Jump to content

Theme© by Fisana
 

Photo
- - - - -

ebay ethics


  • Please log in to reply
128 replies to this topic

#26 Foxman

Foxman

    Foxman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.S.

Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:32 PM

Why?

Even 5 years ago I might have agreed, but it just keeps getting easier and easier. You don't even need to be artistic anymore to attempt to create 4-packs. You need resources, an eye for detail, and zero concern for the idea of right vs. wrong (at least in regards to fake 4-packs).

Honestly, I believe the biggest challenge would be cutting the cards after printing. I think everything else would be pretty easy. Plus you could sell a couple of test 4-packs, just to make sure nobody is instantly calling out your work or noticing something.

I don't have the energy to go back to those most recent SC 4-packs, but I stared to wonder about the other figures inside those 4-packs. We've often said how 4-pack cases often had very similar figures in all of the packs. As I remember it (not taking the time to look back) the only consistency was the SC. The rest of the figures were pretty diversified. I don't remember seeing a lot of any other one figure. Just a thought.



Why?

Difference in materials. Cardboard, plastic, ink, glue. No matter how good you are at faking something, 100% of the materials WILL be different than the original used. Even if they're all virtually identical or really close... even if ALL but one are perfect... They're still 27 year old materials put together on old school, analog equipment from the 80s. Plus, Inkjet printing is easy, but it's different than silkscreen printing. Something would have changed, no matter what. There would be a way to tell them apart. If they're wasn't, whoever is making them, should spend his time making $20 bills instead of wasting his evil genius on buying, repackaging & reselling M.U.S.C.L.E. figures on FeePay.

I've worked in a few dozen different factories over the years. Making stuff, packaging stuff. Packing stuff up & putting it on pallets. From Shipping & receiving to manufacturing. I've even worked in the stores putting the same crap I used to make on the shelves. It's amazing how many materials and little steps go into making something as simple as a pack of M.U.S.C.L.E.s. Getting each of the dozens of steps & materials 100% perfect is pretty much impossible... Especially with quarter century old materials & equipment involved...

You never know though. There always could be a psycho Puerto Rican reseal bandit on the loose... buying up mint Satan Crosses and resealing back in to perfect packages with common M.U.S.C.L.E.s that can fool even the most serious collectors. A true engineering mastermind... hiding away in his evil little M.U.S.C.L.E. lab... surrounded by big ass computers...

or...

maybe someone just found a kick-ass case or two hidden in the back of a shipping container or from the back of a back of an old warehouse... and the guy is full of shit. His idea of being a "20 year reseal expert" is using a hot glue gun to patch up the crap he buys at the Puerto Rican swap-meet.

If the recent packs ARE fakes though, it would be interesting as hell to see them up against a real one... If they can whip out perfect 4 packs without a hitch, molding up perfect Satan Crosses & Super Rares should be about as hard as making cookies.
  • 0





#27 imperfecz

imperfecz

    Götter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4302 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona
  • Interests:stuff n stuff

Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

Typically a reseal is just that.... a re seal. Don't think anyone ever claimed someone was fabricating entire packaging...... just resealing with the desired figures inside to maximize profit.


Um... nevermind..... just re read......... yeah it would be pretty difficult to fabricate accurate packaging......... but to someone outside industry it could pass.

Edited by l.designs, 13 December 2012 - 02:40 PM.

  • 0

#28 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

Yeah, I agree that 100% refab packaging would probably raise some red flags... But repacking 4-packs with a known assailed figure, to maximize profits? Somebody could easily purchase several loose SC's, for say $50... Reseal them onto a blister card and... How much did you guys pay for yours?

Maybe the guy from PC is full of shit. I just know that there are few depths that psychotic toy collectors won't stoop to.
  • 0

#29 Ericnilla

Ericnilla

    Y/S*N*T

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9150 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

Ive had carded 4-packs with the bubble barely holding on, and there was no ripping of the card. I could of easily reglued it with a SC in it. But out of the maybe 30-40 4-packs I've had that was the only one with any problems. My nephew got to open that one. haha

But yeah it seems like a hell of a lot of trouble to rip off a noob, buy printing and fabricating new packaging. Also, if you are new to the hobby you shouldn't be buying such items, at least not before you have some 4-packs already in your collection. If that's the first 4-pack you buy blindly, you deserve to be ripped off. :p

Edited by Ericnilla, 13 December 2012 - 03:28 PM.

  • 0

#30 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

I think there are several venues I would want to explore, before poo-pooing the possibility.
I don't know if Hawt PCGG would be the guy... But it's fair to blieve that if we can reasonably bootleg the figures, that we can reasonably boot the packaging as well... Via glue gun or other means.
You can also lightly steam some adhesives, to get them to loosen up.
  • 0

#31 Foxman

Foxman

    Foxman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.S.

Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:13 PM

I think there are several venues I would want to explore, before poo-pooing the possibility.
I don't know if Hawt PCGG would be the guy... But it's fair to blieve that if we can reasonably bootleg the figures, that we can reasonably boot the packaging as well... Via glue gun or other means.
You can also lightly steam some adhesives, to get them to loosen up.


I can see any cheesy ebay joker "resealing" them, I just don't see how they could do it very well. Some machine in a factory did each & every pack the same way with a certain kind of industrial glue... back in like 1986. Just that one step in the process would be HARD AS HELL without screwing up a BUTT LOAD of perfectly good packs. I think even the "almost real looking one"... would still be a work of cheese if you held it up to the real deal.
  • 0

#32 Ericnilla

Ericnilla

    Y/S*N*T

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9150 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Ive seen reseals here on the board where people have put their SRs in a 4-pack to display and it looks pretty legit. I dont think its that hard to do.

Especially since not all 4-packs are perfectly aligned. Ive seen straight up messy ones too.

Here is a pic of a 4-pack from my collection, you can see how the bubble has moved or was moved. But obviously not a reseal.
Posted Image
Posted Image
  • 0

#33 ironoak

ironoak

    King of the Blast Double

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:on the MAT
  • Interests:Kicking in doors and blowing sh*t up

Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

I can see any cheesy ebay joker "resealing" them, I just don't see how they could do it very well. Some machine in a factory did each & every pack the same way with a certain kind of industrial glue... back in like 1986. Just that one step in the process would be HARD AS HELL without screwing up a BUTT LOAD of perfectly good packs. I think even the "almost real looking one"... would still be a work of cheese if you held it up to the real deal.



My SC package is mint with punch tag still in place. They had to be stores away somewhere for many years. I also think the seller only sold around 5 packs.

I watch all his auctions he mostly sells RC car and garage tools. He really didn't seem shady at all. He sent them packaged very well and answered all my questions. He hasn't sold any other muscle items.

I think the guy just stumbled across a box of 4 packs and sold them. He also sold non SC sealed 4 packs as well. I remember when he first started selling these he really didn't know what he had.

Comparing it against all my other sealed packs and I have a lot, it is exactly the same as the others. The seal is not tampered with, the bubble is perfect, the card is in excellent condition with punch tag intact.
  • 1
<p><a href='http://s199.photobuc...ad4925.jpg.html'><img src="http://i199.photobuc...zps29ad4925.jpg" alt="bf123483-b937-4093-82e9-76d884e80a16_zps"></a></p>
<p>

#34 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

Haha, well, I think we can agree that nobody would ever try to bootleg or counterfeit anything like this for monetary gain! Silly me! Look at Jimmy being paranoid!sike
  • 1

#35 Ericnilla

Ericnilla

    Y/S*N*T

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9150 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

My SC package is mint with punch tag still in place. They had to be stores away somewhere for many years. I also think the seller only sold around 5 packs.

I watch all his auctions he mostly sells RC car and garage tools. He really didn't seem shady at all. He sent them packaged very well and answered all my questions. He hasn't sold any other muscle items.

I think the guy just stumbled across a box of 4 packs and sold them. He also sold non SC sealed 4 packs as well. I remember when he first started selling these he really didn't know what he had.

Comparing it against all my other sealed packs and I have a lot, it is exactly the same as the others. The seal is not tampered with, the bubble is perfect, the card is in excellent condition with punch tag intact.



Congrats, you have a common figure in a 4-pack.

:shok:
  • 2

#36 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

I think some of the newer members are ignorant to how absolutely effing crazy some of the fringe MUSCLE community can be, or how far they will go to appear to have something, or convince others that they have something...
There's a reason the old dogs are skeptical.
  • 1

#37 ironoak

ironoak

    King of the Blast Double

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:on the MAT
  • Interests:Kicking in doors and blowing sh*t up

Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:31 PM

Congrats, you have a common figure in a 4-pack.

:shok:


Thanks ;) common or not its a figure that I wanted sealed. Just like I wanted a sealed color claw pack. It means more to me than rarity or value. I think it's a pretty sweet figure in a sealed pack.
  • 1
<p><a href='http://s199.photobuc...ad4925.jpg.html'><img src="http://i199.photobuc...zps29ad4925.jpg" alt="bf123483-b937-4093-82e9-76d884e80a16_zps"></a></p>
<p>

#38 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

I HAVE A LOOSE #44, IN RED.



DO YOU HEAR ME? A LOOSE #44.

IN RED.
  • 0

#39 jason76basin

jason76basin

    Serious Collector

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 827 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:13 PM

I have loose stool. Is that braggable?

Anyway this stink in garbage sucks. Eric that muscle pack you showed wasn't resealed......and the ones I sold loomed nothing like that as far as I saw. Guess we shall see.....once again sellers be cautious of that buyer. One thing I'm guilty of.....slow shipping(ask iron/plastic soul) but one thing I ain't is somebody that would reseal or try to rip off folks
  • 2

#40 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:16 PM

Thank god, somebody got that joke.
  • 0

#41 jason76basin

jason76basin

    Serious Collector

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 827 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:40 PM

Decision made. What a effing joke. EBay sided with the buyer. They said the buyer will ship my items back then automatically issue refund. So even if I get all my shit I feel like I effing lose.
  • 1

#42 Foxman

Foxman

    Foxman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.S.

Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

Decision made. What a effing joke. EBay sided with the buyer. They said the buyer will ship my items back then automatically issue refund. So even if I get all my shit I feel like I effing lose.


Yep. Welcome to corporate America. A lose-lose situation for anyone who's not in the business of ripping people off...
  • 0

#43 imperfecz

imperfecz

    Götter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4302 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona
  • Interests:stuff n stuff

Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:13 PM

.

































.








poop


  • 2

#44 SmokinGun

SmokinGun

    Weird, Wild Wrestler

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2182 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Everywhere
  • Interests:M.U.S.C.L.E.

Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:15 PM

LMAO!! Took me bit to find out what Luke said.
  • 2

#45 jason76basin

jason76basin

    Serious Collector

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 827 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

is there a way to appeal a case like this, that i just lost to the buyer? or is it even worth my time at this point?

........side note does anybody want to buy some muscle items that are NOT resealed......i'm too lazy to reseal toys, ask ironmask
  • 0

#46 Foxman

Foxman

    Foxman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:U.S.

Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

is there a way to appeal a case like this, that i just lost to the buyer? or is it even worth my time at this point?

........side note does anybody want to buy some muscle items that are NOT resealed......i'm too lazy to reseal toys, ask ironmask


Nope, eBay is the judge, jury & executioner in their own little dictatorship. You really have to love the whole concept of a Monopoly...

And I personally don't think you would knowingly try to sell a cheesy reseal job on FeePay... for what that's worth. Not much around here obviously.

After listening to the facts straight from the seasoned vets about how easy it is to counterfeit M.U.S.C.L.E. related stuff and how so many people out there are doing it. I don't think I'm interested in collecting anything else beyond my set of 236... except for maybe a wrestling ring. If you have one of those around, I would be interested.

It just makes me wonder how many expensive figures are really "customs" that some "custom guy" whipped up in his garage... With some of the great custom work I've seen around here and on FeePay, I can't see any reason why people wouldn't... And so, why would anyone with any sense collect any of this crap knowing people can whip them up at home, put them inside custom made packs and sell them to idiots for 100's to 1000's of buck$. :laugh:

I'm just joking. M.U.S.C.L.E. figures can't be counterfeit. It's too hard. Any seasoned vet knows that. And anyone who makes custom figures would agree... Right everyone? :whistling:
  • 0

#47 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

Nope, eBay is the judge, jury & executioner in their own little dictatorship. You really have to love the whole concept of a Monopoly...

And I personally don't think you would knowingly try to sell a cheesy reseal job on FeePay... for what that's worth. Not much around here obviously.

After listening to the facts straight from the seasoned vets about how easy it is to counterfeit M.U.S.C.L.E. related stuff and how so many people out there are doing it. I don't think I'm interested in collecting anything else beyond my set of 236... except for maybe a wrestling ring. If you have one of those around, I would be interested.

It just makes me wonder how many expensive figures are really "customs" that some "custom guy" whipped up in his garage... With some of the great custom work I've seen around here and on FeePay, I can't see any reason why people wouldn't... And so, why would anyone with any sense collect any of this crap knowing people can whip them up at home, put them inside custom made packs and sell them to idiots for 100's to 1000's of buck$. :laugh:

I'm just joking. M.U.S.C.L.E. figures can't be counterfeit. It's too hard. Any seasoned vet knows that. And anyone who makes custom figures would agree... Right everyone? :whistling:



Honestly... I have wondered that about some of the duplicates of the really rare shit... The thing is, there are a handful of guys... some of which on this forum... That actually are good enough to pull that off. Are they? I don't know... But the only real way to know for sure, is to get them in hand. I don't know of anybody with an injection molding set-up that does customs, or anybody that has found a pourable rubber that matches original MUSCLE consistency. But I am kind of in the same boat as you, as far as not diving in too deep, because the hobby can get expensive as hell, and there isn't a whole lot of guarantee that what you're getting is 100% legit. Now, with the 10 packs, I feel a little more safe, as those would be a lot harder to counterfeit.
I dunno, it's a can of worms, but to answer in short: There are a few guys that ARE that good that we know about... I'm sure there are probably a couple also, that we don't know about.
  • 0

#48 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:21 PM

I've seen on youtube, where people have built injection molding machines out of drill presses... I think it would be a bit naive, to assume that between that and some of the skilled customizers, that there isn't at least a couple counterfeit high dollar pieces out there.
Typically, the blue specs are a good telltale sign that a MUSCLE is legit... The way that collectors have been acting over the past couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the SR's were fabricated. If you would have asked me ten years ago, I would have scoffed, and said "No way!"
Ask the old timers here... People have tried to get away with much crazier shit than what I am suspicious of.
  • 0

#49 PlasticSoul

PlasticSoul

    LRG Elite

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2786 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

Decision made. What a effing joke. EBay sided with the buyer. They said the buyer will ship my items back then automatically issue refund. So even if I get all my shit I feel like I effing lose.


Ebay is such a joke.

And people wonder why sellers choose to cancel auctions and sell off ebay instead.

You need to just quit ebaying stuff. You get boned constantly. I know ebay pays way better then selling stuff here does but add up all the times you've been had just this year and you would have probably been better off selling stuff through here.

If i were you i'd empty out my paypal account close my bank account and let paypal automatically take NOTHING from me.
  • 3

#50 jason76basin

jason76basin

    Serious Collector

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 827 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:15 AM

very good point, you do catch my ramblings of crap that has happened.....as far as the paypal/account closing is concerned, that would be a good way to keep them from taking my money. wonder if i just closed my paypal and told my bank under no way are they to let money be taken out would work, or would i definately have to close the bank acct also? i probably wouldn't do it, because of how much stuff is tied to my bank account and whatnot, not to mention i guess i'd have to writeoff ever having a paypal account again

wouldn't it be considered dirty to close out my acct? that would make me seem like the guilty party wouldnt it?
  • 0






Copyright © 2024 LittleRubberGuys.com