into seller then yes, more specifics will need to be provided. 

Edited by walker13.1, 26 June 2013 - 02:57 AM.

[Clawfreak]

I don't think I made it clear enough. I'm past the Purple Claw. If he says it's real then fine. Nobody has to send me anything, and I never asked. I'm just talking now. I think it is interesting to talk about how a fake can be spotted. Using this specific figure makes for a good example to talk about. I like thinking about these things. It is interesting to me. I like talking about it. I don't know why that puts anyone on the defensive - really, I don't.
 
I think we're going to start seeing more high quality fakes. Not resin copies. Not really nice work from Eric or Luke or anybody. And certainly not art - high quality fakes. It's becoming ripe for it. It feels like we're entering a period of collecting with a perfect blend of knowledge and naivety. For a scammer with resources MUSCLE is the perfect target.
 
 
Thanks for sharing that Jason, that's what I figured. But I've seen a lot of figures too - that doesn't mean I always believe what I see. So that's my question (the stuff in bold), how do you know? What do you look for in the picture? Is there one key thing or a few tell-tale signs? I'd love to know!
 
The second piece of bolded text I just wasn't sure about. Did you mean something from the seller or buyer (seriously, I don't even know who bought it - sorry)? Or was it something else that you did to figure it out. If it's the latter, then, again, I'd love to know.
 
 
 
I hope people don't think I'm trying to piss in some guy's cornflakes. I'm not. I think we're having a good conversation. Sorry if I read it wrong.

Nah Chad, I know you mean well...I think it was saying his story was bullshit off the bat is what got to me a bit, the rest was fine. It could be easy for someone to say Stoney's story was bullshit but all you have to go by is trust in someone and get educated on how he looked, searched, found, etc. I trust Stoney and his story but even if he was wrong and lied what does that matter to me? Heck, I would care less if he even had one but I know he does cause he is a good friend, and a good member, and done me well in the past as did Matt so I trust them. I would be happy for anyone who finds any rare Muscle item cheap like Matt and others did. But whatever story they give to us we kind of have to believe cause it is their word. I would never call anyone a liar or say that story is false and really they would have no reason to prove it as long as they are happy with what they have or end results.

As for looking for things, I look at color, size, flash in certain places, markings, etc. Before I bid on anything I have the seller/ trader take many pics with and without flash to help with my research on the item. Sure, you can't be guaranteed anything but it helps to do "homework" instead of jumping the gun and assuming. Having Ebay buyers protection and Paypal as "Goods" so you are covered is a key to getting things of that nature but making sure and searching the web, forums, and talking to others who are also educated on the matter helps. I know a ton of old members I still to this day I go to when I need an opinion but also have a bunch asking me what I think. I do not mind at all passing on help as anyone on the board here can say that have asked me for help I have 100% helped them in any way that I could. I love for people to score things that they are looking for, hell...I love to help them get what they need if I can. My eyes are trained very well to look at photos in order to spot the not. Plus having as many Claws in this case I think I should know how to tell real from fake. I have other things I do too but I can't give away all my secrets, lol...