128 replies to this topic

[Foxman]

very good point, you do catch my ramblings of crap that has happened.....as far as the paypal/account closing is concerned, that would be a good way to keep them from taking my money. wonder if i just closed my paypal and told my bank under no way are they to let money be taken out would work, or would i definately have to close the bank acct also? i probably wouldn't do it, because of how much stuff is tied to my bank account and whatnot, not to mention i guess i'd have to writeoff ever having a paypal account again

wouldn't it be considered dirty to close out my acct? that would make me seem like the guilty party wouldnt it?

FeePay is like the mafia. They'll get their money one way or another. If nothing else, they'll take it out of your credit.

I just hope he sends you back an item that's in the same condition that he received it in.

Edited by Foxman, 15 December 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[ironoak]

I totally feel where you guys are coming and I'm sure there is some fake packaging going on. But if someone was counter fitting actual rare figures don't you think the market would be a bit more flooded. I would expect to see tons of drunken masters, SHA, dups of the mag 11. The fact that we don't see them tells me maybe the counter fitting has just been limited to the packaging.

[Foxman]

I totally feel where you guys are coming and I'm sure there is some fake packaging going on. But if someone was counter fitting actual rare figures don't you think the market would be a bit more flooded. I would expect to see tons of drunken masters, SHA, dups of the mag 11. The fact that we don't see them tells me maybe the counter fitting has just been limited to the packaging.

Makes ya' wonder at any rate...

I guess it all comes down to what the scam artists have access too at this point...

Most of the SR's are pretty unobtainable. Like the mag 11, The guy who holds them has too much of a soul and is too much of a M.U.S.C.L.E. nut to mess around with those. Most all of the people holding the other ones are the same way. Now as with the SHA's & the BHS's... it seems possible that one could fall into the wrong hands. And the colored claws... You KNOW there's a few booties of those hanging out in the wind... especially the purple one. It wouldn't surprise me at all to start seeing more & more rare class A's in certain colors popping up out of nowhere too.

You know that anyone who was smart enough to figure out the million dollar PVC combo AND be dumb enough to rip everyone off... would NEVER tell. And if they did put their evil genius to work, they'd probably be smart enough to keep a lid on it and just let a few trickle out here & there. It would likely take years for anyone to catch on... if ever.

[imperfecz]

You don't need a SR to mold/cast it............. they were all made in Kinkeshi.

[Foxman]

You don't need a SR to mold/cast it............. they were all made in Kinkeshi.

Aren't Kinkeshi slight larger & a little less detailed though?

[imperfecz]

Same mold...... different rubber...... so other than wear that occurs over time & material, no they are exactly the same.

[Foxman]

I understand talking about reseals and recreating 4-packs can make me sound like Giorgio A. Tsoukalos (the guy above, I had to Google his name – and now we've both learned something new today!).

However, the MUSCLE community is the perfect type to scam and it has happened plenty of times. The community has some big ticket items, flies relatively under the radar, and doesn't have the extensive expertise and understanding of things like Star Wars, GI Joe, etc.. If you're looking to scam, then it doesn't get much better than this.

So the SC 4-packs are probably real. The odds are certainly in their favor. But it doesn't mean that there aren't some "fake" 4-packs floating around. We have to recognize that while we love the hobby, there are people that love money more.

Take the pomegranate soap. To us that's a way to take away smoke smell or amp up the MUSCLE smell. To a bootlegger that could be a way to help pass off a custom figure as real.

MUSCLE toys are insanely simple. I have a quote from a place to find out the exact chemical make-up of MUSCLE plastic – everything! The smell, the texture, everything. Once I had that I could make exact replicas. You would never be able to tell the difference. So if that can be done, copying a plastic shell is child's play.

I may be thought of as negative or cynical, and maybe I am with MUSCLE toys, but that approach has always helped me to further understand MUSCLE too.

So it's not a matter of if... but when... for ALL of it then...

[imperfecz]

It's cool though........ Matlock joined yesterday so this should all be solved soon.

[jkaris]

In regards to making indistinguishable copies of the figures themselves, unless you have the original molds, it's not going to happen.

Even if you were able to make an injectible mold of a figure, once you shot the material into the mold and allowed it to cool, the end result would be a smaller figure. This is precisely why Exogini and the 29th anniversary re-release keshi are all smaller. Their molds were recreated using the original figures and not from the master figures.

And there is absolutely no way to get the same material via a RTV process.

You could definitely make figures that are really close, but on comparing it to a legit M.U.S.C.L.E., it would be very apparent that it was a bootleg.

[imperfecz]

Shoot him a PM, I'm sure he'll help. And yeah I wouldn't buy that crap..... the guy that makes that garbage is a real ass.

[walker13.1]

Makes ya' wonder at any rate...

The guy who holds them has too much of a soul and is too much of a M.U.S.C.L.E. nut to mess around with those. Most all of the people holding the other ones are the same way. Now as with the SHA's & the BHS's... it seems possible that one could fall into the wrong hands. And the colored claws... You KNOW there's a few booties of those hanging out in the wind... especially the purple one. It wouldn't surprise me at all to start seeing more & more rare class A's in certain colors popping up out of nowhere too.

You know that anyone who was smart enough to figure out the million dollar PVC combo AND be dumb enough to rip everyone off... would NEVER tell. And if they did put their evil genius to work, they'd probably be smart enough to keep a lid on it and just let a few trickle out here & there. It would likely take years for anyone to catch on... if ever.

I'm confused with what I bolded in your response. What do you mean? The magnificant 11 are spread throughout the community. Jkaris sold them off quite a long time ago, and they have exchanged hands since then.

With the fakes I've seen they always seem much less flexible than the real ones. They have more of a rock feeling than rubbery. There was one douche a while ago who was trying to pass off a Magenta Claw as real, and of course this sight hammered the Ebay seller for that. I think he was even forced through Ebay to change the description.

[TMAN]

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1438.l2649
These are a good example, at least he admits they are reproductions. The seller has been working with a factory for 4 months. They are supposed to be identical to the authentic muscles in every way.

Edited by TMAN, 14 December 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[jkaris]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330844276035?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
These are a good example, at least he admits they are reproductions. The seller has been working with a factory for 4 months. They are supposed to be identical to the authentic muscles in every way.

It'd be interesting to see how close they are to the originals in texture. I bet this is the same factory making the BB/LB repros.

[Foxman]

I'm confused with what I bolded in your response. What do you mean? The magnificant 11 are spread throughout the community. Jkaris sold them off quite a long time ago, and they have exchanged hands since then.

With the fakes I've seen they always seem much less flexible than the real ones. They have more of a rock feeling than rubbery. There was one douche a while ago who was trying to pass off a Magenta Claw as real, and of course this sight hammered the Ebay seller for that. I think he was even forced through Ebay to change the description.

The original thread & articles I read about it, didn't have any info about him selling them. My bad. I assumed he still had them. I was wrong.

But that's why I ask a lot of stupid questions that most people already know the answers too, even if they piss some people off. Sometimes it helps me get to the bottom of what's real and what's candy coating. Case in point. This thread.

The way I see it, If someone learns something they didn't know before, and it keeps them from getting burned... then I'm GLAD I pissed people off. If it helps confirm that something is more legit than you thought it was before, even better.

If someone REALLY wants to cash in on M.U.S.C.L.E.s, they should write a book about this crap. Seriously.

Idiots guide to M.U.S.C.L.E. Collecting... I know I would buy one.

[jkaris]

The way I see it, If someone learns something they didn't know before, and it keeps them from getting burned... then I'm GLAD I pissed people off. If it helps confirm that something is more legit than you thought it was before, even better.

I think I missed something. Who was pissed?

[walker13.1]

The original thread & articles I read about it, didn't have any info about him selling them. My bad. I assumed he still had them. I was wrong.

But that's why I ask a lot of stupid questions that most people already know the answers too, even if they piss some people off. Sometimes it helps me get to the bottom of what's real and what's candy coating. Case in point. This thread.

The way I see it, If someone learns something they didn't know before, and it keeps them from getting burned... then I'm GLAD I pissed people off. If it helps confirm that something is more legit than you thought it was before, even better.

If someone REALLY wants to cash in on M.U.S.C.L.E.s, they should write a book about this crap. Seriously.

Idiots guide to M.U.S.C.L.E. Collecting... I know I would buy one.

It wasn't a stupid question/statement. I didn't mean to come off saying it was. Here is a link that Jkaris keeps tabs on.

http://www.littlerubberguys.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2420

[Foxman]

I think I missed something. Who was pissed?

Not pissed, maybe the adjective I was looking for was "annoyed" or "irritated".

[SmokinGun]

It'd be interesting to see how close they are to the originals in texture. I bet this is the same factory making the BB/LB repros.

Just seeing the pic. Those claws clearly shows imperfection. There more glossier. Almosted like they been dip in paint. I wonder if they have the Y/SNT Trademark?

Nice little set if anyone is a fan of bootlegs.

[TMAN]

1355542472[/url]' post='469462']
Just seeing the pic. Those claws clearly shows imperfection. There more glossier. Almosted like they been dip in paint. I wonder if they have the Y/SNT Trademark?

Nice little set if anyone is a fan of bootlegs.

The salmon has a smudge or mark on it.

[jason76basin]

this just in, my ebay friend i was referring to early on in this post is on the site here now

[ironmask]

Name?

[imperfecz]

Walbito55

[ironmask]

Hm. I wonder what that is about?

[imperfecz]

The plot sickens.......