74 replies to this topic

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

We all know that the board has it's ups and downs, but it seems to have more downs lately than ups. It seems that newer members are taking off much quicker, and older members are just losing interest. Whether its been about Muscles, Kinnikuman, or other random Crazyness, the board has always seemed to have been stocked with posts and interested members! Is it that there is just nothing new going on? Who knows. This pole is aimed at how long you believe the board has left in the way of interest, not whether the board will stay up on the net, cause that's Jkaris' call. Will our little seemingly inconspicuous hobby continue to go unoticed by the vast majority? Or will there be a sudden boom in our population in the future? Feel free to post your opinions on the matter, and speculate. Who knows maybe a comment you make can change the future of our Board.

[Soupie]

The decline in activity is impossible not to notice. Most of the voracious posters, including myself, have either disappeared or cut back on posting.

Why haven't these people been replaced by new members?

The pool of MUSCLE collectors was relatively small to begin with, and even though MUSCLEs continue to sell well on eBay, those collectors don't appear to be interested in joining a community such as the AKIA.

Therefore, as the AKIA MUSCLE collecting and cartoon watching community disperses, it's doubtful that it will be replaced.

Personally, as far as I can tell, many transactions are still taking place behind the scenes via PMs, which is good, but even that will evetually grind to a halt.

I don't mean any of this in a negative way. I think what is happening -- considering the age and popularity, or lack thereof, of MUSCLEs and the cartoon, and the fact that peoples' interests change -- is natural and normal.

[jkaris]

When I started this board, there were only about 100 registered users on the original email group, and only a handful of them would say anything. We started this up and immediately garnered a lot more activity from the get go. Better format.

Then the show came around, and we not only picked up a ton of new blood from the UM show, but also a ton of people who saw UM and remembered M.U.S.C.L.E.

The board is slower since the demise of the cartoon, but also because we are all getting older. Tortle just got married, Rokk recently had his first child, I have been swamped with work, so much that I made the decision to close the store, Doc is overseas, TGB is in the midst of a divorce, etc, etc. We are all getting older and hobby time is harder to come by. The UM show is gone and all the fan boys and girls have moved on to something else. Only the "old timers" remain. Hell, Chibi Riya just turned 18. She was 13 when she started spamming the board. We're just getting older, and there hasn't been anything new in the hobby for quite some time.

UM re-run ratings were as good as the TMNT re-run ratings, so there may be a spark of hope there. And while MUSCLEs have been selling at an all time low for quite some time (thanks to a few spots in Toy Fare and what not, which reminded people that they had an old collection in the attic to get rid of) none of the auctions really mention the board or the group. Granted, anyone looking for Kinnikuman get5s directed to the AKIA, and likewise for MUSCLE to Nate's page. But there is definitely a lull.

But really, what is there left to talk about? Most of the discussion back then, was always spurred on by creative ventures of others in the group. The Daily MUSCLE, Kinniku-MUSCLE wrestling, Fox and Tortle, Jason and Tsubasa's page, etc, etc. It seems like all the creative minds have lost interest or don't have time, and that there aren't really any new ideas floating around.

The Beastformers/Battle-Beasts site is blowing up, as we did in the beginning. And a few of those guys are carrying over here. But there really isn't too much discussion going on over here.

I do have a couple ideas though.

1. Any of you guys selling MUSCLEs or even other toys on eGay, plug the boards and Nate's page. The boards for obvious reasons, but Nate's page most importantly. Why Nate's page? A trip through Nate's nostalgia machine will get them hooked on MUSCLE again.

2. I am planning on merging the boards sometime soon (soon in Johnny time, which could actually be quite a long while). It will be one large toy board, with subsections for MUSCLE, Kinnikuman, Battle Beasts, FOP, etc, with shared community areas, like the the Sandbox, Got Toys, Sightings, etc. That will consolidate the group and lead to more cross pollination, if you will.


However, when this will happen, is really up in the air. I am strapped for time anymore (and space, since the sixe of my personal toy collection is quite obscene ). I also don't have the interest I used to. To be quite frank, I almost listed the whole enchilada (server, sites, store, inventory, personal collection) on ebay last month, but my wife talked me out of it. I just don't have time anymore to do anything fun with them anymore. Gotta make money to pay the bills! I'm slotted for a big increase at work, so that would allow me to cut down on side work and maybe freeup some time, but even then, you never know.

[Soupie]

But really, what is there left to talk about? Most of the discussion back then, was always spurred on by creative ventures of others in the group.

I agree with the bulk of your post, Jkaris. And who should know better than you...

However, there have been PLENTY of things to talk about including Arforbes additional rare finds, the MUSCLE color code, the MCIA, the micro MUSCLE thing, etc.

I think it has more to do with, as you said, the oldies moving on the youngies finding MUSCLE b-o-r-i-n-g.



In any event, I think linking the boards and focusing on "toys" in general is a great idea!

[arforbes]

I also agree with your post Johnny. I think the interest has dwindled a bit, however there are still many collector's that have not lost interest at all. I still collect actively every day, mainly colors now, since that seems to be an achievable goal with the creation of the MCIA and the possibility of rare colored figures. And as Soupie said, Super Rare discoveries always spark interest. And there have been a lot of them recently, more this past year that any other ever. The Magnificent 11, Dr. Bonbe, Red Geronimo, and the 3 Blue Super Rares! That's huge in M.U.S.C.L.E. collecting!

I think the merging of the boards is a great idea too. That would bring two fantastic communities together to share the interest among both.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Yep. Your post pretty much hits the nail on the head Johnny. Time changes everything and everyone. I doubt sincerely that this community will ever reach the peek that it has seen in the past, and I haven't even been here that long.

Also I think consolidating the two sites might work out great, but I don't think it should be a "basically toys" forum so to speak. I would say it should stay true to it's nature of being about small figurines instead of action figures in general. I say that because I worry that if it's just an All toys forum, it might become bloated and more of a hassle to control, you wouldn't want it becoming an overwhelming beast, but more of a quaint large dog.........That probably doesn't make any sense.

Personally Alex, I kind of feel that the great number of Super Rare finds this past year may have had more of a negative effect on Collecting. What seemed to be an occasional Boost to the forum in the past, seems to have greatly watered down the awesomeness of any new Super Rare discovery. But then again I still always hope to snatch me up my own SR while Muscle scavenging on the net.

All in all it was a huge deal when Johnny found his eleven and you snagged your coloreds. But no matter how much any of us posted about them, the interest just wasn't there. Not enough people seemed to care. I had expected more folks to have gotten involved with the MCIA and the big colors project. And I was shocked that only two people entered the MAF contest. I was so wanting to, but that's what happens. Who knows. Maybe Bandai will pull their hands out of their and shoot some Kinnikuman stuff our way on this side of the Earth, and bring about a huge revival of our hobby.

Here's hoping

[Knuxman]

I''l keep my post short and sweet. I haven't been posting much because there has been a lack of discussions in need of my posting. I was the "new blood" that came in with the show, but I've stuck it out for the long run, and even though we're in a drought now, I think the merger johnny is speaking of should help immeasurably, for both boards.

On a semi-related note, I must admit I laughed when I read "johnny-time", MC Hammer came to mind.

Viva AKIA!

[matthewf1tz]

Also I think consolidating the two sites might work out great, but I don't think it should be a "basically toys" forum so to speak.  I would say it should stay true to it's nature of being about small figurines instead of action figures in general.  I say that because I worry that if it's just an All toys forum, it might become bloated and more of a hassle to control, you wouldn't want it becoming an overwhelming beast

I know I'm even newer here but a lot of the posts in this thread have been echoing my thoughts recently. I think that merging the sites is a great idea. I agree with URS that it would be best not be a 'free for all' about toys but main sections on MUSCLE/Kinnikuman, BB/LB etc and just the main ones would work pretty much like the sites do now with all the other toys falling in.....'Other toylines'!

And I was shocked that only two people entered the MAF contest.

yeah, I was pretty shocked at that too, but I was more bummed at the complete lack of interest. I would have rather not placed in the rankings at all and had 10 people comment on Reccoom and my own entries but it was still fun to enter just a bit of an anti-climax
If someone posts a custom over on Beastformers it gets tons of comments/praise/constructive criticism....

Anyway, there is still loads of Kinnikuman I want, some MUSCLE figures I still want in a few colours and I'm really getting in to BB/LB now...and Gormiti.....oh and making customs so there is still loads of stuff I want to talk about!

Soupie's new GPK site has also got me in to them now and I think that site and the MCIA are great and a huge asset to the community along with the forums, Tortle's site and others.

Edited by matthewf1tz, 11 September 2006 - 12:21 PM.

[Tortle]

I agree with the general consensus. There isn't much interest in the forums from the old-timers. In my case, marriage wasn't really the culprit. MUSCLE is a somewhat stagnant hobby and I've moved on to other interests. But I think another problem is that the high rollers are gone. Alex is pretty much the last high roller who's actively participating in the boards.

Also, I agree that the popularity of the forums took a big hit with the cancellation of UM. With no new MUSCLE-related stuff on the horizon, there will probably be little to no new blood. Because of this, I also think that it would be a good idea to merge this forum with the Beastformers forum. If a merger doesn't take place, AKIA probably has only a few more years before it tanks. More direct interaction with Beastformer fans may generate more interest in MUSCLEs. And merging the forums may require less administrative work for Johnny.

[Adamantiumwulf]

I think a lot of it boils down to time and priorities. For old timers m.u.s.c.l.e. gets lower on the list of priorities as the time in a day seems to shrink. Marriage, kids, work, school and other commitments take up time. If you have been back in the muscle scene for almost a decade it's hard to keep the muscle flame going. I remember on the email group shortly after someone would get a flesh set they would scarcely be heard from after that if at all. Some tried to continue on by collecting colored figures.

The same may could probably be the same for the newer crop except they are moving onto the next "cool" thing.

Also as we have learned more about the roots of m.u.s.c.l.e. the mystery has all but gone. The color code and possible super rares are all that seem to be left. Satan cross has lost his uber status (poor guy).

Back when I first got back into the scene we didn't know more then a handful of the Japanese names for the figures. When we got our muscle new letters with info on kinnikuman it was WOW! Learning new things made the hobby nice. I didn't know about the m.u.s.c.l.e. nes game, the poster or the nestle quick promotion before getting back into the hobby.

Friday nights were the night to try and log into the old muscle chat and talk with other muscle heads.

The list goes on and on.

I have been around the scene for awhile and I'll be around for a long time to come. Even if it goes back to just an email list. I am far from being the most active poster on the forums but I do enjoy them even if all I do is read and look at the members web sites.

People come and people go but muscle memories are forever. Hopefully some of the friendships that have been made through the message board will be forever also.

[Kevin Mayle]

If we could get volume after volume of subbed and dubbed Kinnikuman from beginning to end on DVD to look forward to every month, and 4, 10 & 28 packs of all the Kinkeshi in MUSCLE plastic reissued to collect and trade as well as domestic (inexpensive) Romandos in Walmarts and Toys R Us', my interest would be rekindled. Then maybe they could continue were UM left off and keep it going. But none of that will ever happen, so the hobby is near death in America.

[Adamantiumwulf]

... the hobby is near death in America.

shrink maybe. Die nah.

It will go back to what it was before UM a few people who had good memories of an obscure toyline.

I still need to finish riping my vhs tapes to dvd. Now that I let my WoW account expire I can use my computer for that.

Would the Dvd's have to be dubbed? Even in Japanese I enjoy the show. I don't understand Japanese but the point gets across from the action.

Even if we got dubbed episodes once that was done intrest would be lost afterwards again.

The UM manga is still be released here in the states.

[Kevin Mayle]

... the hobby is near death in America. 

shrink maybe. Die nah.
It will go back to what it was before UM a few people who had good memories of an obscure toyline.

A dozen guys reminiscing sounds like a dead hobby to me.

Would the Dvd's have to be dubbed?

No, but it would at least have to be subbed to infuse some life into the hobby. If there was a DVD of subtitled Kinnikuman coming out every month at Best Buy through all of G1 and G2's episodes, the hobby would continue.

Even in Japanese I enjoy the show. I don't understand Japanese but the point gets across from the action.

That's not good enough to get many, many others interested.

Even if we got dubbed episodes once that was done intrest would be lost afterwards again.

Of course, that's why I said, "they could continue were UM left off and keep it going." Couple that with the toyline rerelease and there will be reinvigoration. It wouldn't last forever, but nothing does. Other than that, what could possibly keep MUSCLE alive? Continuously rerunning the same UM episodes? There will always be a few die hard enthusiasts for anything, but an actual thriving community of excited fans is fast becoming a thing of the past for MUSCLE.

[TheOrgg]

If we could get volume after volume of subbed and dubbed Kinnikuman from beginning to end on DVD to look forward to every month*SNIP*

Change that to 'every six months,' and it is possible.

Johnny and I between us have the technology to put together dubbed Gen 1 disks. All we need is TRANSLATORS who will translate the DVDs that the board has collectivly-- I firmly believe that between Ebay, No!!Assia, and other wiles that we could find a member with each Kinnikuman episode in good quality to dub.

Subtitles, however, would be difficult, as neither I nor Jonny know how to do that.




As for my time in the hobby, I still am as active as possible. Looking around local Garage sales, scouting through the 'ten-cent toys' boxes, looking in old, run-down shops for MUSCLEs or knockoffs, looking on the toy isles of every non-toystore to see if there's a knockoff that's been released... Looking for good deals on the games that are out (I saw a boxed MUSCLE game with instructions... But I'm not paying $30 for it), attempting to find the Ultimate Muscle games for $5 or less with box and instructions... putting in my maximum bid on lots of MUSCLES or the Poster... attempting to find the MUSCLE Cake Display (no luck yet... one close call... they threw that box away 'a year or two ago').

And attempting to get enough $$$$ for a few more cases of the UMCCG to get a full set of cards for each set, and finish translating the game I've become the Keeper of the Rules for.


Oh, and buying the UM manga.


I still love this hobby!


Then again, I'm a 22-year-old unchanging Asperger-Syndrome non-tactful who clumsily attempts to hit on the two fangirls who still come to the board...

Edited by theorgg, 11 September 2006 - 05:48 PM.

[Soupie]

Then again, I'm a 22-year-old unchanging Asperger-Syndrome non-tactful who clumsily attempts to hit on the two fangirls who still come to the board... 

ROTFLMFAO

[pasvagrsvj]

What's up, Guys. I've actually been feeling the need to jump back in, myself. I've been out of it for a while. I too, like Godbeast, just wrapped up a divorce. The boards were getting a little too packed for me when I dropped off. I'd like to start buying again, but I'm broke, and now 30 years old. I have been looking, though...hmmm.

[GRANDTHEFT]

hmmm , I sense Muscleheads are losing there faith , why?
why indeed did my fellow collectors even bothered to collect them in the first place.
It wasn't because of these forums , and i'm pretty sure you were not made to do so under dourest.

Everthing has a cycle , as do collectors , they will return , in time.
for those that remain our duty of care lies in the preservation of this site and our mateship built over the past several years , so that when they new or old collectors return they have an easy path to follow back into the hobby.

As i have wrote before , as a child i had around 33 muscles , i thought and still do that they were the greatest toy's in the world , i knew nothing about there history , names , places where they where from etc, etc only that they were COOL.
As i got older, no one had or even remembered them , and for many , many years i thought i must be the only guy in the world with them , and you know what , i didn't care , not one bit , because i valued them so much.

I'm 34 now , have a full flesh & color set , kinnikuman you could die for , and a bunch of cool stuff i sold my soul to johnny for.
Even so with all this i still feel the same way i do about the hobby , and there are enough of us that will have enough faith and passion for the hobby to keep it alive for a very long time , i know my 13yo son values his collection , he won't even trade me!

maybe thats where the next generation lies.



Mischa

[arforbes]

Just to add, I don't think I will EVER get tired of M.U.S.C.L.E.s nor will I ever desire to part with them willingly. All time #1 toyline in my book.

[jkaris]

i know my 13yo son values his collection , he won't even trade me!
maybe thats where the next generation lies.

Mischa

Mischa has a point. I think, at the latest, the next MUSCLE boom will be when our kids get to their early teens and hit upthe board.
Hell, between Darrin, Marty, Mischa and myself, our kids should be on in a few years.

[Reccoom Kaboom]

Maybe blue kinnikuman. com t-shirts with pink print walking around at a few wizardworld conventions would help? just a thought....

I hit these boards about twice a day. Sometimes I post, sometimes I don't, but this is always a stop for me when I jump online. It's part of my balanced diet.

I agree with Matt on the action figure contest, and how dissapointing the lack of interest was, but I give all the credit in the world to Johnny for hosting it and putting up a prize from his own funds to get some activity going. I woulda sent six more if I could, just out of appreciation.

I don't know about everyone else, but getting older and keeping the the muscle-fires burning hasn't been that hard. But having a girlfriend that loves em too helps

those are some of my thoughts, the rest oozed out before I could type...

[Kevin Mayle]

I don't think any of us will stop liking MUSCLEs or Kinnikuman. I just don't think the interest will grow, because it just isn't a property that has been given enough respect in America. Take Gatchaman for example. It's a Japanese cartoon from 1972 and it has a huge fan base in America now, but only had a handfull of fans reminiscing with their fading memories through the 80's. When I was growing up, it was hard to find people that even remembered it's 1978 Americanized version "Battle of the Planets." But in the late 90's the high profile artist, Alex Ross rekindled the memories of it across America and introduced it to many new fans. Since then we've gotten books, comics, cds, dvds, toys and other assorted merchandise. There are even annual Gatchaman conventions now (Gatchacon). It's really widespread and many of the fans weren't alive for it the first time around, over a decade before Kinnikuman. That's one of the reasons why I don't buy the argument about how they won't market the 80's & 90's Kinnikuman series here because it is too old and primitive. If that's the case, why do I see Astro Boy (1962) and Speed Racer (1967) dvds at Walmart? Or any American cartoons from the 60's and 70's for that matter. Dragon Ball started in the 80's too. Kinnikuman just isn't given a chance. Personally, I think they should dub the 45 episode early 90's series of Kinnikuman and play them uncut on Adult Swim. I think the general viewing audience would love those and would then welcome the more comical and "primitive" 80's series. From there it could spread, but as it is, it doesn't look like our community has much hope beyond a handful of aging diehards trying to keep the flame alive, and it shouldn't be like that. It's such a great property, it should really be thriving. If it was presented properly, like MUSCLEs were in their first year, then the interest would be there. If the second year of MUSCLEs were the new figures instead of the coloreds, interest wouldn't have died widespread so rapidly. If the 90's series was on cable TV uncut instead of UM, it would have been more successful. If the strengths of the property were presented to the public, they would accept the weaknesses. Dragon Ball Z had to be on American television first before we, as a whole, would accept the older, kiddie Dragon Ball episodes or the newer Dragon Ball GT ones.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Take Gatchaman for example. It's a Japanese cartoon from 1972 and it has a huge fan base in America now, but only had a handfull of fans reminiscing with their fading memories through the 80's. When I was growing up, it was hard to find people that even remembered it's 1978 Americanized version "Battle of the Planets." But in the late 90's the high profile artist, Alex Ross rekindled the memories of it across America and introduced it to many new fans. Since then we've gotten books, comics, cds, dvds, toys and other assorted merchandise. There are even annual Gatchaman conventions now (Gatchacon).

I know what you mean! Isn't that just weird how that works? My Dad used to tell me about "Battle of the Planets" when I was a little kid, and he's 51.

Kinnikuman just isn't given a chance. Personally, I think they should dub the 45 episode early 90's series of Kinnikuman and play them uncut on Adult Swim. I think the general viewing audience would love those and would then welcome the more comical and "primitive" 80's series.

You would think they would do that. As I say now, when Adult Swim first started they seemed to have had class. They chose great anime shows for their starting lineup, but slowly lost it over the years. I doubt even they would take the initiative to air Popular older Japanese shows now. The anime they aired was slowly drowned out by the popularity of their original shows. I don't know about you, but Pot jokes, Buckets of blood, and incomprehensible dialouge just isn't as funny after a while. And that seems to be their main concern at the moment.

Dragon Ball Z had to be on American television first before we, as a whole, would accept the older, kiddie Dragon Ball episodes or the newer Dragon Ball GT ones.

Well when I was little, I remember them airing Dragonball on Sunday Mornings on channel 4 or something. They didn't have too many episodes then. They started showing DBZ a little later on the same channel, with a couple of movies Really early, but it didn't last long. Apparently Cartoon Network saw the potential, and jumped on it in the late 90's. I tried my best to catch every single episode.

All we can do is either wait on a network to give the original a shot, or just email the Crap out of the networks.

[Rokk]

I'm not surprised that the board has gotten slower. The cancellation of Bandai's toyline and the cartoon really hurt the community. Plus, MUSCLEs is a pretty small toyline and there is bound to be a limit on how much interest it will generate among old and new fans.

However, we still have the Ultimate Muscle manga and plenty of cool Japanese Kinnikuman toys like Romandohs and Takara's Microman Kinnikuman figures, os not all is lost.

Johnny pretty much summed everything up perfectly. Life just tends to require more time as you get older. My first son took up a lot of time and now I'm expecting a second son in January!

I still check out the board daily even if I don't post that much.

[Drtooth]

I feel that there are a few incidential newbies about to discuss the cartoon and Manga... as for MUSCLE collectors... it's a small hobby. It's not Transformers, it's not GI Joe. MUSCLE, as I've said seemed popular enough for knockoffs, but not popular enough for a mass media nostalgic refference.

What it boils down to is board loyalty and people's time. Hell, I have NOTHING but time... but when Johnny finally gets bored with the board, he'll close it down. It's not uncommon. A family Guy site just closed down, and FG is as popular as ever. Guy had too much to do to care about it.

Will some board member take the reigns for a while? I can't say. Let's cross that proverbial bridge when we proverbially come to it!

[Kevin Mayle]

Will some board member take the reigns for a while?

Originally Darrin started our online community and eventually it was passed on to Johnny. There may very well be a replacement for him in the future if it comes to that. With the amount of money Alex has sunk into his collection, I know he won't let the community disappear.

as for MUSCLE collectors... it's a small hobby. It's not Transformers, it's not GI Joe. MUSCLE, as I've said seemed popular enough for knockoffs, but not popular enough for a mass media nostalgic refference.

That is true, but this is the American Kinnikuman Information Archive. Kinnikuman has always been huge in Japan and if we could get some of that over here we'd be set. MUSCLE is small but Kinnikuman is not. Maybe in the near future any site on the internet will automatically be translated to someones home language and then we'll get all the Japanese fans to help make the world smaller and our community larger.