20 replies to this topic

[Soupie]

I had a thought about the MUSCLE ring figures. Someone may have already mentioned this before and/or I may be totally wrong.

Anyhow, I've always wondered why the ring figures had to be new, unique sculpts, and my guess is that it was because the ring was produced separately. (I tried to find a post Veers made recently where he says which company made the ring and figures...)

Anyhow, this might tell us that the molds were fixed, and that in order to produce just two figures at a time, Bandai/Mattel were forced to create to new molds -- even one that was nearly identical to one they already had!

Edited by Soupie, 06 March 2008 - 02:14 PM.

[musclemenkids]

So what is the deal with the Buffaloman sculpt from the ring? Was the same sculpt ever used in the Japanese line or is he totally unique becuase come to think of it i have never seen a kinkeshi version of him. What sort of process is required for actually making a mold. It sure would be cool if we alll designed our own muscle style figures and then Marty somehow magic'd up molds to make them, just like how the original line was designed in part by the fans.

Anyway back to reality, there was apost earlier today i was reading about who owns the copyright and it was saying something about the copyright for the ring was separate from the figure line so i guess they had to use new sculpts in order to prevent any copyright infingements, i dunno.

[arforbes]

The Wrestling Rig figures are completely different sculpts and were never made as Kinkeshi even before the Muscle line was created. They were also never made into Kinkeshi afterwards, they never needed to be. And this is why I think this is...

Here's my theory...

Mattel decides to make a Muscle Wrestling Ring Set after the first run of figures, the fleshies, are made. In order to make to adequately "usable" figures for the ring, and at the same time keep the theme of Muscleman VS. Terribull in the picture, they had to mold two new figures...

Soupie I think you are right about the "not being able to produce only 2 figures at a time" theory. They had to make a NEW tree, with only these 2 figures otherwise they would be producing a whole run of additional and unnecessary figures.

Now, why the new Terribull then, and why not just take the #141 mold instead of making a new one? This is what I think gives strength to Soupie's theory. The #141 sculpt was a perfect fit for the purpose of the ring. Arms up in fighting position. And it potrayed Muscleman perfectly in addition. To explain the new Terribull mold...All the existing Terribull figures all had their arms down, well all except for #105, which had his arms like at the halfway point between up and down, actually a bit too low. They had to remake the Terribull figure with his arms at the same height as Muscleman's to be a worthy opponent for Muscleman #141 (The new mold now being #234).

So to make only these two new figures, they had to remold an almost exact #141, but because all molds are fixed molds, into a tree with the new Terribull #235 mold it went. Quite possibly they just molded Muscleman #234's features from an existing #141, which may explain the shrinkage? Not likely, since the belt and other aspects are also different, but possible. Probably just ease of making another figure by virtually copying the #141 sculpt and quickly coming up with 2 great fighting figure opponents to be included only with the ring!

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

I think I covered alot of the possibilities back when I was trying to crack the mystery of Green #2.


Remember my never ending rant on Production efficiency? Can't really remember.

[musclemenkids]

i really like the ring Buffaloman, he is pretty cool, you ever notice though his Bingo Wings?

[Soupie]

So to make only these two new figures, they had to remold an almost exact #141, but because all molds are fixed molds, into a tree with the new Terribull #235 mold it went. Quite possibly they just molded Muscleman #234's features from an existing #141, which may explain the shrinkage? Not likely, since the belt and other aspects are also different, but possible. Probably just ease of making another figure by virtually copying the #141 sculpt and quickly coming up with 2 great fighting figure opponents to be included only with the ring!

Yep, this is exactly what I was thinking. Too bad they didn't decided to cast these two figures in a new color, like yellow or something. (It is interesting that the Buffalo ring figure was cast in Green though.) But, yeah, I think this really supports the "fixed" mold theory.

[musclemenkids]

it always seemed weird that the picture on the front of the mega match game shows a green #2 yet it's the non poster figure you get,what the heck is up with that?

[Soupie]

it always seemed weird that the picture on the front of the mega match game shows a green #2 yet it's the non poster figure you get,what the heck is up with that?

If you look at pictures on the MUSCLE ring box, it's the same thing. The Buffalo man with lowered arms is featured. (Pic @ Nathan's MUSCLE Page!)

Which is weird, and stupid, that if Mattel/Bandai were going to all that trouble to make a brand new, unique Buffalo man sculpt, why not market it? (Maybe it was a sculpt Bandai just never got around to releasing themselves?)

Veers, the MUSCLE ring is an exact copy of a Kin ring made by Bandai, save for the "prongs" the figures are placed into.

[Tortle]

The MUSCLE ring seems to be a combination of two Kinnikuman rings: the Pro-Wrestling Game, which seems to be the source of the MUSCLE ring's "body", and the Battle Game, which has the same joysticks and figure clamps as those of the MUSCLE ring.

[TheOrgg]

The two figures came separate in a mint condition ring, right?

Why not make two new molds, one for each figure, and have sixteen of the same figure in the rows? That'd explain the Board Game Buffaloman.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Here's my old topic that I found on #234, #235, and #2. You guys can rummage through it if you want. I read part of the first post, just to make sure it was the one I was talking about.

http://www.littlerub...d...&hl=mystery


.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Crap...That was almost exactly 2 years ago.

[Soupie]

Here's my old topic that I found on #234, #235, and #2.

Yeah, I remember that post. I agree with the gist of it -- but I'm not sure "production efficiency" was the only factor. Spending the money to create two new molds was a big decision, I'm sure. And recall that the ring seems to have been produced in Mexico. That could also be why two new molds were created. Maybe Bandai/Mattel didn't feel comfortable sending a family mold worth millions of dollars overseas.

Also, I'm curious which came first, the board game or the ring? I'm sure someone knows right off the top of their head. Like I said in that thread, if the board game (and the Grape figures) came out before the colored figure wave(s), why not use Grape as a regular color -- as they did with Green?

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Yeah, I remember that post. I agree with the gist of it -- but I'm not sure "production efficiency" was the only factor. Spending the money to create two new molds was a big decision, I'm sure. And recall that the ring seems to have been produced in Mexico. That could also be why two new molds were created. Maybe Bandai/Mattel didn't feel comfortable sending a family mold worth millions of dollars overseas.

Well, what factory isn't going to try to produce a product in the most efficient way? That was two years ago anyways, I don't think my point of posting the link was to originally push my "PE" hypothesis, but to show that alot of conversation similar to this topic has already been discussed, and try to get more new input from everyone, instead of starting over.


But again, if the Ring was made in Mexico, then they surely packaged it in Mexico, which means that the Ring figure molds Might have been sent to or made in Mexico also. In fact this may have been the cheapest way Bandai/Mattel could pull this off, by outsourcing to Mexico for the ring and figures. Maybe the Board Game was made in Mexico too? Anyways Efficiency will always be a major factor in producing things like toys, so I don't have any doubt about my original argument. Remember Bandai/Mattel doesn't care about what toys they are making....they just want to make them cheap, and fast enough to make a profit without too much expenditure.

[Soupie]

That was two years ago anyways, I don't think my point of posting the link was to originally push my "PE" hypothesis, but to show that alot of conversation similar to this topic has already been discussed, and try to get more new input from everyone, instead of starting over.

Sorry. That's why I said at the start of this post that someone may have already mentioned the ring figures having a mold unto themselves. One of the reasons I am really looking forward to Veers' MUSCLE site is so we can really start to pull all the speculating/theorizing into one place -- in a refined form. As we all know, Nathan's site is an absolutely AMAZING MUSCLE resource -- just incredible really -- but he steers clear of the speculating for the most part. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a broken record and dead horse beater when it comes to MUSCLE musings.

However, I do stand by my comment that I agree with the gist of what you are saying, but I think there may be more to the story (and a little bit of me splitting hairs). For one, your theory is mainly about the Board Game and figures. Over at Nathan's site, he has two awesome pages devoted to both the Ring and Board Game. Interestingly, the Ring box has a date of 1985 and the Board Game a date of 1986. Going by this, it seems the Ring was created before the Board Game. So -- splitting hairs here -- rather than create the Terri-Bull figure for the Board Game, perhaps he was first created for the Ring and then either (1) was found suitable for the Board Game, (2) the Board Game was created around him, or (3) the Ring and Game Board were created at the same time. (It's notable that Terri-Bull #2 (arms down) was pictured on both the Ring box and the Board Game box -- so maybe they were both developed before Terri-Bull #235 was created.)

Like I said, URS, I think you had the gist of the idea about why #235 Terri-Bull was created, but I envision his creation being more about the ring -- with the need for a Terri-Bull with raised arms -- than him being specially created for the Board Game because of the tree issue. I think the tree issue -- finding a tree with the right number of sculpts that were bad guys -- was definitely a "post" issue, but not the driving force behind the creation of #235 Terri-Bull.

Also, you'll notice that the boxes of both the Ring and the Board Game say they are made in Japan. Is it actually the Wrestling Belt that was made in Mexico? Or is there another source that tells us where the Ring and BG were made?

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

I'm in no hurry Chad, I think your site is gonna kill when it's ready, and I think you should take your time so it is even better.

I agree with your point about the ring and board game Soups. I thought that the ring was made first, then the Board game probably came out later the next year. I'm almost certain that both were made before the Colored figures, if not at the same period as the mix packs.

Veers, do you know what part of 85' Muscles were released? Was it in the final quarter? I had always thought this. That would mean that the Board game could have came out in the first quarter of 86' making it practically so that the ring and game coming out around the same time. I mean really there shouldn't have been much production time needed at all for any Muscle merchandise. Even the Board Game was sort of half A$$ed.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

Man that does make alot of sense, and could be pretty much the nail on the head. That could mean that anytime within that year, or even the first part of the second year the Ring and Board Game could have been made.