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The most amazing find in M.U.S.C.L.E. History!


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#26 el midgetron

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:29 PM

damn, that is some craziness. Its gonna be a LOOOOONG time before someone can top that find. Massive score Johnny.

But you have to wonder, where did this come from? Mattel never distributed M.u.s.c.l.e.s in Japan, so his friend must have gotten it in the US and taken it to Japan.

15 in one box is mind boggling and he apparently knew these were "super rares"?? Or was the title (or translation of) just stating the were very rare and not making specific reference to the M.u.s.c.l.e. collecting term "super rare"?***

Considering how big this find was. I think It would be worth saving the original auction listing. A bitmap would work but saving all the coding and images would be best. That way someone could copy and paste the Japanese text into various translators. Could you at least post a link to it?









*** I think I may have been the first to use the term super rare. I can remember writing a post in the yahoo group where I wanted to distinguish SHA from SC in terms of rareness. Without giving it much thought I refereed to it as being a "super rare" (as opposed to just being "rare" like SC).
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#27 Soupie

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:32 PM

I'm glad you of all people found it and won it.

I couldn't agree more.

As for the figures themselves -- they're beautiful! What a great selection of Non-MUSCLE sculpts to have in MUSCLE plastic!

Jkaris, do you know the Part numbers of each figure off the top of your head? If so, could you list them?

Do you plan on naming them, or shall we refer to them as the Magnificent Eleven (or something)? (Although it sounds like you may be splitting them up all ready.)

Finally, I'm not sure how I feel about the SRs simply being MUSCLE prototypes. However, it's the only way I can make sense of a guy in Japan having so many Non-MUSCLE sculpt MUSCLE plastic figures at once. It takes a little bit of the fun out of it.

:cry:

On the flipside, the figures are still damn sweet and certain to remain highly sought after bits of plastic.

Congrats, again!

:cry:
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#28 el midgetron

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 06:34 PM

Honestly, I'd rather not say, sorry. But it was more than the rarer of the kinkeshi 28 packs sell for. In the hundreds.


lol, give me a break. Didn't a single figure go for like 7 or 8 hundred bucks on ebay once? Even if you shelled out a couple grand for that 28 pack I think you could easily make you money back if not a profit.
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#29 Ridureyu

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 07:07 PM

HOLY WOW


I just noticed this thread!

Yeah, I'd say prototypes.
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#30 Beligerant1

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 07:18 PM

Do you plan on naming them, or shall we refer to them as the Magnificent Eleven (or something)? (Although it sounds like you may be splitting them up all ready.)

What makes you think he is splitting them up? I didnt really get that impression, although its not a bad idea. He should probably give one or two to me for safekeeping, you know, like they do with the people that know the formula for Coke, always riding in seperate planes and whatnot. That way if something happens to one of them, the others will be ok.

:cry:
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#31 Soupie

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 07:29 PM

What makes you think he is splitting them up?

Read between the lines in this thread.

No, I WISH I had a BHS.

You do now...

I took this to mean arforbes had traded one of his two BHSs to Jkaris for one of the eleven.

After reading it a second time, I suppose arforbes may simply have meant jkaris now has a SR(s) of his own.
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#32 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 07:42 PM

There is just something about all this that bugs me. :cry:

1. Nate immediately does a 180, and instead of doubting their authenticity, makes this statement.

I agree. A 28-pack full of Super-Rares totally changes our perception of the Super-Rares, and it introduces a lot of turmoil into the debate. This is, in fact, the most significant find in MUSCLE collecting. This trumps the other Super-Rares, Nestle Quik Can, and even the MUSCLE Truck.


2. Veers and Soups follow the same pattern as Nate, and are well known for their trickery.

3. Jon may not be an all out liar, but I think he would jump at the chance to trick everyone with such a HUGE claim.

4. He presents us with nice photographic evidence, but we know numerous Photoshop Geniuses on these boards who would also love to get in on the scam. Of course if anything makes that task difficult it would be the excess plastic around the figure edges.

5. The two piece Satan Cross comes with....well......TWO PIECES!!!

6. There just happen to be both Satan Cross figures from the same set in the group.

7. There are ELEVEN RARES!!!!!!!

8. Though it's probably on there, I can't seem to find the actual auction page. Probably not doing something right, but it would help if Jon would post it for measure.

9. I'm slightly over weight, but that has nothing to do with it! :cry:

10. Marty May be in the Closet, but also has a great studio and the ability for manipulating and fabricating the figures in question!

I could keep going, but I'm about to get a headache thinking too much. Either way! Nice trick or Nice find! It just seems all to perfect to me! I guess I will have to hold off on telling everyone about that case of Super Rares I found a while back in my dreams for a little while longer.
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#33 Soupie

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 07:58 PM

No, no, you're doing good.

I have a few questions myself. I didn't do a complete 180. (If you've noticed I didn't update my little Super Rare thread.)

My biggest concern was that the auction pic did not have an eBay watermark. However, there are several other things that bother me:

1) Jkaris has not posted a link to the auction
2) He has not posted about this over at BF
3) He has not made an announcement on the Kinnikuman main page
4) In the one photo above, you can see the arm of one of the figures has not been photoshopped and so it looks like a kinkeshi.
5) He has not offered screen grab pics
6) The figures are from parts 22, 24, and 28, all made weeelllllll after part 22.
7) I sweat a lot on the shizznitter at work.
8) Jkaris asked arforbes if he searched eBay religiously... not Yahoo Japan.
9) Veers was a little too post happy (like the hauler gag)
10) And, finally, who would believe a find of 11 NMSMP figures?

And, no, I'm not in on it. Seriously.
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#34 Soupie

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:01 PM

Here's the funny pic:

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Look at the arm on the right.
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#35 Soupie

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:17 PM

That may be the arm of a kin jkaris had there for comparison in which case may statement is still true, eh, hm, "it's a kinkeshi that has not been photoshopped."

:cry:

The other concerns I had were that the SC legs were not attached, and that I've been having trouble sleeping at night.
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#36 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:21 PM

That may be the arm of a kin jkaris had there for comparison in which case may statement is still true, eh, hm, "it's a kinkeshi that has not been photoshopped."

:cry:

The other concerns I had were that the SC legs were not attached, and that I've been having trouble sleeping at night.

I thought the same thing about the arm, but didn't say anything since it could be a Keshi for comparison.

Oh! And I also found this weird lump under my left arm, and was wondering if I should have that looked at. :cry:
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#37 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:30 PM

OH! One more point. If you guys remember a few month's back Jon posted THIS THREAD about some almost legit Bootlegs with the marks and everything that he found. But although he spotted us a pic, he never actually tells us how many he got or of what figures. So could Jon have used some bootie's that he had lying around that almost resemble the real deal? With a little lighting help he could possibly pass off bootlegs as legit muscles. Of course by now I could be over speculating. But if this is a trick Jon is probably lavishing his ingenious plot as we speak! He is probably laughing in his rotating chair as he watches us squirm over this debate. Jon! You are just Pure EVIL!!!! :cry:

Edited by Universal Ruler Supreme, 20 January 2006 - 08:33 PM.

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#38 el midgetron

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:40 PM

I am thinking.....hoax. Forget photoshop, Godbeast could have made some figures that would pass in the photos. The fact that "super rare" was in the auction's title is very suspect. Other facts that don't fit, 15 super rare's all turn up in the same place - Japan. Number of m.u.s.c.l.e.s sold in Japan - 0.

If this find is legit I think Johnny would be right in his salesman sample theory. Since m.u.s.c.l.e. were not marketed in Japan the only way for something like that to end up there would be thru Mattel/Bandia relations. Its also convenient that the seller "got them from his friend" and knows nothing more than that. I think it would be highly likely that if his friend worked for either Mattel or Bandia the seller would have know and remembered that detail.

I sincerely hope this is a legitimate find. If its not, how many fake "finds" are you guys going to have to pull before the joke wears thin?

Would be real easy to put these suspicion to rest Johnny. A link to the listing would clear up any question there might be. No way could you fake the url, seller's history, etcetera.
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#39 Personality #9

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 03:04 AM

OH! One more point. If you guys remember a few month's back Jon posted THIS THREAD about some almost legit Bootlegs with the marks and everything that he found.

So far everyone's completely forgotten to mention the greatest M.U.S.C.L.E. hoax of all time, the infamous A-Hole Sunshine auction that Doc Moore J posted a month ago! :cry: :lol: :cry:
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#40 doc_moore_j

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 05:05 AM

So far everyone's completely forgotten to mention the greatest M.U.S.C.L.E. hoax of all time, the infamous A-Hole Sunshine auction that Doc Moore J posted a month ago! :cry: :lol: :cry:

Yeah that Doc guys is a real butthole. Hahaha
I was skepticle at first, the pictures are very convinving to me though. They are shiny and the perfect match color. I too thought it was really odd that there is 11 brand new SR's, and not 9 of the new and 2 of the old or something. If this was a big hoax, Alex would not be involved he is trying to prove that he is not a big liar (nothing more to be said about that right now, I promises Johnny not to ruin any more of his threads). I personally think this is the greatest discovery in a long time. It might offer new information into the SR phenomena, maybe they all came from Japan when Bandai was trying to talk the US into selling Kinnikuman shizznit. The other discoveries don't even compare to coolness.
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#41 Soupie

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 05:30 AM

URS, I think you've nailed it! To be honest, when I first saw the pics of the 11, I did think they looked a little glossy. I was skeptical about the missing watermark, but I also knew TGB had damn near perfected the MUSCLE color. The cowboy looked a little like the Pink Xar that TGB had made.

But when jkaris posted the comparison pic, you can see that the figures were injection molded, which rules out TGB.

The only thing I question, URS, is the fact that jkaris didn't offer us a photo of some Non-MUSCLE scupt Bootlegs when he showed those pics in the thread you offered. But maybe he got another lot with new figures...

Jkaris is probably smoking a cigar with his metal arm and stroking a hairless cat as I type.

I really want these figures to be real, but jkaris had to have known we would be skeptical.

Let's see a link to the auction, some auction screen grabs, and some comparison pics with those spooky bootlegs. Until then, I'm unconvinced.
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#42 Soupie

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 05:44 AM

If this find is legit I think Johnny would be right in his salesman sample theory.

I sincerely hope this is a legitimate find. If its not, how many fake "finds" are you guys going to have to pull before the joke wears thin?

I arrived at the conclusion that they were prototypes and said so in the SR speculation thread before jkaris mused that they were samples. Jkaris may have been trying to draw us in deeper by "agreeing" with me. (Okay, now I'm getting paranoid. I love it, actually.)

As for the Red Hole Sunshine: If anyone, for more then a nano second, believed that it might be a legit figure and, later, auction, that's on them, not Doc or myself.

If the Eleven turn out to be bootlegs, I hope they are much different than MUSCLEs in viva, because if they're not, I may have lost all my faith in the legitimacy of DM and DE.
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#43 Tortle

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 07:33 AM

1. Nate immediately does a 180, and instead of doubting their authenticity, makes this statement.

Just to clarify, I absolutely doubted their authenticity when Johnny first mentioned them through email, and we discussed my arguments against them. But he got them, he says that they're the same MUSCLE plastic, and that they're unlike any Japanese figures. Since Johnny has billions of MUSCLEs, and probably close to as many Kinkeshi and other Japanese MUSCLEs, I believe him. What, am I going to say that he doesn't know what he's talking about?

If this is a hoax, I'm not in on it. But I don't think so, simply by the tone of his emails and how he's handling the situation. This is why I don't participate in those practical jokes... when you do announce something true, people automatically doubt you.

Anyway...

If the Eleven turn out to be bootlegs, I hope they are much different than MUSCLEs in viva, because if they're not, I may have lost all my faith in the legitimacy of DM and DE.


I absolutely agree. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if they are bootlegs, then BHS and SHA are questionable, too. But, assuming they are bootlegs, if there are no real differences between them and MUSCLEs, how would we know if they're bootlegs?

But I agree that something like this would be very easy to fake in Photoshop. In fact, I think I could do it in 15 minutes. But again, I don't think Johnny's faking it.
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#44 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 07:58 AM

I assure you that Johnny is telling the truth, and this isn’t a hoax. If it was then it would be the final hoax before he shut down this website and his store forever – which he isn’t doing.

Like Nate said, I doubted it at first too. But once Johnny had them in his hand, there was no reason to doubt him.

As for them being “sales samples” I still think this is a very unlikely scenario. In fact the discovery of the Eleven has let me to come up with a completely new theory, which you can read and discusshere.
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#45 Soupie

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 08:19 AM

One reason why jkaris may not be posting a link to the auction, or screen grabs, is because the seller may potentially have more of these figures.
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#46 Personality #9

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 01:14 PM


So far everyone's completely forgotten to mention the greatest M.U.S.C.L.E. hoax of all time, the infamous A-Hole Sunshine auction that Doc Moore J posted a month ago!  :cry:  :lol:  :cry:

Yeah that Doc guys is a real butthole. Hahaha

You said it bro, not me!!! :p :lol: :lol:
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#47 swinger8

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 01:47 PM

Wow.....greatest find ever...that many rares at once......sweet!
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#48 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 03:32 PM

Well, I think I found the auction page.
http://page4.auction...ction/d57872460

But you have to have a Yahoo Auctions Japan ID to view it since it is over, but My computer is pinheaded so I can't get it to translate the stupid text. But I'm sure this is the one Jon was referring to. Interesting that there are no photos. Although I do believe I managed to get the questions page to translate so here it is.



Notice Jkaris name next to the first question, so the auction is credible and he was telling the truth about the questions and such, and he went through Donky bid to buy this auction. So I guess Jon's claim is indeed true. :cry:

Nice.

Edited by jkaris, 22 January 2006 - 03:49 PM.

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#49 EVOM

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 04:20 PM

Congrats Johnny!! This is proof that persistence pays off. You as a well as few of us have been collecting m.u.s.c.l.e.s since they first came out, and this is what so many of us have dreamed about. One of the things that i noticed about this 28 pack is that there are figures in it that should not have come in a 28 pack,(besides the ultimate super rares) but should have been in 4 and 10 packs only. Even if this isn`t a legit 28 pack from bandai these figures are stunning. Who knows, maybe some people at bandai back in the day decided to have some fun and pump out some figures that should not have been released. I know if I worked at a place like bandai I would try something like that. :cry:

Another thing that I thought about when I saw this is that every so often bandai gives some of their employees special figures made in very limited amounts that almost never show up for sale to the general public. I have seen pics of some godzilla figures that they only made 30 of for their employees. I doubt that this is the case with these new super rares but who knows? Maybe there`s a really good bootlegger in Japan? I don`t have a freakin clue but I`m glad We have found these nonetheless!!!
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#50 el midgetron

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 04:27 PM

Well done. It is weird there are no photos but since the auction is over its not that strange. I wont say what he paid for them since he is being coy about it but he got a the deal of the century if you ask me.

I dunno, even after seeing the auction I am still in disbelief. If only his 28 pack could talk - the secrets we would learn :)
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