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Mystery of the Non-MUSCLE Sculpts


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#126 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:47 AM

But some of the Parts have 28 figures (ie, Part 1). You could just dump those into the trays. The use of bins would also allow the occasion accident (DM, "The Hulk") to slip through. If the plug fell out, I wouldn't go digging through looking for one figure. I'd just plug the hole for the next batch.

I'm not tied to my idea, but I like it because it's based on long-time Mattel input - not just crazed fans.
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#127 Starman

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:49 PM

Maybe it wasn't due to there being problems during the manufacturing process. But more likely due to the fact that the figures didn't meet certain toy safety regulations because they had small parts that may have choked small children. If you look on the muscle packs it says for ages over 4. Even children slightly over this age small parts could be a problem. This is only a theory as I don’t know what toy regulations existed from 1985 onwards in the US and UK. Though I wouldn't group SC with SHA and BHS, as all that needed to be done was to mould the body part and not the legs. Hence the fact why we see more SC's than the other two because it passed the safety test. A batch of SHA and BHS figures were probably produced and then halted or withdrawn, but several may have leaked into the public. Maybe from employees taking them home as souvenirs or maybe some began to be distributed and then withdrawn, but some got away.
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#128 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:58 PM

But more likely due to the fact that the figures didn't meet certain toy safety regulations because they had small parts that may have choked small children.

No
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#129 Starman

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 01:05 PM

oh right, thanks for the link Veers.
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#130 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:03 PM

.....Don't take this the wrong way at all.....But of course they had to have bins! :) I'm not an expert of course, but I've seen plenty of production lines on t.v. the net, and what have you, where production pieces are piled in bins. It's the only productive way of producing HIGH volume materials. In fact I'm sure aside from the injection machines and lighting, the factory would try to save as much money on electricity as possible. A 28 pack contains on average 4 separate trees of figure. So with four bins full of each tree, one worker could essentially pick, clip, and package a single four pack ALL DAY!



This is how I always imagined the process, I figured it was really the best way, or pretty spot on Of course there would be more than one injection machine at the factories disposal. So the Runner(tree) would get pressed, thrown down a chute to an open Bin, the Bin would be filled accordingly, rolled over to the worker along with the other bins (workes shift would be timed accordingly as well, staggered work time). The Worker would then pick a runner from a bin, clip and possibly deflak the figures (they WOULD have a packing guide of some kind), then place them in the tray, then rinse and repeat until the tray was filled, and more than likely would then send the tray down to the packer, who would slip the tray into a 28 box, then place them in a shipping box.

The process would be the same way for 10 and 4 packs accordingly, accept the bins would more than likely be unbiased to the tree, and many different Runners(trees) would be placed in said bin. The worker would probably have about 10 4 pack bubbles to fill at a time, or more, then they would roll down to be sealed to a card, and packed in a case. That would be why we would see such a huge percentage of alike 4 packs or figures in a single case of 4 pack figures.

I guess that makes sense. :) Arguments welcome of course, not saying this is fact, just pretty sure it's close.

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#131 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:27 AM

Yeah, it rang true for me too. I've seen old vintage SW videos of the Kenner factory. I don't imagine the process to be incredibly different. However, I always assumed that the 28 packs were put into bins differently, because it would be faster to pack them if you didn't have to sort through figures.

But while this thread is about the Trees and Non-MUSCLE sculpts, I do think it has inspired a pretty realistic explanation of behind why Mattel might have discontinued SC, BHS, and SHA.
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#132 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:36 AM

First off, that Video is just the SICK!!!! Thanks for posting that, it's so freakin cool to see that someone saved that video, and youtube rocks. :lol: And were those actually American Workers!!! :banana: Wow! Just Wow! :cry:

But you did get that I meant each tree would be separated WHOLE (unclipped) into different Bins right? That's what I meant, if I somehow didn't specify that. :friends:

But man I really love that video regardless of the topic. I think I'll watch it again, and then see If I can find more. :lol:
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#133 Soupie

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:51 AM

So I think I know why SC, SHA, and BHS were dropped. The pieces were a problem in the bins – they probably kept getting separated.

Veers, maybe you already answered this, so sorry for the repetition. You're suggesting that SC, SHA, and BHS caused problems because their small parts were getting lost in the bins.

My question is: How did Bandia deal with these figures? They also had 28-packs and capsules. Wouldn't they have had issues with these small parts getting lost in the bins too? Obviously, Bandai found a way to use SC, SHA, and BHS in the bins. Why couldn't Mattel?

For that matter, where do you suppose MUSCLEs were packaged? Weren't they packaged in Bandia factories in Japan as well? If that's the case, then there is no reason to believe they would have done anything differently for MUSCLE than they did for Kinkeshi.

Finally, SHA and BHS had their small parts attached. If they were dropped into a bin, there should have been no problems with their small pieces being lost. They would have stayed attached to the figure. SC, on the other hand, if he legs were not attached may have been a problem. What a pain to search through the bin to find him and his legs to make sure they were packaged together. I think this could explain why his legs weren't included. But this begs the question: Why was Bandai able to do it and not Mattel?

(And that video is incredibly awesome. :friends: )
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#134 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 06:19 AM

Well, though I don't see it as being an issue about the small parts falling off myself. It is a possibility that the softer keshi rubber made it less likely for these parts to separate during a dumping or plunging or whatever, The harder muscle plastic may have been pretty brittle in mid cooling. But seeing as no Japanese collector or American collector has come forward or properly documented a SC with legs attached I doubt they were, but I would like it if I was wrong. :friends:

It's very possible that the workers clipped and separated each individual figure into a pile, or there was one worker per tree that would clip all the figures off a tree, place them in the tray, then flow the tray down to the next worker who would thus fill in the next tree and so on and so forth.

So many possibilities, so little chance we will ever actually know. Too bad a Japanese collector wasn't also a worker at the factory who would take interest in sharing this information. :banana: Really I don't think many adults in the 80's could give a crap about toys. :lol:
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#135 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 06:21 AM

Yes, Bandai manufactured them in Japan and possibly China. And you're right, Bandai probably would have used an almost (if not exactly) identical process.

But from several Mattel employees they have stated that Mattel was insane about quality measures. So this colors my perspective of how they handled manufacturing.

So we know that SC was packaged without his legs. This is 100% fact, no argument – he's been seen this way in 4-packs. So were the leg molds blocked or the legs clipped as scrap?

If it's the latter, then it's a wasteful and slow step. Blocking that specific portion of the mold makes the most sense. SHA and BHS can't be blocked, because they would look odd. SHA wouldn't have a head and BHS would look like #3 with a hole. I also imagine that blocking that specific section of a figure mold could possibly impact the quality of the actual figure – something Mattel wouldn't want.

I also assume that breakage of the parts was more likely because MUSCLE's were more rigid. The parts are designed to break, so applied pressure could cause separation. Kinkeshi might have been less susceptible to breakage because they bent.

These three figures are the only figures that have this "problem." But this wouldn't really be noticeable until production started. So after the initial production wave, which I have been told is a smaller first run by several Mattel employees, these problems arise. This is why SC, SHA, and BHS are fairly plentiful – but still fewer than the average flesh figure.

So what is the easiest solution to these problems? Discontinue them.

I know this isn't ground breaking, but before I felt like we were just stating hypotheses. This feels more grounded in Mattel-based knowledge, and Tree and Part data - more fact based.
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#136 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:08 AM

I wasn't sure where to put this, but after the Comichara situation it seemed like we should think about these. This auction was two non-poster MUSCLEs from Part Nine, but the rest of the figures don't jump put with any pattern (why one Part Eight #3?).
Attached File  2923_1_.jpg   75.93K   32 downloads

Same with this auction. The Parts and figures don't make sense.
Attached File  2925_1_.jpg   79.68K   30 downloads
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#137 Nyarlathotep

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 02:17 PM

Hmm, for the second is it possible some have been switched out?
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#138 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 06:03 PM

Well, firstly, these packs are released under the Popy banner, and not Bandai.

So either they are just cleverly reusing old stock figures, or maybe they are from Popy molds? :unsure: The first ones have been made into little keychains with paperclips or something. Notebook buddies or the like. :p
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#139 Krangala

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 03:56 PM

When I visited the Marx Toy museum, I learned that when they wanted to remove a particular sculpt, they could either temporarily, or permanently fill a mold with a metal that didn't melt at the same temp as plastic (but was still softer than the steel die, for later removal).
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#140 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:23 PM

Good info to have! I'm sure that method is commonly used for lots of injection molded items.
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#141 Krangala

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:54 PM

It's pretty interesting, because it allows for a variety of sculpts, especially if you wanted to remove an accessory from a character, or re-pose a character's body without altering the entire sculpt.
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