67 replies to this topic

[Personality #9]

With Revenge of the Sith finally released, we finally get to see Anakin's transformation to Darth Vader. During his battle with Obi-Wan, his former master is quoted "You were the chosen one!".

While episodes I-III state roughly that Anakin was to be the chosen one, I always considered that the chosen one was indeed Luke. It's somewhat implyed in the title of episode IV, A New Hope, which seems to be saying that another has risen to take the place of the original hope. It seems to me that since Anakin technically dies when he becomes Darth Vader that his destiny was then shifted towards his children, in particular, Luke.

Luke was the one who destroyed the Death Star, gave hope to the Rebel cause, learned/became a Jedi against near impossible odds and convinced his father to kill the Emperor... which leads to Anakin's possiblity for actually being the chosen one... After it's all said and done, it was Darth Vader (Anakin) who killed the Emperor in Return of the Jedi, not Luke... what do you guys think about this?

[THEGODBEAST]

I was all ready to say Luke...then I read your last line and you are correct...it WAS Anakin that killed the Emperor.

TGB

[Knuxman]

I think Anakin was supposed to be the chosen one, but was brought to the dark side, so his son was brought into the picture by the force. I think that wat truly balanced the force was the end of ROTJ by Anakin redeeming himself by saving Luke, thus bringing the two strongest jedi together in the ways of the force.

[Soupie]

Yay! My turn, yay! More geeky SW speculation.

The real question is: What the hell does a "balanced" Force look like?

My opinion is that Anakin brought balance to the Force as a result of his actions in ROTS. At the end of the movie there was:

Two powerful Jedi: Yoda and Obi-Wan,

Two powerful Sith: Darth Sidious and Darth Vader

Two potential, but neutral Force users: Luke and Lea

That, in my opinion, is a balanced Force. Whereas having a Jedi (Light Side) or Sith (Dark Side) dominated Force would not be balanced.

The only potential flaw (that I can think of at the moment) in this reasoning is the potential existence of Jedi not killed by Vader or Clones, which would obviously tilt the balance toward the Light Side of the Force.

[BaltanII]

I'm no big SW geek, but a while ago I was thinking about that after seeing the commercial (nope, haven't seen ROTS yet). I think that Anakin always was the Chosen One - that he was meant to turn to the dark side so that, through his son Luke, the Sith could finally be eliminated. Without Anakin, there would be no Luke and Leia, and then there might not have been any way for the Empire to be defeated.

EDIT: Soupie brought up a good point - what the heck is a balanced Force?

Edited by Boaconda, 23 May 2005 - 12:29 PM.

[Soupie]

Without Anakin, there would be no Luke and Leia, and then there might not have been any way for the Empire to be defeated.

I'm not trying to preach a "balanced-Force" gospel, but seriously, with only one side of the Force dominating, it wouldn't really be "balanced." (I know you weren't even talking about that, but only about whether Anakin was the Chosen or not.)

Anyhow, reading your post made me realize even more so: If there were no good and bad side to balance one another, then the good would become the bad and the bad would become the good. Absolute power corrupts.

So, in short, I believe Anakin was the Chosen in that he brought balance to the Force, while Luke was the hero of the Light Side, in that his actions brought it to dominance.

Okay, I'm done...

Edited by Soupie, 23 May 2005 - 12:50 PM.

[Frobman]

I dunno who to go for. There are good arguments regarding Anakin, then there are more stuff with Luke and the Jedi Academy shown in the books/comics/games and so on. Plus I don't know if the Sith existing would bring balance, seeing as in Ep. I they said that the Sith used to be extinct, or something. But I'll put in a vote at some point.

[Soupie]

Plus I don't know if the Sith existing would bring balance, seeing as in Ep. I they said that the Sith used to be extinct, or something.

So are you saying that in the past, before Ep. I, the Force was balanced, despite the absence of Sith, or are you assuming it was? For all I know, the Force has never been balanced. The prophecy doesn't say, "The Chosen will bring balance to the Force once again," it merely says, "...will bring balance to the Force."

I've no knowledge of the books, comics, or games so I have no idea.

EDIT: If there were ever a time in the SW universe when the Sith did not exist AND the Force was balanced then my theory would be proven wrong.

All we really need is one little tidbit from GL that indicates whether the Force is, or isn't, balanced at the end of ROTS. If it isn't balanced, then my theory is shizznit.



Anyhow, do a quick Google search for "bring balance to the Force" and you'll see this isn't the only forum where this question is being pondered.

Edited by Soupie, 23 May 2005 - 02:33 PM.

[Soupie]

Hello, my first post and I am very enthusiastic (I dont know why i waited so long to register). Anyway, remember in TPM when Windu replies to Qui Gon "You refer to the one who will bring balance to the Force?" Well, although the Force is not synonymous with the Jedi, it seems as if the Chosen One will be of assistance to the light side. I belive the inbalance is the result of the "clouding" caused by Sidious as he grows more and more powerful and closer to his "Revelation" to wipe out the Jedi. His presence in the Force (although he cannot be pinpointed) has resulted in the Jedis' decreasing connection with the Force. The Chosen One must balance the Force by destroying this dark presence. Anakin, the vergence in the Force, brought balance once he destroyed Sidious. The will of the Force disregards the Jedi as a whole; thus the extiction of the Jedi Order. I do believe that once Vader/Anakin tossed Palps down the hole, he balanced the Force, cased closed. His turning back to the light side was a 'happy ending,' so he would not go down in history as purely evil. Anyway, please respond as I am anxious to discuss the meaning of Star Wars till the end of time.

I copied this quote from the Jedi Council Forums (Link). I thought it was a good counter argument. Basically, the idea is that the Force is the Light side, and only balanced when the Sith (Dark Side) are not present. This might be what Frobman was trying to get at when he pointed out that Ep. I mentions a time when there was no Sith.

But if a balanced Force is as simple as there being no Sith, then why didn't Windu say "...restore balance to the Force."

[THEGODBEAST]

Soupie you are too a SW GEEK!!! Look at you...postin' all this speculation!!!

TGB

[Ramses]

Jeff Jarrett



I just had to do it

[Knuxman]

But if a balanced Force is as simple as there being no Sith, then why didn't Windu say "...restore balance to the Force."

Because he's not the jedi equivelant to an english major

[Beligerant1]

I dont think I know very much about star wars, but in one of the movies (I think episode I), didnt they pretty much explain that the force was actually a lifeform that existed within the jedi? Like didnt they say that anakin had a certain count of something that resulted in his being strong in the force? (Like when you or I would get a blood count and our hemoglobin is 16, in regards to the force, anakin's count was high) If you think about it like that, then you could also think of the dark side as a disease, or abnormality with the force. So, the darkside is to the jedi as cancer is to a human. On that same line of thought, for us to be "balanced" would be to have homeostasis. Therefore for the force to be balanced, the disease would have to be eradicated completely, or in some relationship where both sides could exist without destroying the other (think sickle cell, which sucks, but also prevents malaria). Seems to me that the dark side would need to be completely destroyed to bring balance to the force, since it threatens to make the light side extinct. But that still doesnt answer the question of who was the chosen one. That completely depends on how you look at it, because, yes anakin destroys palpatine, but he wouldnt have done it if it wasnt for Luke's influence, you could easily argue for either one of them.

but i voted for anakin, because if not for him, Luke wouldnt exist, and he ultimately did destroy the sith since once he turned to the light side again, the only sith left was the emporer, which he then destroyed.

Edited by Beligerant1, 23 May 2005 - 05:56 PM.

[Soupie]

Soupie you are too a SW GEEK!!!   Look at you...postin' all this speculation!!!

Yeah, I did get a little carried away, didn't I?



It's probably as simple as Vader chucking Palps down the hole.

[AmoiMan]

basically, Luke is a bee-eye-itch

R2-D2 is obviously the chosen one. Who saves the day CONSTANTLY?

[Personality #9]

Another comment I should make for Luke being the Chosen one, (and maybe some of you SW buffs could help me out with the details here) is that after Return of the Jedi Luke continues the Jedi legacy and teaches others to use the Force, but in a more modern style. Jedi's use guns and I don't think there's an age limit and things like that. Luke continues the Jedi way and even ventures to the Dark side purpusely in order to find a proper balance for everything, Anakin of course, does none of this...


Does anyone else here know what I'm talkin' about?!?

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Man I wish I caught this thread earlier. I just have some stuff to add. How old is the prophecy about the chosen one? And if I am correct with my SW history, then the Sith were a Race that existed on the planet Korriban. They were not Jedi or Force users, but they were a cruel race. Exiled Jedi (Not evil Jedi, but punished ones) Took up residence on Korriban and As they say Bad association spoils useful habits. Poof Dark Jedi who twisted the force to their own ends. Soon these Dark Jedi Took on Sith (the race) Apprentices. Soon these Dark Jedi had spread within the Sith World, a large portion of this populace had strong sensitivity to the force, but were not aware of it. And through training became force users themselves over a period of generations. Thus gave birth to the Force Using Sith that we are aware of. These Sith started their own empire only to be fought back by the Jedi and the race eventually destroyed themselves to extinction. Thus any Jedi that fall away and start using the dark magic's that the Sith were known for using were known as Sith. These things took place Thousands upon thousands of years before the formation of a Republic. There a nice potentially correct Star Wars history lesson. If this is true then the force was at balance before the Sith were born and with their birth brought unbalance to the force. According to after stories in games books etc. There were dark force users after Palpatines death Thus I Hesitate to pick either Luke or Anakin as the chosen one. But since Anakin is dead and Luke is not then Luke would be the potential chosen one unless there are sith after he dies. Chew on that for a while.

[Soupie]

If this is true then the force was at balance before the Sith were born and with their birth brought unbalance to the force.

The more I read about this, and the more pieces I hear that GL has shared, the more this seems to be the case.

According to after stories in games books etc.  There were dark force users after Palpatines death Thus I Hesitate to pick either Luke or Anakin as the chosen one.

Anakin wouldn't necessarily have to have established a balanced Force forever. Perhaps the fact that he balanced it at one point in time is enough.

[Rokk]

Another reason why I feel Anakin is the Chosen one and not Luke is that most support for Luke being the Chosen One comes from the books. I don't base my decision concerning this question on any of the Star Wars books. The EU (Expanded Universe) consists of all of the books written by other authors. The RU (Real Universe) are the movies and anything written by Lucas or receiving his official stamp of approval like the animated Clone Wars series. Lucas has stated before that ""There are two worlds here, there's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe-the licensing world of books, games and comic books."

The RU is canon. The EU is not. Looking only at the RU sources, I think it is clear that Anakin is the Chosen One and not Luke.

Edited by Rokk, 24 May 2005 - 05:27 AM.

[Tortle]

One more anti-EU point: the EU authors generally don't know what George is up to. While George approves or disproves some things to support a general continuity (or, basically to keep EU authors from accidentally exploring plot points he wants to use in the movies), he doesn't let them know why (otherwise, everyone and his mother would know the plots to the new movies before they're released).

For example, Artimus mentioned events in Dark Force Rising as evidence that Luke is the Chosen One. But, DFR was released way before Episode I, which was when the whole concept of the Chosen One came about. The author had no idea that there would be a "Chosen One" prophesy, and George had limited influence on the storyline of DFR, so there's no reason to assume that it can be used to support a claim for either Anakin or Luke.

Also, some of the books explaining Luke's continuing the Jedi legacy were written before Episode I as well, so those authors really had no idea what Jedi training really entailed (age limits, weapons, etc.). So, that can't really be used to support a claim supporting Anakin or Luke either.

[Frobman]

I voted for Anakin.

One thing, would the Jedi Knight games be considered canon or what? 'Cos it included Luke and Lando in Jedi Knight 2 where they featured the Jedi Academy too.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

[QUOTE]The EU (Expanded Universe) consists of all of the books written by other authors. The RU (Real Universe) are the movies and anything written by Lucas or receiving his official stamp of approval like the animated Clone Wars series. Lucas has stated before that ""There are two worlds here, there's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe-the licensing world of books, games and comic books."[QUOTE]



Your right about that Rokk. GL surly doesn't have the time or the stomach to read over every fanfic, comic, book, etc. So there are lots of that stuff that he wouldn't approve otherwise or has not even read. I know I wouldn't like to have created something and then have other people add to it or take some credit for it. That's one reason GL left the guilds and refused to give any rights to any other separate entities in the first place. So how do we know what has his seal of approval? I take it that just because it has a LucasArts sticker on that it isn't necessarily Lucas approved, right? Everyone's arguments are well based, and it sure does look like Anakin is winning the right to be the chosen one. Man, I think I am gonna go watch "Kung Pow" now. All this chosen one stuff has got me going in circles.

[Tortle]

One thing, would the Jedi Knight games be considered canon or what? 'Cos it included Luke and Lando in Jedi Knight 2 where they featured the Jedi Academy too.

Rokk is right: nothing in EU is considered canon unless it has George's "seal of approval". So far, the only EU I know of that George has approved as canon are Shadows of the Empire and Clone Wars season 2. Everything else isn't canon.

[Personality #9]

A point that I find very important to this whole issue is that even though Darth Vader did in fact kill the Emperor in Return of the Jedi it was Luke who convinced him of doing so at (almost) the extent of his life. If it were not for Luke's selfless act of throwing his lightsaber down and refusing to kill his father in their duel, none of the following actions would have taken place, and the Empire wouldn't have fallen...