356 replies to this topic

[Talyn]

DSTZach,

I admit it is not really a "review", more just random thoughts on the concept itself, but that's not what we do at AFP, we pretty much let the photos do most of the speaking.

As for contact with you, I understand at a large con like that it can be hard to remember who said what etc, but I did introduce myself Friday morning before taking photos and described where I was from. Then later on Saturday I gave my card and similarly introduced myself to one of the other DST Reps there, but got the same response regarding the Exclusive. Honestly I'm going to let not getting a free toy turn my thoughts on an entire line sour, so I hope that's not how you took it. The larger point of the article was to make it clear to people that these are not related in any way to the classic Battle Beasts that we love, a point you made very clear at the panel.

Regarding the "Lego" comment, if you read the entire paragraph, you can see I am attempting to describe to someone who may not know what Minimates are, in general terms. "Minimates is a long running line of small, almost Lego-like mini figures Diamond Select has been making for about 10 years. They mostly share parts and are made different with additional accessories and custom paintjobs." Nothing there says that sharing parts is bad, I'm just trying to describe them as a figure base, which is what they are.

Regardless, I'm probably still going to buy a few of these, as I really liked the Snake and Spider renderings shown at the panel, I just have some issues that are more related to the concept and rights that DST has regarding the name, and not the previous Takara line. I handed off one of my extra Red ones to Pixel Dan, so he should have his thoughts up shortly.

Edited by Talyn, 22 April 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Ghost Lion]

Welcome, Talyn! Good to see you here.

[Toxoviper]

DST waited way to long to make these a reality.
Even now having prototypes/images being held back while Takara has their offerings up for preorder.

I'm interested in just seeing the Cobra,spider and the alike but won't be getting behind this line.

I think buying up the old name was just a poor decision if it did not allow the company the rights to use the old designs/ideas.

[Ghost Lion]

Not necessarily a poor decision. I believe what they want was that name recognition to draw fans to the line, then when they held the product in hand be sold on the quality of what is being offered. Even IDW in their solicitation of teh comic is saying it is related to the 80's toyline, look at the bullet points:

Battle Beasts #1 (of 4)
Bobby Curnow (w) • Valerio Schiti (a) • Dan Brereton ©
It's just another average day for Bliss, an ignored linguist at the Department of Defense. However, when Bliss unlocks the secret translation of an ancient scroll, terror rains from the sky... in the form of the BATTLE BEASTS! Unstoppable creatures armed to the teeth, the Battle Beasts are determined to make Earth their own personal war zone. Nothing can stop their merciless carnage. Nothing except perhaps a gentle word from the one woman who can understand them—Bliss!
FC • 32 pages • $3.99

*Variant covers:
Wraparound Ulises Farinas cover!

Bullet Points:
• The beloved toys from the ‘80s come to life in a story with non-stop action!
• If you love Transformers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you'll love this tale of intergalactic creature mayhem!
• Wraparound Ulises Farinas cover!

[mannakat]

Regarding the "Lego" comment, if you read the entire paragraph, you can see I am attempting to describe to someone who may not know what Minimates are, in general terms. "Minimates is a long running line of small, almost Lego-like mini figures Diamond Select has been making for about 10 years. They mostly share parts and are made different with additional accessories and custom paintjobs." Nothing there says that sharing parts is bad, I'm just trying to describe them as a figure base, which is what they are.

I guess it might be a sore spot for some, to have them described that way. But they are reminiscent of lego figures, much like how the Fisher-Price Mega T-Rex and its playmates are reminiscent of Dino-Riders. It's an easy way to describe the figures to someone who may have never seen them before, but who may have seen their similar 'predecessors', to which your average reader will probably understand.

A few taking it the wrong way is unfortunate.

Either way, they did a fantastic job with the new sculpts/line and should be proud.

[WarOnTheShore]

Good on ya, TGB! I just paid the scalper prices, and it sucked.

[Bermuda Mohawk]

Battle Beasts #1 (of 4)
Bobby Curnow (w) • Valerio Schiti (a) • Dan Brereton ©
It's just another average day for Bliss, an ignored linguist at the Department of Defense. However, when Bliss unlocks the secret translation of an ancient scroll, terror rains from the sky... in the form of the BATTLE BEASTS! Unstoppable creatures armed to the teeth, the Battle Beasts are determined to make Earth their own personal war zone. Nothing can stop their merciless carnage. Nothing except perhaps a gentle word from the one woman who can understand them—Bliss!

That sounds awful. I'll have to see it in person.

Edited by Bermuda Mohawk, 22 April 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[FANtomCore]

Good on ya, TGB! I just paid the scalper prices, and it sucked.

Yeah I was forced to pay the scalper prices too. :/

[lord]

My 2 cents. The thing that disturbs me in the description done by Talyn is the "They mostly share parts and are made different with additional accessories and custom paintjobs." sentence. I don't think that Talyn has written this in order to say that this is a bad thing to share parts. What disturbs me is the fact that nearly every action figures lines are done this way and we never see this words when describing GI Joe or MOTUC. So I think that this could be miss interpreted. About the "Minimates is a long running line of small, almost Lego-like mini figures Diamond Select has been making for about 10 years." the important fact is not the "almost Lego-like" but the "long running line [...] Diamond Select has been making for about 10 years." Who can say now that their toy line is 10 years old ? Such a longevity is something rare. If Minimates was craps do you think that there would still be people to buy them after 10 years ? I have never been in Minimates and this will not change. I have received some as gift with the collector case I bought for the Gator included. I don't like them. They are not the only figures I don't like. But my childrens like them a lot and they don't like Battle Beasts. They don't like BB! What have I done wrong ?

Now about the BB precisely. We only have seen one sculpt so far as the gators don't count anymore). When I look at Vorin side by side with another Minimate I see more differences than similarities. Vorin has head, hands, torso and feet sculpted. That is mostly all the figure. So I don't care if there is a Minimate body under all of this. It seems that the others shown during the panel were even more sculpted and that there is at least one with 4 legs. I can't think of a lego figure with 4 legs but I'm not a Lego collector so maybe some exist. Same thing about the share parts. We should wait for more figures before being able to say that they share lot of parts.

[FANtomCore]

I never got the impression that the Battle Beasts mini-mates line was going to be basically recycling mini-mate parts, just the core body frame. From the 2 promos I have I knew they each figure was going to have many different sculpted parts indeed. The amount of parts involved in each figure is quite alot. Were as the original BBs consisted of only 4 pieces: the body the 2 arms and a weapon, DST BBs, have so many more parts to each figure. Whether you view this as a good or bad thing that's up to you, but it definitely means it will be harder to keep figures complete, since more parts, means more lost pieces.

[DSTZach]

,a
The weapons fit the hands very nicely. Also in some of the photo I saw during the panel the weapons can contact forming bigger weapons. Nice feature. Zach, quick question: on the reverse of Vorin's shield beneath the handle is a piece (almost looks like a landing gear wheel) what is it?

I believe it was meant to be another way to hold the shield, but I'm sure there's a specific function for it that's escaping me right now. Great meeting you, by the way!

I don't remember what this guy Vic said to me, but there are more toy blogs out there than there are Ram Minimates, at this point, and the figure was reserved for retailers, so not everyone was gonna get one. If Taryn had been LRG, i would've given him one, as promised. I hooked up Godbeast with an extra because I knew his reputation -- if I'd known it was gonna go to illustrate such a clearly biased article, I might have reconsidered. (No hard feelings, GB. )

People not liking or understanding Minimates is unfortunate, but I'm going to wait until October to write off people on this board, because I still think everyone will buy multiplies. They'll be highly poseable, endlessly customizable, and I think they'll fit in with people's existing collections. I don't want to debate whether removable parts makes them less sturdy, less character-filled or less desirable, I'll let the product speak for itself.

BUT I will take offense at the suggestion we're only out to make a quick buck. We trademarked a catchy, available name that had been dormant for 20 years, because we wanted to make cool toys that had a chance of surviving at retail. Armorvores and ROTB are fan-targeted, and can survive under any name; we're a mid-sized toy company, and we need a hook to move units at TRU. We've been making 2-inch figures for ten years; we waited two years to make sure we got it right, and to develop the story. In that time, three other groups moved to develop similar lines. People think we're keeping Hasbro from making their own BBs, but I think DST inspired a renaissance.

Edited by DSTZach, 22 April 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[jkaris]

Armorvores and ROTB are fan-targeted, and can survive under any name; we're a mid-sized toy company, and we need a hook to move units at TRU. We've been making 2-inch figures for ten years; we waited two years to make sure we got it right, and to develop the story. In that time, three other groups moved to develop similar lines. People think we're keeping Hasbro from making their own BBs, but I think DST inspired a renaissance.

What he said.

If Hasbro had any real interest in reviving the BB line, they would have done it years ago when they put out the Hyena concept sketch. Instead they did nothing with it. But you should understand that Hasbro had to look at the same issues as DST did: whether or not they could sell multiple thousands of each figure.

Regardless of whether the online Battle Beasts fandom will support it or not, the fact remains that we are a small niche group, good for 400-500 of each figure, maybe 1000 tops counting repaints. You can't go full production in a large company with shitloads of overhead and make a profit on those numbers, especially if you are selling your figures for $4-$5 each, which is dirt cheap. It just doesn't make business sense.

In regards to a portion of the LRG group not liking the figure styles or even not liking minimates in general, it really won't make much of an impact. These figures will hit retail and they will be the Battle Beasts for the current generation who will see kewl battling animals, a comic storyline and a very "impulse buy" friendly price. 2 Battle Beasts for the price of 1 GI Joe? Kids in the toy aisle will love them, and that is really the only thing that DST should be concerned with. I happen to love them, but even if I didn't, that has no bearing on whether or not the buyer for Wal-Mart, TRU or BBTS will buy a ton thinking that they will be the next big thing with kids.

I am jazzed to see all the beast figures from DST, Glyos and now Takara and am glad to see that each of them are giving new Battle Beasts a run.

I'm also glad to have Zach here to banter back and forth with us. Most people that work at large toy companies are business men, concerned only with making a buck and wouldn't give us the time of day. Zach is a huge toy nut like we are, so it's nice to have a "man on the inside" so to speak. Someone who gets where we are coming from.

[lord]

People think we're keeping Hasbro from making their own BBs, but I think DST inspired a renaissance.

This is certainly so much true. Hasbro/Takara had done nothing with the licence for allmost 23 years. Back in 2006 someone working for Hasbro asked for lot of materials in order to sell the idea of a return of the BB to his bosses. Years later we were still waiting for this return. Then Hasbro didn't secure the trademark which with no doubt mean that they didn't care about. Maybe Takara was working on the Beast Saga for years. Maybe they just stated working on it when DST got the trademark and help BB to be in the spot light. I don't know and we certainly will never know. What I know is that I will be able to get new BB figures. That's enough for me.

[NinjaBeast]

I'm looking for a red and gray if anyone wants to hook me up it would MUCH appreciated!!!

[FANtomCore]

Well I'm excited about all the Beast Battling goodness to come. We have been sorely lacking this for years unlike keshi's which we had plenty to choose from.

Edited by FANtomCore, 22 April 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Talyn]

Hey if anything, all this back and forth with DST and Takara has at least made Battle Beasts a hot topic at the moment, and when can you ever say that's happened in the general toy community? There's no such thing as bad publicity.

And for what it's worth, I'm rewriting parts of my article after rethinking it a bit, It does come off as harsher than I intended, and I certainly didn't mean to demean Minimates by comparing them to Lego, just trying to use my limited vocabulary to describe them.

Edited by Talyn, 22 April 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[FANtomCore]

Interesting, for all we know Hasbro might release the U.S. version of Beast Saga when the time comes. Until that is really known I'll import it all. The cool thing about DST's Battle Beasts is taking a trip to the local TRU is alot easier and cheaper than paying imported shipping.

[Drew]

Atleast the arms in Lego men didn't just fall off. The Minimates look has never appealed to me, but I love Battle Beasts and gave them a chance, I picked up a few of the Gator promos off eBay, the arms fall off so easily it's a joke, I picked up a red Vorin on eBay, it also has the same arm issue. The new line looks really awesome as does the comic, but apart from sitting on a shelf not being moved these "Battle Beasts" come apart too easily and make poor toys IMO. Maybe they should come with some glue to hold them together if kids will actually be attempting to play with them.

I can't support this line after having lots of hope for it. Some of the arrogance from Mr. Minimates on here has also turned me off to this line, don't wait until October to write all of us off, you can write me off now.

[DSTZach]

I really don't want to keep a massive, increasingly negative convo going, but I will clear up a couple of points.

Godbeast, I simply thought the article was heavy on DST's hypothetical motivations, and light on facts -- the pics were great, but the article felt largely unrelated. Even Talyn thinks he came off harsh. "Lego-like" was more describing the figures than the brand, but you're right -- I'll take it! That said, thank you for passing the figure along to someone who is clearly passionate. And you're just as passionate! Who knew! In person, you're as cool as a cucumber. Like a young Josh Brolin.

Maybe the "renaissance" comment was over the top. I certainly respect that you've all been carrying the BB torch for so long. But how many Beast-themed lines were there when DST announced their line? If Armorvores was around back then, I certainly apologize -- I thought it was a fairly new addition to Glyos. But I would never take credit for Glyos, that's absurd.

Giving figures to LRG members was my choice. I want to win over this board, because I respect the die-hards, and the opinions of this board in particular. I probably have a fairly old account on here from when I was big into Kinnikuman, I should have tracked it down so I could look old-school. But for some reason I want the dozen or so guys on here who hate the Minimates they bought eight years ago to like our toys. Even if you only say it to each other, I will consider it a victory.

No offense meant to Talyn, or any blogger, but toy blogs are increasingly common. I have a list of nearly 100 different blog posts about our C2E2 announcement, from nearly 100 different sites. And while I try to send any site who asks for something what they need, I can't give everyone with a press badge whatever they want -- Talyn was not the only one I turned down. The retailer figures were definitely not an item I had an excess of, but if I could go back in time, I'd give Talyn one, and buy him a Heineken.

That said, giving figures to retailers directly is the best way to reach retailers. We specifically did it to show them what they would be ordering this summer. We need them to order, so we gave them a preview, easy-peasy -- we wanted to give them painted versions, but there just wasn't time. And if they choose to sell them... well, they'll definitely see how much demand there is for them, won't they? That's their call, we have nothing to do with that. I'm sure the percentage of retailers who sold their figures is pretty close to the percentage of fans.

Sorry, ddn't mean to insult anyone. I think I insulted half the Minimate Multiverse before I finally got the tone of the room. Thanks for your support, you guys who have expressed it. Of the tens of thousands of Beasts we need to sell, you guys are the ones I'm fighting the hardest for.

P.S. By 'writing you off," I only meant, "accepting defeat." Not turning my back. I'll take whoever wants to stay in this thread and talk about it. Maybe I'll start a new thread for the six of us.

P.P.S. We're giving away a big Dan Brereton banner over on Facebook, just FYI. http://www.facebook.com/BattleBeasts

Edited by DSTZach, 22 April 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[jkaris]

"I think DST inspired a renaissance." Really? WOW...that is just a tad presumptuous I think. As THE person who kept the vintage line important to collectors for over a decade...

So you counter his presumptuous comment with an even more presumptuous comment of your own? I'm not trying to pick an argument with you, but come on, "THE person who kept the vintage line important"? There were plenty of people keeping that torch burning strong. Steve, Sylvain, Pete, Eric, Gabe, etc. etc. Maybe you should have written "As one of the many people who kept the vintage line important to collectors for over a decade..."

Just so you know Jon, Hasbro DID start development on a Battle Beast revival/proposal back in 2005-06. I was contacted by Hasbro's head of the "Boy's Toys" division for a MAJOR Battle Beast proposal he was working on. I spoke on the phone and via email on many occasions w/ him discussing what was important to collectors, professional sculpts were made, concept art was made, and the entire sha-bang was presented to Hasbro (w/ full across the products board blitz) by him and his team. How do any of you not know that this isn't part of the Beast Saga or when Tomy/Takara started their development of Beast Saga?

Everyone saw the conception Hyena sketch...that was the tip of an iceberg...just a single sketch put in a kewl Hasbro collectors book. There was much more than you know.

Exactly my point. Someone product guy at Hasbro thought about it, jumped through a few hoops to see if it was viable, made a presentation and what happened? Nothing. They didn't see a market for it outside of our little niche here and they put it back on the shelf.

Hasbro isn't Takara. If Hasbro was leading that charge, they would have done something a long time ago. Not 7 years later. If I were to make an assumption, I would say that someone at Takara saw that DST scooped up the name and made the gator and thought it would be a great idea to revamp the line. I doubt Hasbro has anything to do with it, other than possibly licensing them again from Takara like they did in the 80's and bringing them to market here.

[ComradeCuttlefish]

One point to add to that:

People can collect without community support. No matter how instrumental several of you have been in creating, maintaining, and growing a Battle Beasts collectors' community, many of us existed without you.
I had completed one Battle Beasts collection, sold it, and restarted another collection all before I found Beastformers.com in 2005. I did all of that with ebay for buying and selling and using an enlarged poster image from an auction as my checklist. I was an independent collector for over 4 years before joining Beastformers.com

The aforementioned people deserve all the credit in the world for the work you have done, but don't think for one second that it was BECAUSE of any of you that Battle Beasts were important to me. You have built a community, and you all deserve credit for that, but you didn't spark all of our love or interest. For many of us, that love and interest was WHY we joined a community, not created by that community.

Edited by ComradeCuttlefish, 22 April 2012 - 10:14 PM.

[lord]

We are far away the original purpose of this thread. Over the years I have seen 3 big categories of Battle Beasts collectors. The ones that see collecting as a way to make money. They use the community as a big resource of customers. Their interests are mainly to make money. The ones that just want to share informations/learn/talk with others people with the same interest. And finally the ones that want to increase the possibilities for other collector. Marty is with no doubt from the last group and in a very good place (not to say the first). I wish I could be able to do as much as him but living in the other side of the earth makes things harder. I did my best to help him when he asked for and I will do it again as I know that it is all in the interest of the BB collectors. Of course he is not the one alone who make DST BB ou Beast Saga a reality but I'm sure that he helped to.

[DSTZach]

You can definitely be a die-hard collector without the community. Heck, I get handwritten letters every week from hardcore collectors of our product, and they don't even own computers. Which means they're probably working twice as hard as somebody with a modem, and putting a lot more miles on their car.

Anyone who wants to get a drink at SDCC or NYCC, come by the booth and let me know.

UPDATE: Just remembered THIS review. Honest enough. It definitely focuses on the figure:
http://www.infiniteh...east-vorin.html

Edited by DSTZach, 23 April 2012 - 05:15 AM.

[Ghost Lion]

Marty has a big point that he was (is!) an instrumental figure in the years of no beasts keeping the line alive. Yes, there are some great customizers that I have bought figures from (and had lions made for my lion contests) but if not for Marty making the Godbeasts, Tri Horn, Orca, and all the other original laser beasts, not to mention customs of existing beasts in all sorts of crazy colors, repro weapons, and SD figures I would never have the collection I do today. Also, many of the great BB customizers have gone to him for tips and hints on how to sharpen their own skills. Plus, he links people together so well. He has been in contact with TONS of collectors and being who he is always helps to refer people to each other when someone is looking for something for their collection. Now I know a lot of people on here do that to, but in my opinion it always comes back to Marty. So just speaking personally, with out TGB I would have the same collection I had in the ninth grade with the exception of the low end Lasers that I discovered at Botcon 1999. Not to give Marty a big head or anything, but props where props are due.

[koppenschevelle]

Now, I don't want to continue the love for Marty/Godbeast, but I will say that he's a great guy that did help me get back into the hobby. 9 years ago (man, I can't believe it's been nine years, crazy!), I was just starting to get back into Battle Beasts. I had a fraction of the information that the other collectors had. But I was very passionate. And while I loved the original line, Marty's customs on his site and this board were a huge jolt of excitement for me. I starting writing him immediately, and he gave me a lot of great advice to get started, and even helped me get my collection growing in that initial, infant stage. He also inspired me to start making my own customs. Now, I have made almost a hundred hand made customs over the year for different members here, as well some for myself. Marty was a big reason for that. Since, I have kept in touch with Marty often, always seeing him when he comes to Chicago. I also have to give props for Johnny/Jkaris. He also did his massive part to help get me going and keep me going with Battle Beasts, harboring my excitement and customs on this board.

Getting back to battle beasts, I am extremely excited about this line, as I am also very excited for Beast Saga, Marty, Matt and Jason's Armorvors and the Rise of the Beasts. We as collectors, spent so long where our passion for the line alone kept up our interest in this toy line, without anything new outside of custom figures to add to our collections. I have made soo many customs (some successful, some not so much that you guys won't ever see) because I craved new figures for my battle beasts to cross swords with. And now, we are getting a whole slew of new beasts, in different forms and in a very short time span. I can't help but be very excited. And for the customizer and painter in me, I have to say that I love the way I can swap out parts to make a new beast with the minimates. I'll continue to make customs from the old battle beasts, as well as customs from the beast saga line, but I am looking forward to not cutting up my fingers from razor blades and xacto knives customizing the minimates beasts. I think that each new beast line has it's own great properties to it that makes each one a good successor to the battle beasts heritage.

I can see why some people may not like the line. They are similar enough that most of us are going to love the line, but they are different from the original battle beasts, which it seems like something you guys intend to do. These differences may mean that some BB collector's won't like the new line. Pretty much all battle beasts, at 112 different figures, utilized the same core design of a squat body, shoulder articulation only and a rub sticker or orb. These new battle beasts are different from that. They are very poseable. They are a bit more human proportioned. Even though you are using the minimate body underneath, from the looks of the panel, each beast seems to be very different than the other. And they don't have the fire/wood/water rubsigns. But for me, the things that were most important to me about battle beasts were; they were anthromorphic animal warriors in battle armor, were small in size (about 2") so that I could easily fit them in my pocket or have an army of them fighting, and that there was enough "character" in the sculpt to keep my imagination going and inspire me to create stories and characters for each one. For me, this new line has all the things I am looking for. But everyone has different reasons and qualities in BBs that makes them love the original line. It's not going to be for everyone. But you've got me as an excited customer, waiting anxiously to get my hands on more.

If there is a complaint that I would have, it's that I haven't seen concept art for a chameleon battle beast. You have to do a chameleon. The line will not be complete without one.

Zach, I think that once people see Battle Beasts in toys r us, they are going to get very excited, and most of them will love the line and buy them. I can't wait for that moment, that I can go into the store and buy Battle Beasts again. I am going to relive my 5 year childhood again, saving up allowance money to get my favorite animals. If you told me that this would happen 10 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you.

Zach, it was great to meet you at C2E2. I have also introduced myself on the multiverse board, as Delta Chameleon. Marty, always great to see you. Only regret that I didn't have as much time to talk, since your booth was packed with people! Congrats on that. But next year we'll have to plan to have a bit more time to catch up. And Pete and Gabe, always great to see you two as well. Looking forward to seeing all of you again next year at C2E2. By the way, Pete, when am I going to be making you another lion?

Eric

Edited by koppenschevelle, 23 April 2012 - 07:44 AM.