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\"Rare\" MUSCLE\


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Poll: \"Rare\" MUSCLE\ (29 member(s) have cast votes)

\"Rare\" MUSCLE\

  1. They were part of a series 2 that was discontinued in place of colors. (6 votes [20.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.69%

  2. They were prototypes or tests that were accidentally released. (8 votes [27.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.59%

  3. They are just hard Kinkeshi. (5 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

  4. Mattel recalled them internally for safety reasons. (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  5. Other (9 votes [31.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.03%

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#1 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 08:38 AM

We’ve often speculated as to where the “rare” figures have come from. I thought I would take a little poll to get a more graphic view of our opinions. Hopefully I included all the prevalent views.

I personally think they were just part of a discontinued series 2. To me that makes the most logical sense. They were being produced, but it was cheaper just to rehash the same figures in new colors. That could be why x-2 is orange. His mold was made and they were doing an orange run, but discontinued his figure because it was part of series 2.

PS - When you vote, please say why you voted a certain way. In other words, give the logic behind your vote.
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#2 doc_moore_j

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 08:43 AM

I voted hard kinkeshi. My reasons for that vote is because I have never felt, or seen a "super" rare in person. But I have seen pics of the kinkeshi molds that these supposed super rares were made of. I have quite a few kinnikuman and kinkeshi figures, and many of the later versions were real hard, and even kind of shiny like muscles. For example, I have that battle series set that I bought from midgetron, the kinkeshi in that set are hard and shiny and feel a lot like muscles. I also have a zebra man kinkeshi and a few others that are hard and shiny just like muscle, the only way I can tell is because of the colors.

On a side note, I think we have ruled out that Satan Cross is not a "Super" rare, but a rare. I have him in muscle packaging so I know he is indeed a muscle. Until I see these other rares in muscle packaging or pull one out of a ten pack or something, I will remain skepticle.

As far as X-2, we have also proven he was not even a kinnikuman but a Ramen man figure branch off of kinnikuman because Ramen man was so popular in Japan.
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#3 Tortle

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 08:51 AM

I'm inclined to believe that they were part of a cancelled second series. At first, I thought that they were Kinkeshi, but I have a bunch of different types of Kinkeshi (originals, Ramenmans, rereleases, etc.), and none of their plastics are exactly like MUSCLEs. Nowadays, I think the super-rares are probably MUSCLEs... but that opinion could change without notice. :lol:

Doc's right... X-2 is actually from the Ramenman series. The plastic of the Ramenman figures is harder and more like MUSCLEs, but it's not exactly the same either in color or consistency. Given the color of X-2 is unlike any MUSCLE, I don't think it's an American MUSCLE figure.

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#4 Knuxman

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 08:54 AM

I think that the color one is the reason, i think that light blue and a couple other colors are in place of all the other possible figs ie. a non-rare x-2. my reasoning is we didnt need 8 colors, its just simple logic toy companies usually make either 1 or 4 colors of toys not 8, case and point thats why a lot of muscles are rare in certain colors, like purple hand, it was never documented by the manufactorer that any colors would be rarer than others(which is usually a point of collecting them). I also think that BHS and SHA are a part of a "special action" set that went down the drain from the immense cost of hundreds and hundreds of new molds and more materials.
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#5 jkaris

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 09:00 AM

Except for Satan Cross, I think they were prototypes. From all the scans/pics, they are indistinguishable from M.U.S.C.L.E. plastic. Even the Drunken master seems to have faded EXACTLY like a M.U.S.C.L.E. does. (look at the nose).

I don't think they are the harder Kinkeshi for a few reasons:
1. The coloring is much different. The flesh M.U.S.C.L.E.'s and the Flesh Kinkeshi (re-releases) are a different color.
2. DM, SHA and BHS were never re-issued.
3. The reissues, though glossy and harder than Kinkeshi rubber, still ane not as firm as M.U.S.C.L.E. plastic. Also, M.U.S.C.L.E. plastic is noticeably more dense.

However, they may be super high quality bootlegs, or customs made from M.U.S.C.L.E. plastic. That is always a theory, until they are found MOC or MISB.

I have the original, one and only X-2, and he is a Ramenman Kinkeshi. He is NOT M.U.S.C.L.E. See HERE!
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#6 AmoiMan

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 09:27 AM

I agree with Johnny. I think they were prototypes.

I don't think they were a second wave, thrashed in favor of colors, because if this were so, there would probably be more than 6 of them in existance. Six? C'mon no company makes 6 figures and no more. They'd probably make hundreds at a time...and even if they cancelled the second wave after the first casting, more than 6 would show up out of this hundred or more.

If it weren't for Drunken Master, though, I probably would have said it was the small-part thing. DM just perplexes me :lol:.

I don't think they're Kinkeshi because the color is different....but I really have no valid argument there, as I've never held a Kinkeshi in my hands.
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#7 Beligerant1

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 12:15 PM

I voted other, because each of those reasons, or a combination thereof, are equally likely in my opinion because we dont have many good clues to base them on. Also they could be the result of something we havnt even thought of yet.
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#8 Sniper33

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 02:08 PM

I don't think they were a second wave, thrashed in favor of colors, because if this were so, there would probably be more than 6 of them in existance. Six? C'mon no company makes 6 figures and no more. They'd probably make hundreds at a time...and even if they cancelled the second wave after the first casting, more than 6 would show up out of this hundred or more.


Well, how do you know there are only six out there? Not everyone has the internet, and everyone doesnt know about this site.... But you would think that there would be more people here that would have a couple.

But I would have to go with jkaris's response though.
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#9 Tortle

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 02:26 PM

I just don't see how prototypes would find their way onto a production line. If by "prototypes", you guys mean, "test-marketed figures", then I think that's a bit more likely. Although I've never really seen much test marketing with big toy lines. I know test marketing goes on all the time with small-time stuff like happy meal toys, but I haven't seen it much with mass-prodution toy lines. Vintage Yakface comes to mind as a possibile test-marketed toy... maybe Megator from He-man, too (if you can consider overseas exclusives as test-marketed toys).

Anyway, Beligerant's right... I'm basing my opinion only on speculation...

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#10 Knuxman

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 02:55 PM

@tortle oh, i thought thats what he meant by "prototypes" :D
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#11 AmoiMan

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 03:02 PM

Well, how do you know there are only six out there? Not everyone has the internet, and everyone doesnt know about this site.... But you would think that there would be more people here that would have a couple

Read carefully, I didn't say there were only six in existence...I just said we only know of six....and idea which you supported with the second half of your statement

Anyway, Beligerant's right... I'm basing my opinion only on speculation...


Of course! All anyone can do is speculate. For all we now, these particular sculpts could just be more likely to have been melted/blown up/cut up by little kids, and therefore became scarce......It could be anything
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#12 Knuxman

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 03:06 PM

theres about a 50% chance that MUSCLE girl and FNX got toem all first lol.
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#13 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 03:22 PM

Hey Tortle I think the best example that fits with our theory is Vlix. He was a toy with limited release, and was at the tail end of a dying line. This seems to fit with the “rare” MUSCLE’s. We don’t know how many there are for sure, but there are only a few known of.
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#14 MIWP

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 03:47 PM

I think that flesh Satan Cross and the ring figures are the only figures that might be rare in the American M.U.S.C.L.E. series only because they were not included on the poster, also the game figures maybe. I believe that the other figures that we see that look like M.U.S.C.L.E. figures are either Kinnikuman, Exogoni, or even figures of other Japanese toys that copied off of Kinnikuman, there have been alot of look-a-likes!
As far as colors go in the American line I think it is possible to see a figure in every color.
And a second line of M.U.S.C.L.E. figures I think there is no way.........

I voted other......
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#15 Wraith

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 05:36 PM

i voted that they were part of a new series that was to be released which got colors instead because all super-rares so far have been in flesh. although i have had my suspicions that they are just hard kinkeshi...
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#16 Rokk

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 05:41 PM

I voted "other." Mainly because I'm torn between these super-rares being hard kinkeshi or test figures. I think that Johnny, MIWP and Beligerant1 all make excellent points.
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#17 Kinnikux

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 06:30 PM

I really don't think they would be hard kinkeshi though. I mean, looking at the pictures of the super rares, they seem to be 100 percent Muscle. Muscle in plastic and in color..... As Johnny pointed out the fading. The only hard kinkeshi I have ever heard of are the re-releases, yet they are still not the same kind of plastic and the flesh tone is not exactly the same as the regular Muscle. I think that if there were "hard Kinkeshi" made out of the exact same plastic as Muscle, Naochin and other Japanese collectors would have posted pictures on their web sites. Im voting that they were a new series that was canceled.
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#18 arforbes

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 08:36 PM

I voted that they were prototypes or tests that were accidentally released.

I believe that there were a few test M.U.S.C.L.E.'s created, resulting in SPA, BHS, and DM...and who knows who else that may be out there. I think the manufacturers created a few figures out of a handful of molds that were never released officially. Perhaps some leaked out more than others, which would explain Satancross being more plentiful. The others were made in fewer quantities, which may be why we see only one in a few years and such.

Now that M.U.S.C.L.E. awareness has been boosted by the G2 figures, I think we will be seeing more of our Super Rares in the future. The collections and old toys that people put away years ago are coming out of the closets that they have been stored in this whole time, because people are realizing that they have these old figures and they may be worth something to sell.(Ebay) e+

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#19 EVOM

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 10:21 PM

I voted other because my opinion is that they were accidentally put into the line. I think that it was a simple mistake that was quickly corrected. If they are from the Japanese line(hard kinkeshi, or what not) We would know about it by now. With Yahoo Japan and other Japanese sites that now exist We would have seen them pop up by now. It took so long to find out about X-2 because there was not the information, sites, and fellow collectors that there are right now.

Remember.....there are 233 figs on the poster, it`s not hard to see why and how a few "super rares" could have been confused and put in the production line. Then again maybe it was all an employees idea of a joke! I know if I worked on the line I would try to slip other sculpts into the production line! :D
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#20 phillymadison

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Posted 25 March 2003 - 09:08 PM

I voted other because i have idea where or why they are out

I just know that I own one lol :unsure:

All of the resons listed sounded like really good reasons
(well except them being hard kinkeshi I can't say that about the other super rares but DM is 100% muscle and if he can be 100% muscle so can SHA and BHS)

choking hazard seems likely because of the head, sun piece and i guess cane? (it seems it can come off really easy its not very thick)

prototype ya i can see that

same with a dis. second series

ya so I say other or all of the above lol
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#21 GRANDTHEFT

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Posted 26 March 2003 - 04:16 AM

I went for the test run.
It makes sence to me that a hand full of guys were once made just for show and when they got the thumbs up
the people in the know went back and refined there product
and several figures were left out of the mass production.



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