2319 replies to this topic

[kinnikumanbigbody]

napalm strencth defeated a chojin with a power of a gos in one hit while the muscle inferno didn't k.o.ed kinnikuman at the first try.

Edited by kinnikumanbigbody, 05 April 2010 - 01:30 PM.

[SoldierAtaru]

Yeah but regardless of what we see, it's preposterous that you would be hit harder by the Kinniku Buster.

It's probably just the force of the Kinniku Buster as opposed to the Ashura Buster if that theory works. The Ashura Buster has less force on impact but easier to pull off because of the security that your opponent won't escape, while the Kinniku Buster has the full usage of power with impact but way easier to escape. I didn't say it was perfect, just a concept.

AS for how I would have had the final battle, here's how I'd probably do it:

Team Kinnikuman: Suguru, Robin, Ramenman, Warsman, Geronimo (maybe Meat was originally going to be it but Geronimo takes over instead)

1. Suguru/Satan Cross -> Mostly the same as it had been...maybe without the gimmicks but still ending the same way: Suguru gets really beat up but still wins with a Perfect Muscle Spark
2. Ramenman/Prisman -> Essentially the same: Ramenman destroys Omegaman but it's a tie ultimately
3. Geronimo/Omegaman -> Mostly the same I guess: Geronimo mostly shows his stuff but it's futile and he loses
4. Warsman/Omegaman -> Omegaman pulls him in due to him escaping from the Choujin Graveyard thanks to Dr. Bombe (maybe using him in place of Neptuneman since he escaped too), Warsman finally shows some new techniques and ends up defeating him...but goes over his 30 minutes to do so and can't fight anymore after this.
5. Robin/Mammothman -> Same as before with no real changes: Robin defeats him ultimately using his knowledge and skills.
6. Robin/Phoenix -> Phoenix mostly toys with an exhausted Robin and forces him out wanting to face Suguru and prove himself.
7. Suguru/Phoenix -> Not sure how it would go considering I won't have the Muscle Prophecy and sort of need to imagine how to fit in stuff like all the Gods appearing and maybe Suguru gaining the Submissions from Kamehame so he can be "completed".

Edited by SoldierAtaru, 05 April 2010 - 02:27 PM.

[KnuxieChan]

*Going through the last chapters to text set* ... They're reborn from flowers...

[shino619]

Ashuraman doesn't have Burning Inner Strength, now does he? So your argument doesn't hold much weight.

did you read my statement or someone else? that's exactly the point of why my argument does have weight :/


oh and... how much times were the Muscle Docking stronger than the Kinniku Buster? I can't remember. I think it was like.. 10 times?

[Tubba]

I thought Terryman/Mammothman would fit well given that Terryman always gets to fight the fat guys.

[SoldierAtaru]

I thought Terryman/Mammothman would fit well given that Terryman always gets to fight the fat guys.

My problem: I want to have Terry in the final battle but at the same time he had his big fight with King the 100 Ton. (which was one of the few good fights in the arc) Somehow as pathetic as certain things were (like Daddy Mask's paleontology knowledge), Robin was set up to be Mammothman's downfall.

Edited by SoldierAtaru, 06 April 2010 - 07:21 AM.

[shino619]

i think terry/suguru vs Partenon/Zebra would have been a better match. Robin didn't need to help Kinnikuman in every fight. That and the fact that terry was beaten by a move that Ramenman defeated with an ancestral and hidden technique feared by many moves: Jump

OMG HOW WOULD TERRYMAN KNOW THAT HE SHOOULD HAVE JUMPED ROFL I SURE WOULD HAVE CROUCHED AND DIED RAMENMAN IS A HERO

Edited by shino619, 06 April 2010 - 06:06 PM.

[SoldierAtaru]

i think terry/suguru vs Partenon/Zebra would have been a better match. Robin didn't need to help Kinnikuman in every fight. That and the fact that terry was beaten by a move that Ramenman defeated with an ancestral and hidden technique feared by many moves: Jump

OMG HOW WOULD TERRYMAN KNOW THAT HE SHOOULD HAVE JUMPED ROFL I SURE WOULD HAVE CROUCHED AND DIED RAMENMAN IS A HERO

Unfortunately Terry was sort of stuck: he was so worn down running and facing King the 100 Ton that even fodder like Motorman did that much damage to him. (that or he probably was afraid it was going to mutate into Gurren-Lagann...I dunno) Heck, Terry does get the worst of it the whole arc: getting destroyed by King the 100 Ton, then beat up by Motorman, then forced out of the finals because Suguru decided boneheadedly to practice a true Muscle Spark on him...at least he still got his duel post-Throne tournament or else he wouldn't have had any retribution.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

did you read my statement or someone else? that's exactly the point of why my argument does have weight :/


oh and... how much times were the Muscle Docking stronger than the Kinniku Buster? I can't remember. I think it was like.. 10 times?

Of course I read your statement. What I'm saying to you is that even if a move (Kinniku Buster) is inferior to another move (Ashura Buster), it can still surpass the superior move in terms of damage potential by being augmented by a power up (Burning Inner Strength). In databooks, power rankings are usually based on the pinnacle of strength for each character (meaning when they're at their absolute best), not their base levels.

You should also know that in Shonen Manga, a lot of strength comments are exaggerated.

Edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma, 06 April 2010 - 07:50 PM.

[Tubba]

My problem: I want to have Terry in the final battle but at the same time he had his big fight with King the 100 Ton. (which was one of the few good fights in the arc) Somehow as pathetic as certain things were (like Daddy Mask's paleontology knowledge), Robin was set up to be Mammothman's downfall.

Yeah, but there wasn't really a reason for 100 ton to be Terry's final battle other than the fact that Yude wanted it to, for some absurd reason.


... Hell, he should have been able to beat Motorman even with all bones crushed in his body given what a jobber Motorman actually was.


But I'm not actually that fond of Terryman anyway, so it doesn't matter.

(that or he probably was afraid it was going to mutate into Gurren-Lagann...I dunno)

YARGH! Time for a history lesson... Drills in mecha anime!

There is a common misconception that the idea of drills on giant robots was invented in 2007 by an infamous anime known as Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann. This is, in fact, false.

By 1972, Go Nagai had created the first "true" mecha anime, Mazinger Z, being inspired by Tetsujin 28-go and Tetsuwan Atom. While this robot did not have any drills per se, it did have a couple of "drill missiles" which were fired from its lower arms while the hands were fired away or lifted up. Notably, these drill missiles could pierce the Chogokin Z-armored mecha beasts Dr. Hell had created. Along with the Iron Cutter, these were the only weapons capable of doing so.

The sequel to Mazinger Z, Great Mazinger, also had a drill-like concept in an Atomic Punch variant - Forgive me for forgetting the name - Where the fist would work much like a drill together with the Great Typhoon in order to pierce the enemy.

The concept of drills would soon be revisited by the joint creation of Go Nagai and his friend, the late Ken Ishikawa, in the fantastic creation Getter Robo. Getter Robo was a combination of three jet planes which would combine into three forms - Getter 1, Getter 2, and Getter 3. Getter 2 specialized in land and underground combat, and for this purpose, its main theme was drills. It had a drill arm, drill missiles, and was capable of drilling through most enemies. This theme was kept by Getter Liger and Shin Getter 2, with the Getter 2 variants generally specializing in speed and drills.

Drills would also be used by the land combat module of Koutetsu Jeeg. I'm not very familiar with Jeeg, unfortunately, but I believe it largely featured the idea of drills coming out of nowhere.

Another very famous use of a drill-like weapon is the often-referenced finishing move of Com-Battler V, the Choudenji Spin (I believe Warsman's Screw Driver is inspired by this attack, judge for yourselves). Com-Battler V was notable for having a ludicrously large arsenal of oversized weapons stored in its wrists, commonly referred to as "super robot space". The most frequently reused of this attack, the Choudenji Spin, would feature Com-Battler V putting its wrists together, whereafter a drill-like module would rise out, and it would spin at extreme speeds, drilling through the enemy and causing a gigantic mushroom cloud explosion.

After the super robot paradise of the seventies, drills went into some obscurity. It was somewhat used by 2000-something's Koutetsushin Jeeg, and probably by some obscurer robots, it's also used by some Super Robot Wars orginals such as the Grungust Sanshiki.

To recap, whenever drills are mentioned, please do not automatically bring up TTGL. It makes mecha fans very, very angry. It's similar to mentioning Portal whenever someone brings up cake.

Edited by Tubba, 07 April 2010 - 01:32 AM.

[SoldierAtaru]

To recap, whenever drills are mentioned, please do not automatically bring up TTGL. It makes mecha fans very, very angry. It's similar to mentioning Portal whenever someone brings up cake.

Yeesh, picky picky. Can't I even joke?

And...yeah, the whole purpose of Motorman was to give someone Ramenman to Camel Clutch with no complaint.

[shino619]

Unfortunately Terry was sort of stuck: he was so worn down running and facing King the 100 Ton that even fodder like Motorman did that much damage to him. (that or he probably was afraid it was going to mutate into Gurren-Lagann...I dunno) Heck, Terry does get the worst of it the whole arc: getting destroyed by King the 100 Ton, then beat up by Motorman, then forced out of the finals because Suguru decided boneheadedly to practice a true Muscle Spark on him...at least he still got his duel post-Throne tournament or else he wouldn't have had any retribution.

I had forgotten that... he should had practiced with meat or canadianman. I'm still convinced canadianman should had got at least a fodder fight.

@blackbeard
If A>B (A.Buster > KinBuster) , but A<nB with n>1(ABuster < KinBuster amplified by n times strenght), it's still true that nA>nB (ABuster times the same factor that KinBuster is being powered up > KinBuster aplified by n times strenght). because if you divide by n it's still the fact that A is superior to B

[Tubba]

Yeesh, picky picky. Can't I even joke?

And...yeah, the whole purpose of Motorman was to give someone Ramenman to Camel Clutch with no complaint.

Joke as much as you want, just don't bring up TTGL.

[TheOrgg]

Joke as much as you want, just don't bring up TTGL.

So I was at this bar the other night, and started chatting up this chick on the barstool... she turned around, and oh $#*+! she was TTGL!

Edited by TheOrgg, 08 April 2010 - 06:48 AM.

[KnuxieChan]

So I was at this bar the other night, and started chatting up this chick on the barstool... she turned around, and oh $#*+! she was TTGL!

=[ Fail joke there, Orgg, since it's the abbreviation for an anime: "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann"

And not all mecha fans hate TTGL, Tubba. I know a few that liked it and they're huuugee mech fans.

[KinnikuG]

And not all mecha fans hate TTGL, Tubba. I know a few that liked it and they're huuugee mech fans.

As a colossal mecha fan I can attest to digging the hell outta Gurren Lagann. I can see where Tubba is coming from though, it does seem a bit odd that GL gets the top bill when drills are mentioned. (I honestly think of Getter-2 first.) I also get a kick outta seeing him calling back to Combattler V's Chodenji Spin.

I do have to apologise for a recent lack of Kinnikuman updates. I meant to have a new chapter up tonight, but I've got some work to take care of first. I will have a new chapter up in the next week, but I figured I'd give you guys a heads up.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

@blackbeard
If A>B (A.Buster > KinBuster) , but A<nB with n>1(ABuster < KinBuster amplified by n times strenght), it's still true that nA>nB (ABuster times the same factor that KinBuster is being powered up > KinBuster aplified by n times strenght). because if you divide by n it's still the fact that A is superior to B

I completely understand what you're saying here, and I agree with you (I love math, by the way ). By default, the Ashura Buster is superior to the Kinniku Buster. But when there are other variables that come into play, we have to take those into consideration as well. Ashuraman doesn't have a strength amplifier (or at least he doesn't have one as substantial as Burning Inner Strength), and because of that, ultimately in the end, the Ashura Buster won't be as damaging as the Kinniku Buster. That's all I'm saying here.

[Tubba]

=[ Fail joke there, Orgg, since it's the abbreviation for an anime: "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann"

And not all mecha fans hate TTGL, Tubba. I know a few that liked it and they're huuugee mech fans.

Please. All REAL mecha fans hate TTGL.


The reason why there's such a rift in regards to TTGL is the fact that it was basically a bunch of mecha cliches we've seen about 999 times before with nothing really new superimposed upon some typical average shounen anime. Pretty much all newcomers liked it, because it was NEW AND EXCITING, and most mecha communities were... Well, split on it. Some liked it, some didn't. I thought the first few episodes were pretty cool, but the rest was nothing to write home about. Meanwhile, masterpieces like Mazinkaiser and Shin Mazinger Shougeki (or for that matter, Xabungle) get ignored for "having giant robots in them".

Edited by Tubba, 10 April 2010 - 01:38 AM.

[SoldierAtaru]

Getting back on track...

I think the biggest problem regarding why the Ashura Buster was seen as "weaker" to the Kinniku Buster is that Yude (or fans) are always trying to give the excuse that Suguru and the fighters of the Kinniku Clan are the strongest/best no matter what, even with their strange personalities and lack of focus at times. (whether it be a positive or negative thing in the story) I mean, these guys even had Harabote win a Choujin Olympics once in history...and even he's essentially just a tightwad who is always one step behind Mayumi (with him merely being the leader of the Choujin Association and Mayumi being Daiou) and seems to take out his aggressions by letting the enemy always have their way in programming the means by which a match occurs. Thus, while I wish there was some way to say the Ashura Buster was better from Ashuraman's claims, the Kinniku Buster will probably always have the greater potential...even if it was the proto-type Kinniku Driver that finally stopped the spider god.

Edited by SoldierAtaru, 10 April 2010 - 02:41 AM.

[Tubba]

Then again, with some help from Kamehame, he was on the Buster end of the Muscle Docking, so I guess he got his there too.


Also, I was just rereading the chojin olympics... It's fun looking at how the designs change; We all know by now that Terryman gets normal eyes later on, but I never noticed how much Ramenman changed, from looking monstrous to becoming a tube with a mustache.

Edited by Tubba, 10 April 2010 - 03:20 AM.

[KnuxieChan]

Okay, before I get started... 318 is the start of volume 29, correct?

[kinnikumanbigbody]

Okay, before I get started... 318 is the start of volume 29, correct?

yes.

[KinnikuG]

Sorry about the long silence folks, I'm wrapping up the work on the last two chapters of volume 28 right now.

Sadly, those will be my last chapters (as I'm sure you figured out by Knuxiechan's post above) as my day job is starting to demand more time. As much as I love Kinnikuman, I gotta be able to pay bills.

I do feel bad bailing after one volume, but I'm glad I was able to help the project along.

I'll post 316 & 317 as soon as they are done.

[Stecase King]

Sorry about the long silence folks, I'm wrapping up the work on the last two chapters of volume 28 right now.

Sadly, those will be my last chapters (as I'm sure you figured out by Knuxiechan's post above) as my day job is starting to demand more time. As much as I love Kinnikuman, I gotta be able to pay bills.

I do feel bad bailing after one volume, but I'm glad I was able to help the project along.

I'll post 316 & 317 as soon as they are done.

You did good, anyway.

[KinnikuG]

Chapter 316 - http://www.mediafire.com/?yzwznohnngz

Sorry this one took so long, 317 will be up soon.