127 replies to this topic

[mimoman]

Anything except for vaginal is a perversion (literally) of nature's way for us to reproduce.
...
Look, if you want to be gay, then be gay, if you want to get a hummer, then get a hummer. But be honest with yourself, you do it because you like it, not because you are pre-programmed to do it.

AHHH! We're going in circles again. I guess thats the thing about circles, they don't end.

jkaris you say we have a genetic disposition to reproduce. then you say we do what we do because we like it. you like hetero sexual relationships. but doesnt that conflict with your idea that it is natural and therefore the proper way of doing things? so you are following your conscious and doing what you believe is right, at the same time justifying it is right because of your conscious.

you cannot say x=y and get anywhere!!

[Wraith]

lets just all agree that ice cream tastes good and we want some.

[jkaris]

No Mimo, you misunderstood my argument. I didn't say anything was right or wrong (except for pedophiles who should be castrated publicly in the most vicious way ).
What I said was that according to nature, we are predisposed to mate with a member of the opposite sex, in order to propagate the species. And that anything otherwise is a deviant behavior. Deviant as in deviating from the natural method, not deviant as in wrong.
Homosexuality doesn't create offspring, nor does blow jobs, anal sex, hand jobs, etc.
It is something you do becuase you like it, not because you are genetically programmed to do it.
I'm not genetically pre-disposed to do a lot of things I do, but I do them because I enjoy them. I just don't lie to myself and try to say that nature made me that way.

For instance (graphic, BEWARE)
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haha, not that this thread could get anymore graphic, but here goes:

I like any other guy, like oral sex. I like to give and I like to receive. It is VERY pleasureable. But, knowing that this isn't how nature intended for me to have sex, I don't make excuses and say that I am born to eat kitty or get my unit sucked. I just accept it as something I enjoy doing.

Same as with a homosexual male. He is not predisposed to want to eff a guy in the arse, but somewhere in his life, he decides he like the masculinity of a male better than the femininity of a woman. Or that he's tired of womens crap. or what ever, and he pursues that angle. And so, he starts a little at a time and grows accustomed to being homosexual and therefore loses all attraction to women.
This can come early in life, before puberty, or later in life, once sexuality has begun the transformation. It is a choice, not genetic.

[jkaris]

I agree with Veers on this one, that this debate IS all opinion.

I just happen to think that my opinion is fact, as does he, hahaha!

I'm out of this conversation, lest I become redundant. I'm off to get a hummer!

[ToyMan]

Come on people, be HONEST with yourselves. Homosexuality is a choice made by people who enjoy deviant behavior, and try to make excuses to justify WHY they do it. That's bullshizznit. It's not natural or pre-programmed. It is a choice.

Personally I think homosexuality is repulsive. It gags me to think of kissing another guy or effing some guy in the arse. But you know what, if someone else wants to do that, who cares, let them. This is a free country and what two adults want to do is their business, as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights.

yeah, that's just it: the funny thing about all of this is that no one has to "justify" their behaviour to anyone but themselves and the people who willingly participate.

but, again, you're making suppositions when you say that all gay people know that they've made the decision to lead a "deviant" lifestyle.

...and frankly, i didn't want to go and make this personal, but i think any straight person who spends so much of their time and effort, and lets this subject dwell in their heads for so long is probably a self-hating closeted homosexual, or at least unsure of their sexual orientation to some degree.

otherwise, why care?

seriously, if it's not a part of your realm, and it bothers you so much choose to remain ignorant. it's bliss.

Edited by ToyMan, 27 June 2003 - 10:40 AM.

[jkaris]

...and frankly, i didn't want to go and make this personal, but i think any straight person who spends so much of their time and effort, and lets this subject dwell in their heads for so long is probably a self-hating closeted homosexual, or at least unsure of their sexual orientation to some degree.

Bad supposition man.

I am neither a "self-hating closeted homosexual", or "unsure of my sexual orientation to some degree"

I am straight, I like women. I am deviant in the fact that I like multiple forms of sex. Do I hate myself for it? Ha ha, no.
I'm not unsure one bit of my sexual orientation. I am me, and that's all there is to it.

My question to you is this:
This is a very good debate we have going on here, with all sides giving their input. Why is it that you seem (and my perception may be incorrect) to be getting so riled up about it? There are a few folks on this board who are either openly homosexual or openly bi-sexual, and I don't see them getting all perturbed. Why is it bothering YOU this much?

otherwise, why care?

Because, this is quite an interesting debate. And I'm always game for a good debate.

[Adamantiumwulf]

seriously, if it's not a part of your realm, and it bothers you so much choose to remain ignorant. it's bliss.

What is your realm. The laws of this country effect everybody. What person does can have a dirrect and inderrect effect on you.

Ignorance isn't bliss.

You need to be aware of the people and things around you. If you choose to be ignorant then that is your coice. What you don't know can hurt you.

Edited by Adamantiumwulf, 27 June 2003 - 12:26 PM.

[TheOrgg]

A guy haveing anal sex with a guy would be exclusively gay.
A woman straping on a fake unit and haveing anal sex with a woman is exclusivley gay.

Let us throw a little "monkey" wrench in on this line of thought:

What if the converse takes place? A woman puts on a "strap on Unit" and her boyfriend bends down to "smell the pellow?"

Now where does the "line" exist?


Personally, I don't think there is a line, honestly-- It's all preference and choice. I'm Streight Edge, and have no sex by choice... even though my face also helps with that fact. I will admit that I have an infatuation with the female form, however, and do not consider myself "gay."

However, there is one other quote I'd like to address, as I believe nearly any form of activity is fine as long as all parties are consenting:

(except for pedophiles who should be castrated publicly in the most vicious way  ).

I agree completly.

[ToyMan]

okay, so it's okay to go around saying that you know that gay people made their choice and were not born into their lifestyle, but it's not okay to assume that people who are straight who hold opinions about other people's lifestyles might have more reason than they realize to be pondering on such a subject.

ahh. yeah, it's all so clear now.

[jkaris]

okay, so it's okay to go around saying that you know that gay people made their choice and were not born into their lifestyle, but it's not okay to assume that people who are straight who hold opinions about other people's lifestyles might have more reason than they realize to be pondering on such a subject.

Uh no, I said that your assumption about my involvement in this thread was incorrect.

[ToyMan]

...

nevermind.

[mimoman]

okay, so it's okay to go around saying that you know that gay people made their choice and were not born into their lifestyle, but it's not okay to assume that people who are straight who hold opinions about other people's lifestyles might have more reason than they realize to be pondering on such a subject.

ahh. yeah, it's all so clear now.

First and foremost I'm not surprised Veers quoted himself

Secondly, to get a little more practical, does it matter whether or not gays are gay by choice? Most likely its a complex combination of many things. It doesn't make it wrong regardless.

Wraith informed me that the way I quoted the choice question in the beginning of this thread made it seem i was "anti-gay".

This was not my intention at all.

Whether or not gays made the choice to be gay, its not dangerous or morally wrong and people should respect that.

[AmoiMan]

i think same sex marriages will be allowed
i don't think same sex marriages from foreign countries should be recognized until those types of marriages can occur within the US
and i think that everything possible should be done to discourage homosexual activity, including laws

Wait, maybe I missed something. You will let gays get married, gain all the legal rights of a spouse and enable them to adopt children and have a family. But, you would pass laws saying they can't have sex in the privacy of their own homes?

yes...you missed something. I didn't say I will let gays get married. I said I think it will happen. I don't make the laws.

[Tortle]

Gah! You guys have been busy with this topic! I really don't want to address everything happening here (because I would like to sleep sometime tonight), so here's my general take:

I think that gay marriages will eventually become legal, but it will take many years to overcome the stigma surrounding the proposal. Until then, I don't see any legal reason why gay marriages in other countries would be recognized here.

I think that homosexuality is usually the result of sexual trauma at an early age. When I used to watch Love-Line (with Dr. Drew and Adam), the gay people who called in always had experienced some kind of abuse when they were children.

I also think it's possible for people to be "born with it", through a natural variance in the attributes of species (call it a defect if you'd like, but that has a certain negative connotation that I wouldn't be too willing to use). In either case, I wouldn't consider homosexuality a decision.

Homosexuality does occur occasionally in nature. For example, giraffes exhibit homosexual tendencies at times. Like I said, I think this is just a natural variance.

In the end, who gives a shizznit? If they get married, who's it going to hurt? Whatever people want to do is fine by me as long as it's between two consenting adults and it doesn't hurt others.

-Nathan

[Rokk]

[quote name='AmoiMan' date='Jun 28 2003, 08:43 AM'] [quote name='Rokk' date='Jun 27 2003, 09:57 AM'] [/QUOTE]
Wait, maybe I missed something. You will let gays get married, gain all the legal rights of a spouse and enable them to adopt children and have a family. But, you would pass laws saying they can't have sex in the privacy of their own homes? [/QUOTE]
yes...you missed something. I didn't say I will let gays get married. I said I think it will happen. I don't make the laws. [/quote]
Gotcha. Now I understand where you are coming from.

[Rokk]

Welcome back Nathan. I missed you while you were gone. Um...uh...er...... not in a gay way, you know. I mean, I'm not gay!!

Edited by Rokk, 28 June 2003 - 08:10 PM.

[jkaris]

You know....
as many times as Jasons nekkid arse was downloaded, I would have to guess that there are a lot of closet gay guys on this board...

[fuzzbuster]

Can you find examples in nature of homosexuality? Nope, they don't exist.

Are you serious? Do you really believe that?
Maybe you have never been to a farm. Animals have urges. True, they are based on the primal instinct to procreate, meaning male/female sex, but I am quite sure that procreation has little to do with an animals desire for gratification. I mean, seriously, are you always thinking of baby-making when you get laid?
Here is a true story:
When I was 15, worked on a farm that raised cashmere goats. The bucks(males) and the does(females) were kept in seperate areas for the purpose of population control. This is not because male goats tend to impregnate every doe they see, but, more basicaly, they are horny as, well, goats. They will mount anything that resembles an animal and proceed to fornicate with vigor.
Well, since the bucks had no access to does, what do you suppose they would do? They would rape each other, that's what.
So, anyway, at that time the farm had 4 bucks. One, named Victory, was the dominant male. One day, Victory broke his leg while trying to molest a "lesser" buck. A vet came out to the farm, and after examining Victory decided that the best thing was to "put him down," as it were. He filled a hypodermic needle with some type of poison, injected him, and within 30 seconds victory fell to the ground, dead as dead can be.
It took 30 seconds to put him to sleep, but it took at least 3 minutes to fight off the other bucks, who were busy having their way with the corpse before it even hit the ground.
Do you think the goats were thinking about the fact that Victory was male, or even that he was dead? No. They were only thinking of inserting their penus into an unguarded anus. Male or female, to a goat an anus is an anus.

The moral of the story? Do not bend down in front of a goat, and homosexuality DOES exist in nature.
Please, christies, do not confuse science with sunday school. They are DEFINATELY not the same thing.

[ironmask]

i don't really care about gay marraiges, or homosexuality really...
doesn't affect me.
but, "gay pride parades" and "gay pride" this and that do upset me. and they always will, until people stop calling me a nazi for claiming "Straight pride."

[Rokk]

i don't really care about gay marraiges, or homosexuality really...
doesn't affect me.
but, "gay pride parades" and "gay pride" this and that do upset me. and they always will, until people stop calling me a nazi for claiming "Straight pride."

I'm afraid that pride in being straight is part of the unholy trinity. There are three things that you absolutely cannot be proud of in America: being straight, being white and being male. I won't advocate for or against this notion. I'm just pointing out an observation.

[ToyMan]

well, some people don't see much reason to be proud of being a member of a group that faces little to no adversity.

i don't like pride parades, either.

pride in the heterosexual lifestyle is paraded before our eyes every time we turn on the tv, and see an ad that tells us that if we buy this new car, we'll get loads of steaming poontang.

the difference is, we're used to it. companies have been marketing their products through heterosexual insecurity for as long as there have been advertisements.