Does anyone, Veers, Jkaris, arforbes, know the date of the earliest, finalized MUSCLE poster?
Date of MUSCLE poster
Started by
Soupie
, Feb 11 2008 08:21 AM
10 replies to this topic
#1
Soupie
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 08:21 AM
#2
Guest_General Veers_*
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 08:38 AM
I think the only thing would be the copyright, which probably stayed the same on every version.
The best we could probably do, is roughly estimate based on the poster versions mixed with poster offers – which could have only spanned two years max.
The best we could probably do, is roughly estimate based on the poster versions mixed with poster offers – which could have only spanned two years max.
#3
arforbes
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 08:52 AM
Yup, the copyright on my flesh one says Mattel Inc., 1985. The offer on the back of the 4-Packs reads just like this...
Hope that helps with the date info!
Limit one poster per household or organization. Please allow 8 to 10 weeks for receipt of poster. Void where prohibited, taxed or otherwise restricted. No rain checks or other price/product guarantees will be honored. Certificates are non-transferable, non-reproductible. OFFER EXPIRES DECEMBER 31, 1986. REQUEST(S) MUST BE POSTMARKED BY JANUARY 15, 1987. Mattel is not responsible for lost, misdirected or late mail. Offer good in U.S.A. only.
Distributed by Mattel, Inc. Hawthorne, CA 90250 U.S.A. MADE IN JAPAN. Manufactured by Bandai. R and TM designate U.S. trademarks of Mattel, Inc. C Mattel, Inc. 1985. All rights reserved. 2637-0910
Characters C Toei/Yudetamago 1983
Hope that helps with the date info!
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#4
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 09:08 AM
Okay. The reason I ask is that, with the exception of Satan Cross, the MUSCLE poster is extremely accurate, as one would expect it to be.
This means that at the time of the poster's final form, Mattel/Bandai knew exactly which MUSCLEs would and would not be included in the line. We must take this into consideration when we consider the nature of the non-MUSCLE sculpts.
What I'm trying to get at is this: The MUSCLE poster isn't just missing the offensive (Brocken, African Man, etc.) and multi-part sculpts. This means that at the time of the poster's creation, Mattel/Bandai knew either:
(1) That entire family molds containing the undesirable figures would have to be dropped, thus all the figs in those molds are missing from the poster, or
(2) That along with the undesirable figures, certain other sculpts would have to be blocked in order to balance the molds, thus all the "to be blocked" sculpts are missing from the poster as well.
The first scenario wouldn't take any trial and error, which means there wouldn't be any Super Rares floating around. (But this assumes the SRs are connected to the non-MUSCLE sculpts.) However, the 2nd scenario, figuring out which other figures would need to be blocked, would potentially allow several sculpts to be made that would later not be made.
This means that at the time of the poster's final form, Mattel/Bandai knew exactly which MUSCLEs would and would not be included in the line. We must take this into consideration when we consider the nature of the non-MUSCLE sculpts.
What I'm trying to get at is this: The MUSCLE poster isn't just missing the offensive (Brocken, African Man, etc.) and multi-part sculpts. This means that at the time of the poster's creation, Mattel/Bandai knew either:
(1) That entire family molds containing the undesirable figures would have to be dropped, thus all the figs in those molds are missing from the poster, or
(2) That along with the undesirable figures, certain other sculpts would have to be blocked in order to balance the molds, thus all the "to be blocked" sculpts are missing from the poster as well.
The first scenario wouldn't take any trial and error, which means there wouldn't be any Super Rares floating around. (But this assumes the SRs are connected to the non-MUSCLE sculpts.) However, the 2nd scenario, figuring out which other figures would need to be blocked, would potentially allow several sculpts to be made that would later not be made.
Edited by Soupie, 11 February 2008 - 09:10 AM.
#5
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 09:14 AM
Don't forget that the prototype of the poster (on the back of the 28 pack box) looked like it had a lot more sculpts.
#6
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 09:30 AM
Don't forget that the prototype of the poster (on the back of the 28 pack box) looked like it had a lot more sculpts.
I was looking at that the other day on back of the 28-Pack. Wishing I had a blown up version of the thing so we could see exactly what sculpts are on that thing!
I can tell this for certain...There are 400 figures on the proto-type poster. If you count the rows and columns very carefully you will find out that it is 20 rows X 20 columns of figures. 400 figures! Just about the right amount for the entire Kinkeshi line!
Also, I wonder what is the significance of the colored boxes on the proto poster. There seems to be a good 35+ or so. How many Super Rares exist now? 20 sculpts total right? (Magnificent 11 + SC + SHA + BHS + Drunken Master + Dark Emperor + Dr. Bonbe + Red Geronimo + 2 Dark Blue[Missle Man and Buffaloman, Robinmask is one of the Magnificent 11]). What if the colored boxes show the MUSCLE Super Rares? Just a theory...
Edited by arforbes, 11 February 2008 - 09:59 AM.
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#7
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 10:00 AM
Yes! I know all of us have discussed this ad nausea, but I feel the answer is on the tips of our brains!
Could the proto-poster be taken to mean that the line hadn't yet been fully determined at the beginning of production? Does the proto-poster only speak to the fact that Mattel/Bandai planned on producing MUSCLEs beyond part 21 -- and actually says nothing about the non-MUSCLE sculpts.
At the very least, this seems to indicate that the finalized poster was not available until AFTER MUSCLE production had begun. Can we pull any info from that fact?
Could the proto-poster be taken to mean that the line hadn't yet been fully determined at the beginning of production? Does the proto-poster only speak to the fact that Mattel/Bandai planned on producing MUSCLEs beyond part 21 -- and actually says nothing about the non-MUSCLE sculpts.
At the very least, this seems to indicate that the finalized poster was not available until AFTER MUSCLE production had begun. Can we pull any info from that fact?
#8
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 11:07 AM
I'd say that muscles made their debue in late 85, and probably didn't get any posters out till mid to late 86. I'm sure that the Kinnikuman line was up to part 28 at the time of full muscle production, as well as possibly having a number of previous parts still being produced. I believe that the 28 pack that Jkaris found was in fact a test sample. that would explain the high part rares in it.
Remember too that there were side sets and playsets out. I'm more than sure that they had considered using the sculpts from these sets for the muscle line, but probably dropped these trees because most of them contained sculpts that were virtually identical to figures from other parts.
Remember too that there were side sets and playsets out. I'm more than sure that they had considered using the sculpts from these sets for the muscle line, but probably dropped these trees because most of them contained sculpts that were virtually identical to figures from other parts.
#9
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 04:32 PM
I'd say that muscles made their debue in late 85, and probably didn't get any posters out till mid to late 86. I'm sure that the Kinnikuman line was up to part 28 at the time of full muscle production, as well as possibly having a number of previous parts still being produced. I believe that the 28 pack that Jkaris found was in fact a test sample. that would explain the high part rares in it.
My all Flesh poster is dated 1985.
#10
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Posted 11 February 2008 - 05:48 PM
where is there a pic of the prototype poster?
#11
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Posted 12 February 2008 - 05:23 AM
I think there’s really something to consider with the poster offer, let me ramble for a minute. It could really offer some insight because we’re dealing with a pretty finite period of time. Bandai and Mattel partner in 1986, MUSCLE is released in 1986, MUSCLE is still a product in 1987, and it’s gone from the catalog in 1988. At most we’re looking at a time period of two years.
Now with Bandai and Mattel partnering there probably wasn’t any work done until the partnership was official. I’m sure there was informal brainstorming and some rough outlines, but nothing official. With Toy Fair being in February, and MUSCLE in the catalog I think it’s safe to assume there could have only been one month of pre-work done, probably less because the catalogs had to be printed.
This is probably why we see a slightly different MUSCLE pre-pack in the catalog. This is probably why we also see MUSCLE figures that don’t gel with our production/tree logic. To have a product for the catalog, they used the Japanese figures – which would have been virtually identical in a picture. They could have used an existing picture from Bandai’s files too.
The figures hit the shelves based on orders from Toy Fair. I imagine this gives the brand managers a little time to start working on MUSCLE. They probably generate lots of ideas but two, for a myriad of reasons, get the green light: Nestle and a promotional poster.
I imagine their concern is to have some interest generated by December of 1986. While I can’t look right now we could figure out an approximate date for the Nestle MUSCLE deal by looking at the date of the comics and magazines it was in (again probably a pretty small window). My guess is that it was towards the end of summer for two reasons: (1) the MUSCLE school tube; and (2) they’re thinking about Christmas.
I thought we had agreed that the first wave of 4- and 28-packs didn’t have the promotional advertisement. Here’s what’s confusing, by the time the poster preview picture arrives Mattel has already released materials with ~200 to 233 as the figure count.
That preview poster picture is either based on pre-1986 Mattel information or blindly created by an artist.
Now with Bandai and Mattel partnering there probably wasn’t any work done until the partnership was official. I’m sure there was informal brainstorming and some rough outlines, but nothing official. With Toy Fair being in February, and MUSCLE in the catalog I think it’s safe to assume there could have only been one month of pre-work done, probably less because the catalogs had to be printed.
This is probably why we see a slightly different MUSCLE pre-pack in the catalog. This is probably why we also see MUSCLE figures that don’t gel with our production/tree logic. To have a product for the catalog, they used the Japanese figures – which would have been virtually identical in a picture. They could have used an existing picture from Bandai’s files too.
The figures hit the shelves based on orders from Toy Fair. I imagine this gives the brand managers a little time to start working on MUSCLE. They probably generate lots of ideas but two, for a myriad of reasons, get the green light: Nestle and a promotional poster.
I imagine their concern is to have some interest generated by December of 1986. While I can’t look right now we could figure out an approximate date for the Nestle MUSCLE deal by looking at the date of the comics and magazines it was in (again probably a pretty small window). My guess is that it was towards the end of summer for two reasons: (1) the MUSCLE school tube; and (2) they’re thinking about Christmas.
I thought we had agreed that the first wave of 4- and 28-packs didn’t have the promotional advertisement. Here’s what’s confusing, by the time the poster preview picture arrives Mattel has already released materials with ~200 to 233 as the figure count.
That preview poster picture is either based on pre-1986 Mattel information or blindly created by an artist.
