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#26 Metalmonkey

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:26 PM

No way I'd buy either until way later down the line when there's a steady collection of decent games available, price drop and any needed updates to newer, better working (not broken) versions.

I prefer the wii u to both just now anyway, though I still won't get one of those for a while too, I tend to stay an generation or so behind the mainstream and play the best games in my own time. I only just got an xbox 360 and I'm loving how cheap it was, and how cheap and easy second hand games are to pick up. Leaves me more money for toys!

Gotta say Microsoft have really effed up this time though, DRM is gonna suck and effed if I want some camera staring at me constantly or have to connect to the net every 24 hrs. I've heard watching movies with DRM on XB1 will know how many people are watching the movie and charge you of there's too many people in the room (like public broadcasting fees). eff that for a joke!!
Adding a fee to re-register a second hand game is vicious and greedy, and I hope they get what they deserve (a pummelling from ps4, which is clearly the better choice of the 2).

Not happy.

Edited by Metalmonkey, 17 June 2013 - 11:28 PM.

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#27 walker13.1

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:01 AM

Kindereggs vs. Xbox One

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#28 artfuldodger

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:34 AM


Gotta say Microsoft have really effed up this time though, DRM is gonna suck and effed if I want some camera staring at me constantly or have to connect to the net every 24 hrs. I've heard watching movies with DRM on XB1 will know how many people are watching the movie and charge you of there's too many people in the room (like public broadcasting fees). eff that for a joke!!
Adding a fee to re-register a second hand game is vicious and greedy, and I hope they get what they deserve (a pummelling from ps4, which is clearly the better choice of the 2).

Not happy.

 

 

Microsoft's new system is actually very awesome, it was just a bad marketing job and users that do not understand the features. PC gaming is 10x better and ahead of console gaming and MS took a step in this direction while sony is staying in 2005. Let me explain...

 

MS is implementing a cloud (sony is too but they are very different). What this will mean is that you will install your game on your machine and then you will never need the disk again. You go to a friends house, log in and you can play. No need for your disk. You can lend your game to up to 10 friends too (although the time will be limited). How awesome is that? Its like PC gaming. Disks are an outdated technology. My laptop doesnt even have a disk drive. I was so happy to see MS moving in this direction and cannot believe Sony is making them mandatory and people are happy about this old technology? Its like demanding a home cordless phone over a mobile and claming the home one is better lol.

 

About the 24 hour online check in. It is most definitely needed. Since you do not need the disk after installing on the cloud why wouldnt every single person just sell it? They need to prevent that. It makes total sense. Plus, the majority of gamers play online. I havent played a non online game since maybe 2007. I cant even log into WoW without being online. With this I just need to 'check in' every 24 hrs, then I can play offline for 24hrs if i wanted.

 

Kinect - it will NOT be monitoring you. That is just a bad rumor. You can set it to do what you want. Do you really think MS would spend millions (and i mean many many millions) to record people? Do you know how expensive server space and how big video files are? I dont think people actually believe this...


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#29 Metalmonkey

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:15 AM

Microsoft's new system is actually very awesome, it was just a bad marketing job and users that do not understand the features. PC gaming is 10x better and ahead of console gaming and MS took a step in this direction while sony is staying in 2005. Let me explain...
 
MS is implementing a cloud (sony is too but they are very different). What this will mean is that you will install your game on your machine and then you will never need the disk again. You go to a friends house, log in and you can play. No need for your disk. You can lend your game to up to 10 friends too (although the time will be limited). How awesome is that? Its like PC gaming. Disks are an outdated technology. My laptop doesnt even have a disk drive. I was so happy to see MS moving in this direction and cannot believe Sony is making them mandatory and people are happy about this old technology? Its like demanding a home cordless phone over a mobile and claming the home one is better lol.
 
About the 24 hour online check in. It is most definitely needed. Since you do not need the disk after installing on the cloud why wouldnt every single person just sell it? They need to prevent that. It makes total sense. Plus, the majority of gamers play online. I havent played a non online game since maybe 2007. I cant even log into WoW without being online. With this I just need to 'check in' every 24 hrs, then I can play offline for 24hrs if i wanted.
 
Kinect - it will NOT be monitoring you. That is just a bad rumor. You can set it to do what you want. Do you really think MS would spend millions (and i mean many many millions) to record people? Do you know how expensive server space and how big video files are? I dont think people actually believe this...


Oops... I tried to quote you while my girlfriend was talking to me and hit the thumbs up button accidentally.

Anyways, I will respond a bit to what you said in your post purely based on my own personal preference as a gamer.
I tend not to play pc/mac games and stick to the consoles as it tends to have the type of games I prefer, the only pc game that I even blinked at was WOW. I want consoles and console games, not pc games or I would jut buy a pc...
Yeah pc games are more advanced or have better res, but I don't really care about that. I like fun games, and graphics are only one component of a good game. Then there's testing and quality, and no one does this better than Nintendo (IMO).

Cloud... Whatever. I don't really care much for that either to be honest but it would be nice as well as... And not instead of actually owning a hard copy of a game that I am free to do with as I please- like I can now!
I can lend that to my friend as long as I damn well want, I paid for it. It's not like I made a copy and we can both play it, its still the same game that I paid for and own.
To make the game itself redundant after installing is just stupid. What a waste. Yeah I get that companies need to protect themselves but it should not be at the expense of gamers and by robbing them of their liberties.

As far as disks being outdated tech, that's not true at all. Well, it maybe in the pc world? Movies still use DVDs/BluRay, and yeah you can rent on Netflix or whatever but again... Hard copy. Mine. Can do with as I please (legal).
Wii U & PS4 both know that there's nothing wrong or outdated with this tech apparently also?

And, mobiles replacing cordless phones because theyre better? C'mon.. Who's to say that? It's up to each individual to decide that for themselves... I mean, they do serve different purposes. Mobiles are designed to be mobile/portable, cordless is good around the house.
I don't need one fancy machine to do everything in my life, I like it just the way it is.

Honestly, you sound like a pc head and that's the polar opposite to me. I get that we both want different things from the systems going forward, but that's why there's different machines available.
Microsoft are getting confused that xbox gamers want a gaming console and not a computer. Next they'll be making pc's more like consoles....

Lastly, that kinekt problem is that the device can detect how many people are present in the room, by isolating movement from separate persons visible. I never said recording people, I said charge you for public broadcasting if too many people are present whilst watching a movie.
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#30 walker13.1

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:36 AM

I bet PS4 sales will out do Xbox One sales this Christmas season.  Anybody want to make a friendly bet?  :)


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#31 Metalmonkey

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:22 AM

I bet PS4 sales will out do Xbox One sales this Christmas season.  Anybody want to make a friendly bet?  :)


I'm not betting against you, that would be giving money away!
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#32 ComradeCuttlefish

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:24 AM

They're both going to be crap consoles. Sony and Microsoft have just never understood gaming. They cater to the BS fratboy casual gaming mentality of playing things like Madden and Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto. That could turn out to be profitable for them, though, if people buy the consoles for the blu ray players and other perqs, like everyone who bought a PS2 because it was a really cheap DVD player at the time.

But gaming has ALWAYS been about fun and imagination. That doesn't mean beating up hookers, playing football, or shooting 10-year-olds playing online military games and then making homophobic slurgs over the headset. Gaming is about exploring dungeons, squishing walking brown mushroom creatures, rescuing princesses, and breaking barrels while recovering your banana hoard. It's going to be a very unfortunate thing if the mass of idiots would rather play Madden than Mario.


Edited by ComradeCuttlefish, 18 June 2013 - 07:25 AM.

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#33 Draznar

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:10 AM

I bet PS4 sales will out do Xbox One sales this Christmas season.  Anybody want to make a friendly bet?  :)

This shouldn't be a guessing game, it's factual knowledge!

A majority of the people I know, myself included, are very anti-sony. (Their products suck, guys. Lets just be honest here).

However, since Microsoft first announced the atrocity that is xbox one, I only know of one person who will be buying it. (And it isn't me.) To add to this, my local classifieds are swamped with people selling their xboxes and xbox products while it remains pretty clear of anything Sony related.

Microsoft shit on all of their fans and now they're going to pay the price. I personally won't be buying a PS4 (because Sony still doesn't know what a good controller is), but I'm also definitely not supporting Xbox one either. Microsoft sales are going to be in the shitter until they substantially change the system or substantially change it's "features."

I'm dumping all the money I would have spent on the new Xbox into my computer and going to call it a day with that. Console gaming for mature audiences is dead.
 


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#34 artfuldodger

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:11 AM

Anyways, I will respond a bit to what you said in your post purely based on my own personal preference as a gamer.

I understand your points. A lot of people like to have the hard copy. My mother in law is the same way with CDs. She refuses to want to use/buy mp3s because she just doesnt think its the same thing and she likes to have the CD cover or whatever. Its gotten to the point where we had trouble finding her an actual CD player. You are right about me, I am a tech guy. Everything, including my software is in the cloud at this point. I am used to all software, mp3s, games, etc to be non transferable to other people - that is how it works on the PC/Mac. I have a few friends who work in the game development industry (actually for game engine companies) and piracy from used games is really hurting the small/medium sized companies to the point that its not worth it for them to create new games (of course this isnt hurting the big ones like COD). So I am glad for most of the xbox changes stopping that. Gamestop is really the worst thing in the gaming industry right now and even though it hurts game comapnies gamers still support it. I will say though that disks are a thing of the past and this will more than likely be the last generation of consoles that has them. Everything is becoming cloud based. I havent bought a game, piece of software, or mp3 in a few years that actually came on a disk, its all digital download now.


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#35 ComradeCuttlefish

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:36 AM

piracy from used games

You mean legally reselling or trading the piece of software you have purchased?


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#36 imperfecz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:39 AM

MP3s are a compressed file and no way as good as an actual CD......  not just about having a hard copy. MP3s are crap......  so unless the music follows suit I would stick with CD or vinyl.


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#37 walker13.1

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:48 AM

MP3s are a compressed file and no way as good as an actual CD......  not just about having a hard copy. MP3s are crap......  so unless the music follows suit I would stick with CD or vinyl.

 

A couple of older guys I work with think vinyl is much better.  CDs to them are junk.


Edited by walker13.1, 18 June 2013 - 09:49 AM.

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#38 imperfecz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:04 AM

Well.....  it is. You're trading quality for convenience.


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#39 walker13.1

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:47 AM

Even After E3, The Used Games Debate is Far From Over

The overriding narrative of E3 2013 was that Sony Sony, and gamers, won. Microsoft MSFT -0.02% embarrassed itself by doubling down on unpopular strategies for connectivity, digital rights management, and used games, while Sony garnered the favor of gamers the world over by committing itself to a vision whereby buying a game gives you ownership of it. It’s a charming narrative, and it isn’t wrong — PS4 pre-orders provide a handy epilogue. But it’s not the whole story, either. While Sony made a powerful statement at its E3 press conference, the future of DRM and used games in the console space is far from written.

It’s important to remember that the PS4 is, at its heart, a platform. With the exception of first-party games, Sony isn’t dictating how developers are meant to use its box. It has a powerful GPU, and the ability to make an internet connection, and a requirement that people pay a subscription to play online multiplayer. After that, it’s a publishers’ game. If publishers want to block people from playing used games with traditional activation codes, they could theoretically do that. If they want, they can restrict pieces of online content or any other content, similar to how it was done towards the end of this generation. Here’s the statement that Sony provided to CNET, which just about sums up its policy.

talking to Kotaku:

“Any game that is made for PS4 that is physical goods, whether first-party or third-party, can go into a PS4 and play regardless of where it came from. The first player will play it, no problem, the second player will play it, no problem.â€￾

 

I may be being overly negative, but those statements still don’t unfog the future for me. The notion of an online pass is still very much on the table, and if a publisher wanted to, it’s easy to see how it could apply that idea to the entire single-player experience as well, with SimCity-style rationalization. The PS4 has cloud capabilities, which could effectively turn a single-player game into an online experience.

Ultimately, control over how video games are produced and distributed lies firmly in the hands of the people who publish video games. Microsoft is spelling out one particular vision of how those companies will be able to control their products, and Sony is allowing them to experiment on their own. But the results could be the same. If publishers on the Xbox One get some indication that stricter DRM controls are good for their bottom lines, other publishers might follow suit, or bring those same policies to the PS4. If publishers deem the experiment a massive failure, they might roll back DRM on the Xbox One as well.

We’re going to start running an experiment this fall. I tend to be of the opinion that everyone in the video games industry benefits from used games — more transactions mean more excitement, more engagement, more new games bought, and more opportunity to garner committed customers. I think that if publishers run this experiment and look seriously at the data, they’ll find the same thing. But we’ll see what happens when these policies start to hit the market.

 

http://www.forbes.co...artner=yahootix


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#40 artfuldodger

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:59 AM

I have a feeling that the publishers that block it will be the big ones that can afford to because they know everyone will buy their games regardless if users are mad (ie activision, ea, etc.). The small ones, who would benefit the most, will be afraid of the backlash. MS put that backlash on themselves, which I guess is probably good for the smaller gaming companies but bad publicity for MS. I am really curious to see all the sony/ms announcements and details about their consoles over the coming months and how developers respond to MS doing this...will they give MS any advantages for doing this? as in early release games or price or anything? idk, I just wish (and still hope) that this all will mean cheaper games (ie steam model). Although I only purchase 1-3 games a year so really none of this stuff affects me as a gamer anyway, which i why i could care less about the connect every 24hrs and such. I now have both the PS4 and Xbox One on pre order with amazon. I will probably cancel one of them unless I feel I need both for some reason or sell one during the xmas rush. At this point I am leaning towards MS due the cloud, kinect (no remote - i need this with kids and wife), and halo. Otherwise I think both consoles will function more or less the same.


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#41 Metalmonkey

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:03 PM

How does punishing loyal gamers with DRM prevent piracy? It can't. It only serves as a revenue for publishers while everyone suffers regardless if you do the right thing or not.
Wy not use DRM as a reward for doing the right thing?
Like registering your original game gives exclusive DLC that second hand games can't have access to?
The whole thing reeks of greed.
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#42 artfuldodger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:12 AM

How does punishing loyal gamers with DRM prevent piracy? It can't. It only serves as a revenue for publishers while everyone suffers regardless if you do the right thing or not.
Wy not use DRM as a reward for doing the right thing?
Like registering your original game gives exclusive DLC that second hand games can't have access to?
The whole thing reeks of greed.

 

Here is a decent article explaining this whole issue: http://www.forbes.co...to-stay-afloat/

 

Keep in mind this article is only a theory of what might happen but it brings up a lot of good issues on privacy, used games, etc. There are too many variables to really predict what will happen though. However, anything that has the chance to lower game prices is a + in my book for the end user. I am not concerned about used games at all. I hate gamestop - its the dirtiest and possibly smelliest place ive ever been to and their goal is rip me off. They sell used games for $5 less than the new one sometimes but might try to buy it from me for $10-$15 then sell for $50. I would rather see that money in the hands of a game company like Bungie than gamestop. But yea, it will suck for the people who rely on selling/buying used games. I am not really concerned with used games at all but rather the privacy issues that are being put in place.


Edited by artfuldodger, 19 June 2013 - 05:06 AM.

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#43 Draznar

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:59 AM

However, anything that has the chance to lower game prices is a + in my book for the end user.

There is already cheaper alternatives. It's called PC gaming. Some of the best games I've played came out of indie developers on the PC for anywhere between $10 - $20. I paid $10 for Terraria on PC and played it for over 100 hours. I can't say that about any game on this generation consoles.

Even the triple A titles are cheaper on PC than console. It's just another nail in the coffin for consoles for me.
 


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#44 Onyxiaphil

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:05 PM

Hahah! Microsoft removing DRM after E3 backlash

http://kotaku.com/mi...e-drm-514390310

Edited by Onyxiaphil, 19 June 2013 - 01:08 PM.

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#45 Bagface

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:33 PM

Hahah! Microsoft removing DRM after E3 backlash

http://kotaku.com/mi...e-drm-514390310

Its about time, im surprised it took them this long. I was probably still gonna buy it anyways because of the game line up, but this makes me not feel dirty about it.


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#46 Onyxiaphil

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:15 PM

This made me LOL hard.

 

http://www.dorkly.co...te-announcement


Edited by Onyxiaphil, 19 June 2013 - 04:18 PM.

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#47 artfuldodger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:20 PM

This made me LOL hard.

 

http://www.dorkly.co...te-announcement

 

Nice. That is hilarious lol.


Edited by artfuldodger, 19 June 2013 - 04:20 PM.

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#48 walker13.1

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:14 AM

"easier roaming, family sharing, and new ways to try and buy games."

 

 

WTF is he trying to say in this line?  Easier roaming?  What, someone before Xbox One wasn't able to pick up his/her Xbox and games and plug and play before in a different location?  Family sharing?  What a joke.  They were wanting to limit the online play of a game to one hour correct if the person downloaded it to the cloud?  How is that family sharing?  We had unlimited family sharing before, but you were just trying to limit us.  New ways to try and buy games?  Ha ha ha, you were just trying to cut out us reselling to Game Stop, Ebay, or any where else we decided to resell. 

 

Only an idiot wouldn't be able to see right through your greedy lies. 

 

"Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world."  "there will be no regional restrictions."

 

 

You realized you were going to lose a LOT of business from the military world with your requirement of an online check once every 24 hours.  You should realize the military doesn't always have an ability to be connected to the internet.  Good job on thinking that one through all the way. 

 

They should rename it the Xbox 180


Edited by walker13.1, 20 June 2013 - 08:46 AM.

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#49 krazedmadman

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:23 PM

Xbox has reversed almost ever complaint potential buyers brought up. unlike sony who talks a big game and then scraps half of it's consoles functionality in the 1st six months.

 

Both companies have little to no clue about core gamers but xbox will smash sony in sales yet again this holiday season.

 

Lets face it sony had almost no 1st party successes on ps3 and things don't look to be changing anytime soon.

 

I think some of the ideas MS had about restrictions was counterintuitive to attracting hardcore buyers but as always the best games will carry the system and sony games SUUUUCK.


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Posted 17 August 2013 - 03:21 PM

Xbox saved itself, by listening to all the complaints.  Then they fired or "he resigned" the guy who was responsible for all that mess.  I wouldn't be surprised if Xbox destroys Sony again.


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