Jump to content

Theme© by Fisana
 

Photo
* * * * * 4 votes

Let's have a little come-to-Jesus...


  • Please log in to reply
142 replies to this topic

#76 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

As a member of the unsocial/ethical crowd, my question for the discussion is:

Does any body else play with these things? I take a different muscle with me to work everyday, and there is no way I could survive clothes shopping with my wife, without taking Super Phoenix along.
My ultimate dream in life is to have enough muscle things so I can swim in them like Uncle Scrooge's money bin.

I hope I don't sound like too much of a weirdo, but perhaps it gives me a different perspective. I love reading all the drama and infighting. I am endlessly fascinated that there are other people in the world who care about these silly toys as much as I do. And I am not that bothered by the price gouging because I will just continue to buy the dirty, and disfigured muscles that everyone else considers worthless.


I have five in my pocket, right now. I have about twelve of my favorite sculpts that I have in rotation, and I am right there with you... toys are to be played with!
Super Pheonix #113, IS one of those figures. Warsman #59, Atlantis #161, Neptuneman #71... those are my bread and butter for impromptu rush-hour wrestling matches.

Thanks for speaking up!
  • 0





#77 89cpe

89cpe

    sweep the leg

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1510 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:pennsylvania

Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:13 PM

Did anyone see that I won the last sha sr for $600??? That was awesomeeeee!!!!!

And bill idk about your bidding one way or the other but you have been nothing but generous in our dealings and I still love the fact that you semt me that red class a tileman for free!
  • 0

#78 jmckinnon316

jmckinnon316

    Serious Collector

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 769 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Highland, UK

Posted 02 March 2013 - 04:23 AM

As a member of the unsocial/ethical crowd, my question for the discussion is:

Does any body else play with these things? I take a different muscle with me to work everyday, and there is no way I could survive clothes shopping with my wife, without taking Super Phoenix along.
My ultimate dream in life is to have enough muscle things so I can swim in them like Uncle Scrooge's money bin.

I hope I don't sound like too much of a weirdo, but perhaps it gives me a different perspective. I love reading all the drama and infighting. I am endlessly fascinated that there are other people in the world who care about these silly toys as much as I do. And I am not that bothered by the price gouging because I will just continue to buy the dirty, and disfigured muscles that everyone else considers worthless.



Lol! Tex and Cubik (155 and 24) are ever-present on my work desk. Any time things get a bit rough, I take them down and have a little match with them!! They're toys! Why the hell not!!??

:)
  • 1
My NEEDS List: HERE
My Collection: WORKING ON IT!

#79 Screamer

Screamer

    Ping Pong Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 619 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Emerald City, WA
  • Interests:MUSCLE #136, TMNT Sidekicks, GB Companion Ghosts

Posted 02 March 2013 - 05:27 AM

As a member of the unsocial/ethical crowd, my question for the discussion is:

Does any body else play with these things? I take a different muscle with me to work everyday, and there is no way I could survive clothes shopping with my wife, without taking Super Phoenix along.
My ultimate dream in life is to have enough muscle things so I can swim in them like Uncle Scrooge's money bin.

I hope I don't sound like too much of a weirdo, but perhaps it gives me a different perspective. I love reading all the drama and infighting. I am endlessly fascinated that there are other people in the world who care about these silly toys as much as I do. And I am not that bothered by the price gouging because I will just continue to buy the dirty, and disfigured muscles that everyone else considers worthless.


Out of the posts in this thread I think I can relate the most to this my friend. And from what I have heard/seen I think that is a really good thing. I am too new to the board to get engulfed in the what was', should bes and the inner workings of the community behind the scenes. Some folk are worked up and I am sure that they have every reason to be to an extent. There is obviously some shady behavior going on but thats just kind of life in a nut shell, isn't it? There is always going to be people out there that are going to try and knock you down, take what you feel is yours and in general totally screw up a good thing at the costs of others for their own personal gain. Do we speak up against in accordance to salvage the community? I say absolutely... But we still choose how we let this effect us. How we feel about the subject that is in question and ultimately how we treat eachother. When I encounter people like this in everyday life I find solace in knowing how sad and pathetic they really are, whether they know it or not. Everything comes full circle. It always does. I just hope for their sake that when it does they will have the intelligence to recognize it, learn from it and become a better person.

As in response to this post I would like to say thank you. This lightened my spirits. I thought I might have been the only wacko out there toting my lil dudes around :teehee: I generally just carry one with me at a time and its the same figure (hes pictured below). Every once in a while, when I am feeling a bit cheeky, I will take a couple of my dupes to school and sneek them in a friends bag or backpack. I love messing with people in this harmless manner. I get a kick out of thinking of them discovering him wondering, "what the hell is this and how in the world did it get in my bag." Like the crazy little guy must have got up and crawled in there or something. Haha. I made a drop today and it just cracks me up thinking about it. Fridays are the best so they have the whole weekend to ponder it and share it with their family and friends. Im just waiting for the day I get caught up though. I will either have to play it off and risk being seen as a weirdo rifling through someones stuff or my little secret will be revealed. Im not sure which direction it will go. Only time will tell. Like most things.

Attached File  002.JPG   2.71MB   39 downloads

This is my friend and as you can see he has had a rough life. I have had him for 20+ years and is one of my three surviving Muscles from my childhood... Hes still has got a long way to go. Not even a purple claw could take him from me :p
  • 3

#80 walker13.1

walker13.1

    .

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4950 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 March 2013 - 05:59 AM

Bill, dude... I don't recall anybody (at least in this thread) calling you out. I don't agree with you, but that doesn't mean that you are under attack. I sent you a personal message trying to clarify that. I don't recall ever accusing you of price gouging... All I said, was that I do not see a difference between forcibly winning auctions for pieces you already have, whether it's for driving up prices or for "trading ammunition". I didn't mean for that to come of as an ad hominem attack on you, though. Relax.

As for the DM, the Mag 11, and those figures... Clearly, when you have a figure that that fits in a range from 1:1-1:10, you're going to have substantiated higher pricing... those are actual rare pieces. Nobody is trying to dispute that. We are talking about figures that are known to be out there in quantities of hundreds or even thousands, going for DM, Bonbe, or Mag 11 prices. That is crazy. OF COURSE a 1:1 or 1:2 figure is going to command a premium... The madness comes when a 1:1000 figure goes for the same price. Go back and look at the initial purple claw craze, and you will see how databases and misinformation cause the purple claw's value to be artificially inflated.

And for the "How am I going to achieve this change"? I'M not. WE are. It's even more clear to me now, that this change is something that a majority of active members are interested in... starting off, we'll have ideas, some will be good, some won't be so good. It will take a little bit of trial and error, but that is better than doing nothing. I don't think that anybody is interested in a witch hunt... we just want our hobby back.


I bought class a figures and the SC 4 packs for exactly that. I figured over time they might be the items that cause someone to bite on a purple claw or something else that was cool. And that method worked, it got me my Holy Grail. I didn't price gouge, shill, ....., nope, I bought, put in a chest for future use, and it paid off in trade. What the board thinks of that method means little to me. Trust me, the person who traded with me isn't complaining one single bit. I know there are people on this board with much better search methods than I have, so I thought outside the box to get one of them to trade.

1:1, 1:1000, who really cares as long as you're paying what you and only you are comfortable with? To me that is the end of it. Don't expect to pay a certain amount for a 1:1 or 1:1000 based on the "back in the day" or what you feel it should go for. If it goes for more, don't come on this board and start attacking the winner. That seems to be par for the course here.

Enjoy your hobby, by focusing on you and only you. Don't focus on what others have. Buy for the pure enjoyment and memories the toy brings back to you. Don't get torn up because someone outbids you. If the board agrees that a member's shill bid has been identified, is buying things up for pure monetary gain, or getting a seller to end an auction early should be dealt with by the board. Maybe some kind of evidence gathering, bringing it out to the open or letting Jkaris and other mods decide, and then banning the person if deemed necessary. That might influence someone to think twice.

Edited by vette88, 02 March 2013 - 06:08 AM.

  • 0

#81 glass67

glass67

    Serious Collector

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 416 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pacific Northwest
  • Interests:M.U.S.C.L.E., Battle Beasts, Beast Saga, Smashing Pumpkins, The Cure, Pink Floyd, the Pacific Ocean, the 80's!

Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:42 AM

I've read and re-read this thread a few times. I have given it quite a bit of thought, and I've had several ideas for a long-winded post regarding the topic. But several members have already said what needs to be said. I just want to say that I'm happy to see so many muscle collectors that have nothing but love for the line and the hobby. I've already mentioned how the shady dealings of others has affected my feelings about muscles from time to time; "taking the magic away" is how I believe I put it.
This thread has brought the magic back, and for that I thank all of you that have contributed to that. Excellent and thoughtful posts, guys!

And I'm glad to see the Super Phoenix love from some of you. I used to carry him around with me for good luck! Definitely one of my favorites for sure. :yes:
  • 0

#82 iwao

iwao

    Toy Addict

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1481 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:47 AM

1:1, 1:1000, who really cares as long as you're paying what you and only you are comfortable with? To me that is the end of it. Don't expect to pay a certain amount for a 1:1 or 1:1000 based on the "back in the day" or what you feel it should go for. If it goes for more, don't come on this board and start attacking the winner. That seems to be par for the course here.

I don't think this discussion is all about complaining that MUSCLE prices have gone too high. It's the feeling that some people have latched onto MUSCLE collecting as an investment, and behaving in a way to protect their investment in figures they already own has hurt other collectors. There will always be people like that to battle on ebay, but I think it's understandable that a lot of people don't want to deal with them on LRG.

When I first joined here, it seemed the most drama was in Bad Eggz Bunch and MIMP collecting. Now it has shifted to MUSCLE, and we've witnessed that it takes very few people acting like clowns to create problems.

I'm probably alone in this, but I think the Sightings threads for MUSCLE auctions are part of the problem too. They can be fun to watch for someone like me that isn't interested in bidding, but they seem to be the biggest source for discussions that get junked here. The guys that butt heads on every class A ebay auction don't have to bring their fight here.
  • 1

#83 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

1:1, 1:1000, who really cares as long as you're paying what you and only you are comfortable with? To me that is the end of it. Don't expect to pay a certain amount for a 1:1 or 1:1000 based on the "back in the day" or what you feel it should go for. If it goes for more, don't come on this board and start attacking the winner. That seems to be par for the course here.


You can absolutely pay whatever you want for a toy... That doesn't mean that it's always smart, and being self-focused and myopic doesn't automatically disqualify that behavior from damaging the market. It's not just "winning auctions" that is effing up the community, either. It's WHY those auctions are being run up, and then the effect that has on Dick Average's pricing when he decides that he's going to become one of Chad's a$$holes of the week by cashing in his ill-researched collection. But, whatever. Some people view collecting as a competition... "winners"... I do not. The majority do not. I find that shit to be silly.

I don't think this discussion is all about complaining that MUSCLE prices have gone too high. It's the feeling that some people have latched onto MUSCLE collecting as an investment, and behaving in a way to protect their investment in figures they already own has hurt other collectors. There will always be people like that to battle on ebay, but I think it's understandable that a lot of people don't want to deal with them on LRG.

When I first joined here, it seemed the most drama was in Bad Eggz Bunch and MIMP collecting. Now it has shifted to MUSCLE, and we've witnessed that it takes very few people acting like clowns to create problems.

I'm probably alone in this, but I think the Sightings threads for MUSCLE auctions are part of the problem too. They can be fun to watch for someone like me that isn't interested in bidding, but they seem to be the biggest source for discussions that get junked here. The guys that butt heads on every class A ebay auction don't have to bring their fight here.


I highlighted the parts I like the best.
I don't know what more I can say about that aspect of collecting... I think we may have to agree to disagree on some of this.
I do enjoy that people have taken a part of the discussion, and have even offered anecdotes that detail their love for collecting. Those are the guys that I like to deal with, and those are the kinds of people that I looked up to when I first discovered the AKIA/LRG.
  • 1

#84 TMAN

TMAN

    M.U.S.C.L.E. HUNTER

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1148 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cali USA
  • Interests:Anything M.U.S.C.L.E. TMNT. NKE 6.0 Mutants. Customs!

Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:44 PM

Lol! Tex and Cubik (155 and 24) are ever-present on my work desk. Any time things get a bit rough, I take them down and have a little match with them!! They're toys! Why the hell not!!??

:)

This little guy is always with me....

Posted Image
  • 1
th_fdfc5f0f35daf26c472dce86f63f9f9e.jpg

#85 Merovingian

Merovingian

    Serious Collector

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma
  • Interests:M.U.S.C.L.E. & NKE 6.0 Mutants

Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

Haven't purchased a single MUSCLE figure in almost 3 years now... for this exact reason.

:confused:
  • 0
~ Merovingian ~
http://www.littlerubberguys.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30320&view=findpost&p=264442

#86 Toxoviper

Toxoviper

    Toy Addict

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1269 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 03 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

This thread inspired me to become a award winning writer.
  • 1

#87 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:03 AM

This thread inspired me to become a award winning writer.


Which one? ;)
  • 0

#88 walker13.1

walker13.1

    .

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4950 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:53 AM

You can absolutely pay whatever you want for a toy... That doesn't mean that it's always smart, and being self-focused and myopic doesn't automatically disqualify that behavior from damaging the market. It's not just "winning auctions" that is effing up the community, either. It's WHY those auctions are being run up, and then the effect that has on Dick Average's pricing when he decides that he's going to become one of Chad's a$$holes of the week by cashing in his ill-researched collection. But, whatever. Some people view collecting as a competition... "winners"... I do not. The majority do not. I find that shit to be silly.


I'll agree with the WHY. The SC 4 pack auction that got weird is nothing more than someone being greedy. If you're going after a trade chest, ok, fine, but I think it's quite clear that wasn't the intention. Especially when you already have two. That is just being dumb. If people don't want events like this to continue, I think it's quite simple. Don't buy/trade from these people. If it's obvious someone is just buying up class a figures for resale, don't give them a second of your time. Also, if the board comes to an agreement, ban them. I think it's kind of annoying when it's quite obvious that a member's only quality is to bump their Got Toys thread or his Need Gold and Silver thread.

Members who take away the chance of other members to bid on auctions by getting a seller to end an auction early should be dealt with the same way. Their douche bag level is equal to the people who only buy to resell.

Edited by walker13.1, 04 March 2013 - 05:54 AM.

  • 2

#89 Merovingian

Merovingian

    Serious Collector

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oklahoma
  • Interests:M.U.S.C.L.E. & NKE 6.0 Mutants

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:10 AM

I think it's kind of annoying when it's quite obvious that a member's only quality is to bump their Got Toys thread or his Need Gold and Silver thread.


Most people have that particular person on ignore and have for years. Trust me, only coming here to bump his selling threads and "I love gold!!" thread is a major improvement.

:closedeyes:
  • 2
~ Merovingian ~
http://www.littlerubberguys.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30320&view=findpost&p=264442

#90 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:18 AM

I mean, I still don't see the difference between buying something you don't want (or already have) to manipulate the value of the item, and buying something you don't want (or already have) to hold over somebody else's head for barter.

Maybe I am just a big dummy.
  • 0

#91 walker13.1

walker13.1

    .

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4950 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:37 AM

I mean, I still don't see the difference between buying something you don't want (or already have) to manipulate the value of the item, and buying something you don't want (or already have) to hold over somebody else's head for barter.

Maybe I am just a big dummy.


Did I or didn't I end an auction early? No

Did I or didn't I do it for a huge profit? No

Did I or didn't I hang it over someone's head for barter? No


If you want the specifics, please, by all means ask Clawfreak. I didn't go to him, nope, he came to me. But by all means if you don't want to believe me ask him. Also, trust me when I say this, he got ONE HECK of a deal. I know how much he got in trade, but I want you to do your research seeing you think I held the class a figures over his head for barter. Also, do some research with Veers on a class a figure he received from me, and ask him how much he DIDN'T pay. See post #76 of this thread and see how much 89cpe DIDN'T pay for a class a figure. Again, if you think that is still wrong, I can care not. Making sure Ironmask is happy will never be my goal in life. I bought the figures hoping someone with better search methods than myself would bite, and someone did. My outside the box idea worked, so sue me. I paid fair value for the figures. I didn't take anybodys' chance away from bidding, I defintely didn't make a profit, and I didn't shill bid. Believe me, I know for a fact Claw made out like a bandit, and I couldn't care less.

Also, have you asked SLTJ or Stoney about my dealings with them for the SC 4 packs??? Stoney came to me, and I held an open trade for the other one. Funny how the people who have traded with me have zero complaints, but someone who hasn't likes to act as a ref. I know what I paid and what they paid and traded for, but I want you to do the research seeing you want to call me out on this.

Edited by walker13.1, 04 March 2013 - 07:54 AM.

  • 0

#92 Guest_General Veers_*

Guest_General Veers_*
  • Guests

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:00 AM

Here's a thought that I've had for a long time that is semi-relevant here. From one perspective, there are 4 kinds of collectors. You could say there are: (1) Ethical-Social collectors, (2) Ethical-Unsocial collectors, (3) Unethical-Social Collectors, and (4) Unethical-Unsocial Collectors.


Bill, I think you're missing ironmask's point. But I also think the disconnect is a very helpful, illustrative example of the challenge using Soupie's model.

I believe ironmask is simply saying, "If you don't need an item for your collection, then just leave it alone." Very simple. I don't think he's saying you're a bad person - simply that he doesn't subscribe to that idea/practice.

To me, what is interesting is that most people would probably label you both as Ethical-Social collectors. However, even the two of you don't see eye to eye on what is "ethical." And other people would probably score each of you at different points within the Ethical-Social quadrant. (Although a formalized behavioral scoring guide could be created to properly identify and score various behaviors. :geek: )

My point is that even with two Ethical-Social working to make the hobby better, it will never be perfect. However, if we at least have people actively trying to make the hobby better, starting with themselves, then we will certainly see tangible improvements. :yes:
  • 2

#93 walker13.1

walker13.1

    .

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4950 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:04 AM

Bill, I think you're missing ironmask's point. But I also think the disconnect is a very helpful, illustrative example of the challenge using Soupie's model.

I believe ironmask is simply saying, "If you don't need an item for your collection, then just leave it alone." Very simple. I don't think he's saying you're a bad person - simply that he doesn't subscribe to that idea/practice.

To me, what is interesting is that most people would probably label you both as Ethical-Social collectors. However, even the two of you don't see eye to eye on what is "ethical." And other people would probably score each of you at different points within the Ethical-Social quadrant. (Although a formalized behavioral scoring guide could be created to properly identify and score various behaviors. :geek: )

My point is that even with two Ethical-Social working to make the hobby better, it will never be perfect. However, if we at least have people actively trying to make the hobby better, starting with themselves, then we will certainly see tangible improvements. :yes:


Completely agree.
  • 0

#94 iwao

iwao

    Toy Addict

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1481 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:04 AM

Opinions on buying for trade could be a separate discussion that goes on as long as this one. Just like the poll about ending ebay auctions early.

ironmask isn't attacking you. He has a different opinion on buying for trade than you do.
  • 2

#95 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

Yeah, Bill, I am purely talking about the practice. If you don't feel that you are doing that, then clearly I am not talking about you specifically.


And honestly, if you spent that much time being concerned with my happiness, I would probably be creeped out, haha
But yeah, though I disagree with the practice, that was never an ad hominem attack.
  • 0

#96 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:23 AM

Meanwhile, here is a chimp with a gun:
Posted Image
  • 3

#97 walker13.1

walker13.1

    .

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4950 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:57 AM

And honestly, if you spent that much time being concerned with my happiness, I would probably be creeped out, haha
But yeah, though I disagree with the practice, that was never an ad hominem attack.


You're my hero, so I strive to please you every day!!! :lol:
  • 0

#98 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:59 AM

You're my hero, so I strive to please you every day!!! :lol:


DAMN IT BILL

  • 0

#99 walker13.1

walker13.1

    .

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4950 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:06 AM

DAMN IT BILL


Sorry, I didn't have anything as cool like a chimp with a gun.
  • 0

#100 ironmask

ironmask

    LRG Lifer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10723 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:07 AM

Sorry, I didn't have anything as cool like a chimp with a gun.




Truth be told, I stole it from google.
  • 0






Copyright © 2024 LittleRubberGuys.com