It turns out I´ve not been the only one contacting GMB so I´m not sure how others have approached him via private messages but I can only speak for myself and I´ve contacted him in a fair way explaining my concerns as I´ve done here and open for discussion. But it looks like a lot of people don´t really care....
A GMB mark on the foot is an interesting idea. Though more work for them, would certainly go a distance to pacify original idealists collectors such as Beastformers. At the end of the day, in 10 years if a GMB clear carp is in an auction without clarification as a repro, there isn't really much you can do besides hope that the buyer asks questions or that the seller notices the very distinct difference in texture, flexibility, and weight. I mean, in hand, there is simply no way to not discern the resin immediately. Should we also be hating on TGB for his LB molds?
A mark on the foot or any kind of mark would be a simple and easy to make adjustment that´d solve the problem straight away and it´d also take away the risk for future buyers even in 10 years because a visible and odd mark like that should say enough. As mentioned earlier the difference in material, flexibility and weight is not something you can judge a picture on so that wouldn´t be a fair way to go imho. Having the figure in hand before purchasing it is in most cases not a very realistic option.
I don´t really get it why people always try to point out others like TGB in a discussion where the question and concern is clear and it has nothing to do with worrying about the TGB molds..... Let me be clear I don´t think there´ve been many custom BB folks out here that were so well informed about the line as TGB himself and that has resulted in quite a few unique and at this point even famous creations because without his insight vision and knowledge about the line the Godbeasts would´ve probably forever remained a simple sketch that was found in the Japanese LB book. I don´t care in whatever color LB are casted for reproduction because these, unlike the BB, where never released in Greek Colors, Gumball, Clear or Stone versions so that is not a point of concern!
Personally, if you're out there willing to drop hundreds of bucks on toys, you should be smart enough to research what it is you're buying and an estimation of it's value. If you find a $300 figure listed properly for $100, chances are something is up. (That old saying, "if it's too good to be true, it just might be" comes to mind.)
Lots of folks around here have problems with bootlegs and repros, but I could honestly care less. Takara doesn't care about the franchise any longer, (as evidenced by Beast Saga), and the minimates figures are akin to garbage anyways. So there's no real impact on them making an official comeback. (Which puts that theory to bed anyways, as TGB did tons of repros/customs and there was still two comebacks.)
Is it a matter of being smart enough to check your items before you buy them or does this have something to do with the credibility of the line which might raise your suspicion? Because you can either come from both sides with this its either the whole line is f#cked up way which means you´ve to be suspicious with every purchase you make which imho ain´t doing good to any line or the way in which the line is still good to go with because collectors have been stepping up in order to protect it against reproductions and counterfeits meaning you don´t have to worry a lot about the risk of getting burned. To me it would sound very obvious we´d always have to go for this because when suspicion or credibility become the new guidelines for buying and trading figs it´ll have a serious impact on the atmosphere out here as well sooner or later.
That the official rights have been expired and that Takara nor Hasbro is stepping up doesn´t mean we as collectors who love this line should let it go as well.....
I can see both sides of the issue. maybe a small brand of some sort put into one of the feet (use a small hot iron brand, sand down the foot of any residue) takes a slight bit of time but a good idea, hard to hide. i don't think any modern repros will hurt the line; my only concern would be on the Greek BB front, but they have a unique shiny plastic look to them (from the few i have seen on the net). Mainly people looking to buy high end stuff need to do their research, know their stuff.
also i like the ideas of repros out there for people to do/make customs with
Amongst the GBB there are quite few varieties in colors and even materials as well so that´s why reproductions can do a lot of damage to this line in particular because some reproductions actually come pretty close to the GBB colors. Of course in hand you can easily tell the difference but than its to late in most cases......
People who´re buying high end stuff need to do their research!?
So we´ve to start creating a guidebook for GBB, Clear Carps and Stone Cobra with tips and guides to help you verify you´ve a legit figure, really!?
I´ve always learned its better to prevent something than to solve it and that´s the point we´re at at the moment are we really letting this happen meaning sooner or later someone will get burned and people have to start working on identification guidelines in order to see if the item is original.
Just recently I was in touch with a relatively new fellow collector who mentioned having bought a LB Shields which he thought to be original but which turned out to be a reproduction because it was shown on the back of the Shields. So who´s wrong here was it the buyer you should´ve been so well informed that he should´ve asked for it being a reproduction because of the price or was it the seller because he obviously didn´t mention it being a reproduction.............. It was noted because of the simple marking so even though someone was burned it did end up in the hands of a collector so the chances of someone getting burned again is most likely taken away because of the marking on the Shield and the fact I´m pretty sure that if it ever gets sold again it will definitely be mentioned as being a repro.
"You can't tell anymore whether you're buying an original GBB or a counterfeit reproduction"
This cracked me up.
Soon you will not be able to tell who made the counterfeit figure you are buying!
Why don't you go ahead and "preserve the history of the original line", and quit worrying so much about the future.
If you really want to encourage more new collectors, why don't you spend all that typespace on trying to get people to quit asking such high prices for their extra figs.
If people like you don´t give a sh#t about the history of a line and only address value to and care about the actual physical figures just go ahead and have fun with that but don´t come up with lines like that showing disrespect to the effort we´re putting into the background stories as well because some people DO appreciate it when they´re able to find some solid info about the history of a line!
History can´t be rewritten but it can be made undone or get polluted in case people start messing around with reproductions and counterfeits in the future so I do worry about that.
I don´t get it why people always tend to think prices are to high as if that´s something that can be created!? These figures are 30 years old by next year so it ain´t to strange that, as with most vintage items, prices are most likely not going down. If you look back into old posts and discussions of 10 years or so ago you´ll look at the prices they asked back than with tears in your eyes because it were only fractions of the amounts we´re paying for our figs today. It is not only the rare items that go up in price but also the normal BB which should be more than plentiful available if you´d ask me so maybe this might´ve something to do with the way the market works and that time is not really ticking in the advantage of the buyer because over time prices for vintage figures like these did, are and will always go up. That´s something we all have to live with whether we like it or not and I´m just as much a collector as everyone else out here so we´re all paying these prices.
You only see folks quoting high prices when they're doing the selling. When people are trying to buy, figures are of course next to worthless.
Saw some chump the other day on the facebook group called "Battle Beasts" trying to swindle some dude's figures, including series 3, for next to nothing. (I called him out on it.)
Well don´t worry because the moment the market gets flooded with reproductions and counterfeits it´ll be a matter of time before also the selling prices will be next to nothing
We´ve seen the impact of the repro Shields on the original ones because before prices of $300+ were paid for those but after the reproductions hit the market the prices dropped to almost $100-$150. There´s a lot of people out hunting on Beasts in the hope to get them for a bargain and in some cases to make a few bucks out of it but what more can you do than to call out on them, it´s the sellers decision whether or not he´ll sell them for a set price. Not everyone out there cares about the Beasts as we do and thus some of them have no clue about the value collectors like us are willing to pay so in most cases the prices people get are not in line with the prices we pay. Who´s to blame for that because in the end we all hope to find that one bargain but when it comes to prices it ain´t fair buying them at an amount that´s not in line with the market value!? All of this is a lot more complicated than it looks. People buy big lots on Ebay getting figs at $3 each or so and they sell them one by one for $10 or more these days, that´s just how it works.... The only thing you can do about that is to inform people to buy bigger lots so that they can get Beasts for a better average price than buying them one by one but that´s nothing new.
The history of the original line will always be there, reproductions usually make originals more desirable (look at the exact copy G1 transformers from china, or the transformers masterpiece KO's - some people even say the reproductions fix the QC issues the originals from takara have!!).
The fact is there are not that many battle beast collectors around and keeping people interested with customs or exact replicas of high end beasts is a win in my book.
I'm waiting for an reproduction stone cobra to come out, its just a matter of time IMO.
Well I´ve heard also less positive stories about reproductions being out there in the TF line and there´s quite a few lines that´re actually killed because of the market was flushed with reproductions and people became suspicious because they could no longer identify real from fakes anymore. As long as there are no exact reproductions without markings made the originals are strong enough to withstand these influences and in that case I do agree with you that customs can and do gain extra interest in the line so that´s indeed a win but only if the creator of those customs or reproductions is willing to show some respect for the originals as well so that both can coexist without harming one another by simply adding a makers mark to the exact replica´s.......
I´d be interested to hear what´d be the value for you to have a Stone Cobra reproduction figure!?
Is it because you think the design is so wicked and awesome that you want one but the originals are just to expensive or is it because it is the most rare Beast out there and that makes it so desirable? In other words the History of the line does matter because that´s learned how and why the Stone Cobra is as desirable as it is but this is something we´d never had known if some Chinese factory would´ve started producing exact replicas during the early 90´s because no one out here would´ve been able to tell that in that case and we´d have always believed that the Stone Cobra would´ve been an easy to obtain figure because there are so many out there and it costs only $10....... That´s exactly how things will go if we let down our guards and stop protecting the original line because than in 5 years from now none would ever understand the collectors value of a Clear Carp, Stone Cobra or whatever figure because there´s so many that everyone has one. For collectors who really care about the original figs and the line this is like a stab in the back because we´ve saved funds in order to purchase that one holy grail figure for our collection because WE did care about the history and we DO care about the original figures. It is ok if some people are not willing or able to pay such amounts for original figures so for those the reproductions are a good outcome but that doesn´t mean they should take away the holy grail feeling of the other collectors by trying to make exact replica´s for only a fraction of the price without any marks. All that´s really done in those cases is showing a huge disrespect to the original line and you envy those who´ve really cared and worked hard for their holy grail pieces.
In terms of the stone cobra, get a regular cobra and get a guy like Ersico to customize it. I've seen his work and it's great. Clearly not an original when you see an original vs. a painted one, but wow is he amazing at his custom work. I have seen a couple of his stone cobras first hand.
And I have stared at that mammoth for weeks now, glad to see he's being released on ebay. If I had some money to throw around right now, that mammoth with ersico's custom work would be a highlight in my collection. My boys would love it. I do wish these were rubber instead of resin, but maybe in time....
Great job, looking forward to the new additions
The repaint is a good option but I think that´s way to much in order to get a Stone Cobra because you´d have to buy an original Series 3 Cobra which are around $15 these days and than you´ve to pay an artist for their work which ads another $30 or so to the total and that together with the shipping easily ads up to $50 so why do so much effort when people are making exact reproductions for only $15!? In other words some people don´t really give a sh#t about the Stone Cobra and they´re not even wiling to come up with original or custom ideas for it because all they really want is to get one for as low as possible.....
I think that if this is the direction the BB community is going with accepting and even supporting Reproductions without any markings abnegating the original line its time to think over what I´m actually doing out here because that means the History of the line is practically worthless to you as well and that means I´m no longer respected and needed out here either because all of that will be undone in a couple of years anyway. So maybe its better to become less active out here, and like many of the other collectors that do appreciate the original line, keep quiet.....