55 replies to this topic

[grimerslimer]

I'm just going to stick to trading and painting/kitbashing for the next nine days, (the bet with my wife! ) And hope that the prices take a nose dive just after I can bid again!

The good thing is that the recent prices have made it easy to win this bet!

--grimey

[lazzy lizard]

good luck w/ that the going recent bids and ended auctions are crazy. i'm glad all i'm looking for now is laser beasts & weapons to finish off my collection.

=)

here is a few good examples>>

http://cgi.ebay.com/...me=STRK:MEBI:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/...me=STRK:MEDW:IT

Edited by lazzy lizard, 04 May 2005 - 05:12 AM.

[grimerslimer]

WOW! Even your last bids, LL, was far more than what I would have bid on either auction. My cap would have been about $60 for the first and $100 for the second if I were going for them!

So much for the days of picking up a ton of beasts for a couple bucks each!

I wonder how long the trend will last! No longer than 8 more days???

In my dreams...

--grimey

[lazzy lizard]

that wasn't me that was my cousin who istrying to start up his collection on his own w/o my help! there is no way in hell i was gonna spend that kinda cash on those lots!

=)

[Soupie]

Just because I got some good deals recently through buying and trading does not mean that overall the many new members are not driving up the prices of the basic set (1-76) Battle Beasts.

Right. However, my issue is with your attitude toward this phenomenon: There are too many collectors. I think it's wrong.

[ComradeCuttlefish]

Just because I got some good deals recently through buying and trading does not mean that overall the many new members are not driving up the prices of the basic set (1-76) Battle Beasts.

Right. However, my issue is with your attitude toward this phenomenon: There are too many collectors. I think it's wrong.

Perhaps you should have been clearer.

I don't care if you don't like what I say, but I do care that you acknowledge that what I say is accurate: that the increase in collectors has caused prices to rise.

[Soupie]

I don't care if you don't like what I say, but I do care that you acknowledge that what I say is accurate: that the increase in collectors has caused prices to rise.

Hey, man, don't be so full of yourself. The mechanism of supply and demand has been around and understood for thousands of years. Of course the increase in BB collectors will affect their price.

The point is your belief that there are "too" many collectors is, I believe, potentially hurtful to the hobby. In my opinion, there can never be too many collectors.

The reason I orginally posted was that despite your elitist belief, you still managed to purchase/trade for the items you desired. In my opinion, this disproves your initial claim that there are too many collectors. Is that clear enough?

[jkaris]

The flip side to this can also be that since there are an increase in collectors, and prices are driven up for s hort time, that encourages more people to sell, flooding the market with more supply than demand, thus causing prices to drop significantly.

It happens all the time.

[Personality #9]

The flip side to this can also be that since there are an increase in collectors, and prices are driven up for s hort time, that encourages more people to sell, flooding the market with more supply than demand, thus causing prices to drop significantly.

It happens all the time.

That's just the never ending battle of Supply vs. Demand.

Equilibrium will always be obtained, so what jkaris says is absolutly correct. More collectors = higher prices; higher prices = more items available for sale; More items available for sale = Lower prices.

It's very simple.

[ComradeCuttlefish]

The flip side to this can also be that since there are an increase in collectors, and prices are driven up for s hort time, that encourages more people to sell, flooding the market with more supply than demand, thus causing prices to drop significantly.

It happens all the time.

That's just the never ending battle of Supply vs. Demand.

Equilibrium will always be obtained, so what jkaris says is absolutly correct. More collectors = higher prices; higher prices = more items available for sale; More items available for sale = Lower prices.

It's very simple.

In theory all of that is correct, however we are dealing with a limited supply, so that changes everything. Just because demand is high does not mean Hasbro or Takara will produce more, or someone else is going to pull Battle Beasts out of their arse (unless TGB's customs count! haha) to meet that demand. So while you are correct to say higher demand will cause prices to rise, it is impossible for that demand to be met with higher supply because there were only so many of these made and only so many that can be discovered in somebody's closet to be placed on ebay. Eventually the supply will reach its maximum. At the point when the supply reaches its maximum the demand will force prices higher because the same supply will simply be changing hands. That is actually quite simple. You have to remember that we are dealing with an item that is no longer produced. We are working with a limited supply but not a limited demand, and that changes everything. And that means that an influx of new collectors will only magnify in the short term what is going to happen in the long term: supply cannot change but demand can grow, thus prices increase.

Edited by CuttleFishforsale, 08 May 2005 - 01:00 PM.

[jkaris]

I hate to break it to you, but BB figures were mass produced, and there are far fewer collectors than there would need to be to even approach any price increases due to actual supply issues. The only reason prices fluctuate now is due to how many auctions are listed at any one given time, not due to the fact that the toyline is no longer produced. In short, there are far more battle beasts out there than there will even be collectors to collect them.

To think that we will some day run short on battle beasts is an incorrect assumption. The BB/LB scene is a blip on the radar compared to masses of GI Joe or TF collectors. If we had those numbers, than yes, your theory might be correct, but as it sits, with our puny group (in comparison to the larger lines) it will never happen.

[THEGODBEAST]

The flip side to this can also be that since there are an increase in collectors, and prices are driven up for s hort time, that encourages more people to sell, flooding the market with more supply than demand, thus causing prices to drop significantly.

It happens all the time.

That's just the never ending battle of Supply vs. Demand.

Equilibrium will always be obtained, so what jkaris says is absolutly correct. More collectors = higher prices; higher prices = more items available for sale; More items available for sale = Lower prices.

It's very simple.

In theory all of that is correct, however we are dealing with a limited supply, so that changes everything. Just because demand is high does not mean Hasbro or Takara will produce more, or someone else is going to pull Battle Beasts out of their arse (unless TGB's customs count! haha) to meet that demand. So while you are correct to say higher demand will cause prices to rise, it is impossible for that demand to be met with higher supply because there were only so many of these made and only so many that can be discovered in somebody's closet to be placed on ebay. Eventually the supply will reach its maximum. At the point when the supply reaches its maximum the demand will force prices higher because the same supply will simply be changing hands. That is actually quite simple. You have to remember that we are dealing with an item that is no longer produced. We are working with a limited supply but not a limited demand, and that changes everything. And that means that an influx of new collectors will only magnify in the short term what is going to happen in the long term: supply cannot change but demand can grow, thus prices increase.

This really is quite simple...

#1 Hasbro/Takara MASS PRODUCED this toys.

#2 There are more collectors now, however, collectors like me are NOT competing with the new collectors (that trouble you sooooooo much).

#3 With EVERY toy line the prices fluxuate up and down.

#4 Yes there will ALWAYS be a handful of auctions that skyrocket into crazy $$$, however, that is NOT the norm.

#5 Jkaris is correct, as soon as an item/auction sells super high a BUNCH of sellers USUALLY flood the market and the prices come down. Which is the nature of supply and demand in a capitalist society.

#6 AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, I do NOT pull my customs out of my arse! There very few of my customs made and they have proven to NOT adversly affect the market...(Bickmore's biggest complaint, which is totally unwarranted) unless you count them sparking collectors to collect making your collection worth more $$$.

#7 Why on earth would you NOT want your collection to be worth more $$$??? So why you do constantly bee-eye-itch about "too many collectors?" If you don't want your collection to be worth something, why don't you just collect sticks?

In my opinion Jkaris and Soupie are 100% correct in their statements.

I think Dave Barry, Sylvain, Arnaud, Lazorlion, Davefishes, etc...(collectors that have been around collecting these for 5-10 years) would be more qualified to state whether or not there are too many collectors. If you haven't purchased many high LB's, then you have no idea...these Battle Beast prices are really only catching up to the proper prices after the high LB's have been so grossly over priced off and on for the last 5+ years.

Just my 2 cents.

TGB

Edited by THEGODBEAST, 08 May 2005 - 04:14 PM.

[ComradeCuttlefish]

I hate to break it to you, but BB figures were mass produced, and there are far fewer collectors than there would need to be to even approach any price increases due to actual supply issues. The only reason prices fluctuate now is due to how many auctions are listed at any one given time, not due to the fact that the toyline is no longer produced. In short, there are far more battle beasts out there than there will even be collectors to collect them.

To think that we will some day run short on battle beasts is an incorrect assumption. The BB/LB scene is a blip on the radar compared to masses of GI Joe or TF collectors. If we had those numbers, than yes, your theory might be correct, but as it sits, with our puny group (in comparison to the larger lines) it will never happen.

My point is that while we have not yet reached the point where supply is so low that prices become ridiculously high we see currently that while supply remains almost constant that increased demand causes higher prices. The point of my last post was not to say supply will become depleted, rather, it was to say that we cannot expect what you said will happen: That supply will increase to meet demand and prices will drop. Supply is limited, but demand is not. And I do not think there are people sitting around just waiting for Battle Beast prices to rise so they can sell theirs on ebay. If that were the case we would see more auctions today than we did a year ago, two years ago or even three years ago. For all of those people who have collected for several years, you can confirm that there is a constant supply of between 30-100 Battle Beasts auctions daily on ebay.

---
And just for the record, I have been collecting Battle Beasts on and off since mid-2001. I have an excellent idea of prices and what has happened over the years. In fact, when prices really jumped in about 2002, I sold my entire collection. I thought at the time they wouldn't get any higher. Prices today are even higher now than they were then, however. I managed to make a bunch of money, and was lucky enough to reacquire figures cheaply, but prices on ebay are still increasing.

[ComradeCuttlefish]

The flip side to this can also be that since there are an increase in collectors, and prices are driven up for s hort time, that encourages more people to sell, flooding the market with more supply than demand, thus causing prices to drop significantly.

It happens all the time.

That's just the never ending battle of Supply vs. Demand.

Equilibrium will always be obtained, so what jkaris says is absolutly correct. More collectors = higher prices; higher prices = more items available for sale; More items available for sale = Lower prices.

It's very simple.

In theory all of that is correct, however we are dealing with a limited supply, so that changes everything. Just because demand is high does not mean Hasbro or Takara will produce more, or someone else is going to pull Battle Beasts out of their arse (unless TGB's customs count! haha) to meet that demand. So while you are correct to say higher demand will cause prices to rise, it is impossible for that demand to be met with higher supply because there were only so many of these made and only so many that can be discovered in somebody's closet to be placed on ebay. Eventually the supply will reach its maximum. At the point when the supply reaches its maximum the demand will force prices higher because the same supply will simply be changing hands. That is actually quite simple. You have to remember that we are dealing with an item that is no longer produced. We are working with a limited supply but not a limited demand, and that changes everything. And that means that an influx of new collectors will only magnify in the short term what is going to happen in the long term: supply cannot change but demand can grow, thus prices increase.

This really is quite simple...

#1 Hasbro/Takara <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>MASS PRODUCED this toys.

#2 There are more collectors now, however, collectors like me are NOT competing with the new collectors (that trouble you sooooooo much).

#3 With EVERY toy line the prices fluxuate up and down.

#4 Yes there will ALWAYS be a handful of auctions that skyrocket into crazy $$$, however, that is NOT the norm.

#5 Jkaris is correct, as soon as an item/auction sells super high a BUNCH of sellers USUALLY flood the market and the prices come down. Which is the nature of supply and demand in a capitalist society.

#6 AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, I do NOT pull my customs out of my arse! There very few of my customs made and they have proven to NOT adversly affect the market...(Bickmore's biggest complaint, which is totally unwarranted) unless you count them sparking collectors to collect making your collection worth more $$$.

#7 Why on earth would you NOT want your collection to be worth more $$$??? So why you do constantly bee-eye-itch about "too many collectors?" If you don't want your collection to be worth something, why don't you just collect sticks?

In my opinion Jkaris and Soupie are 100% correct in their statements.

I think Dave Barry, Sylvain, Arnaud, Lazorlion, Davefishes, etc...(collectors that have been around collecting these for 5-10 years) would be more qualified to state whether or not there are too many collectors. If you haven't purchased many high LB's, then you have no idea...these Battle Beast prices are really only catching up to the proper prices after the high LB's have been so grossly over priced off and on for the last 5+ years.

Just my 2 cents.

TGB</span>

Oh, what I said about your customs was a joke. You should reread my post to make sure you understand that.

You are also correct that I do not collect Laser Beasts. The prices are ridiculously high for a toy--toys I didn't even have as a kid, which is why I don't collect them. But I would argue that the reason Laser Beast prices have dropped is because now almost everyone who wanted them has them, so there are fewer people to fight over them, i.e. less demand. I think you would probably agree that the interest in Laser Beasts is much lower than the interest in Battle Beasts.

[THEGODBEAST]

I hate to break it to you, but BB figures were mass produced, and there are far fewer collectors than there would need to be to even approach any price increases due to actual supply issues. The only reason prices fluctuate now is due to how many auctions are listed at any one given time, not due to the fact that the toyline is no longer produced. In short, there are far more battle beasts out there than there will even be collectors to collect them.

To think that we will some day run short on battle beasts is an incorrect assumption. The BB/LB scene is a blip on the radar compared to masses of GI Joe or TF collectors. If we had those numbers, than yes, your theory might be correct, but as it sits, with our puny group (in comparison to the larger lines) it will never happen.

My point is that while we have not yet reached the point where supply is so low that prices become ridiculously high we see currently that while supply remains almost constant that increased demand causes higher prices. The point of my last post was not to say supply will become depleted, rather, it was to say that we cannot expect what you said will happen: That supply will increase to meet demand and prices will drop. Supply is limited, but demand is not. And I do not think there are people sitting around just waiting for Battle Beast prices to rise so they can sell theirs on ebay. If that were the case we would see more auctions today than we did a year ago, two years ago or even three years ago. For all of those people who have collected for several years, you can confirm that there is a constant supply of between 30-100 Battle Beasts auctions daily on ebay.

---
And just for the record, I have been collecting Battle Beasts on and off since mid-2001. I have an excellent idea of prices and what has happened over the years. In fact, when prices really jumped in about 2002, I sold my entire collection. I thought at the time they wouldn't get any higher. Prices today are even higher now than they were then, however. I managed to make a bunch of money, and was lucky enough to reacquire figures cheaply, but prices on ebay are still increasing.

IF you have collected since 2001, then you shouldn't be making inaccurate statements...

Prices were ultra high 3-4 years ago, however, all those high LB's have also sold for record lows lately too.

Look at the prices roland13 has sold #101, #102, and #111 for. Look at the Stone Cobra that Gaara bought from Hydra for $127.50. Look at the MIB #98 koppenchevelle bought from Hydra (I think it was $50, right?)...

So I don't want to hear anymore bee-eye-itchin' about too many collectors driving the prices up forever...that is baloney.

Sure we have had #59's mint complete sell for $50, however, we have also had them sell for $10...the figure is probably only a $25 figure considering the popularity of that character and the fact they were only produced in North America and Japan.

Please...stop postin' doom and gloom on the collector community...it isn't even close to factual and it really bums out the newbs.

TGB

[THEGODBEAST]

Oh, what I said about your customs was a joke. You should reread my post to make sure you understand that.

You are also correct that I do not collect Laser Beasts. The prices are ridiculously high for a toy--toys I didn't even have as a kid, which is why I don't collect them. But I would argue that the reason Laser Beast prices have dropped is because now almost everyone who wanted them has them, so there are fewer people to fight over them, i.e. less demand.  I think you would probably agree that the interest in Laser Beasts is much lower than the interest in Battle Beasts.

Remember...emoticons help... I saw your "ha!ha!"

I am NOT mad, only STRESSING the point that my art is NOT anywhere in the realm of a mass produced toy line from the 80's.

Since you agree with my high LB assessment, then my point IS proven.

The same will happen with the BB's as soon as most the newbs have what they need.

I disagree...NEARLY all BB collectors move from BB's to low LB's to high LB's as soon as they can afford them or stumble upon good deals (like Roland13's).

TGB

Edited by THEGODBEAST, 08 May 2005 - 04:37 PM.

[ComradeCuttlefish]

I hate to break it to you, but BB figures were mass produced, and there are far fewer collectors than there would need to be to even approach any price increases due to actual supply issues. The only reason prices fluctuate now is due to how many auctions are listed at any one given time, not due to the fact that the toyline is no longer produced. In short, there are far more battle beasts out there than there will even be collectors to collect them.

To think that we will some day run short on battle beasts is an incorrect assumption. The BB/LB scene is a blip on the radar compared to masses of GI Joe or TF collectors. If we had those numbers, than yes, your theory might be correct, but as it sits, with our puny group (in comparison to the larger lines) it will never happen.

My point is that while we have not yet reached the point where supply is so low that prices become ridiculously high we see currently that while supply remains almost constant that increased demand causes higher prices. The point of my last post was not to say supply will become depleted, rather, it was to say that we cannot expect what you said will happen: That supply will increase to meet demand and prices will drop. Supply is limited, but demand is not. And I do not think there are people sitting around just waiting for Battle Beast prices to rise so they can sell theirs on ebay. If that were the case we would see more auctions today than we did a year ago, two years ago or even three years ago. For all of those people who have collected for several years, you can confirm that there is a constant supply of between 30-100 Battle Beasts auctions daily on ebay.

---
And just for the record, I have been collecting Battle Beasts on and off since mid-2001. I have an excellent idea of prices and what has happened over the years. In fact, when prices really jumped in about 2002, I sold my entire collection. I thought at the time they wouldn't get any higher. Prices today are even higher now than they were then, however. I managed to make a bunch of money, and was lucky enough to reacquire figures cheaply, but prices on ebay are still increasing.

IF you have collected since 2001, then you shouldn't be making inaccurate statements...

Prices were ultra high 3-4 years ago, however, all those high LB's have also sold for record lows lately too.

Look at the prices roland13 has sold #101, #102, and #111 for. Look at the Stone Cobra that Gaara bought from Hydra for $127.50. Look at the MIB #98 koppenchevelle bought from Hydra (I think it was $50, right?)...

So I don't want to hear anymore bee-eye-itchin' about too many collectors driving the prices up forever...that is baloney.

Sure we have had #59's mint complete sell for $50, however, we have also had them sell for $10...the figure is probably only a $25 figure considering the popularity of that character and the fact they were only produced in North America and Japan.

Please...stop postin' doom and gloom on the collector community...it isn't even close to factual and it really bums out the newbs.

TGB

No, no, no.

I am not talking about Laser Beasts (except in that single other post where I agreed with you). I am saying that for the four years or so that I have collected prices for the regular series (1-76) have steadily increased. The reason they have increased is because of the steady increase in number of collectors. I believe you may be correct when you say that eventually we may see the day when everyone who wants to collect is, and steady prices will then be established for Battle Beasts. However--and this a big however--what bothers me is that in the mean time we have to put up with new, temporary collectors, who, in the short term, do nothing but drive up prices. We also have to recognize that there is a finite number of Battle Beasts but an infinite number of potential collectors; and unlike Laser Beasts, Battle Beasts are desired and affordable to more people than Laser Beasts, so a true parallel cannot be drawn between the two.

Edited by CuttleFishforsale, 08 May 2005 - 04:48 PM.

[modpodcrazy]

I hate to say it since you all seem so intent on the prices going down but I don't see that happening at all I am buying up as many as I can because as tiem goes on there will only be less and less battle beasts which will make the price go higher and higher.
Supply and demand rule and the supply of an item that is no longer being made only goes down and more and more peopel that don't know of these items value decreases. while more people like me are getting older that had played withthem as children and are starting to have more money in their pockets as they get out of college and will start to want to buy them I have paid 45 dollars for mint on card battle beast and I plan to keep buying them because I think come christmas time we will be seeing MOC selling for 60 or more

[lord]

To my mind there is not enough collectors out there. If only we could be as numbered as the MOTU collectors or Gi Joe's or, we may always dream, STAR WARS ! This will result in :

1 - more poeple to talk with
2 - more demands so more sellers
3 - all the forgotten stocks will then pop up one day or another.

There is largely enough figures for our small community. If you find that prices are too high just wait that everybody got every figures. But then you may have hard time finding one as no more seller will spent time (and money) in searching for BB items.


Just my 2 cents.



Sylvain

[lazzy lizard]

THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT!!!

YEAH!

=)

Edited by lazzy lizard, 09 May 2005 - 05:25 AM.

[dockingbay97]

I guess I want put my 2 cents in here.

This site while extremely valuable, I do not believe has caused a dramatic increase in BB collectors. I mean to find this site exists takes a little more effort than a glance by a casual toy collector. I think most people who have signed on here did so because they were BB collectors already in some fashion, searched for a place like this and were glad to have a common watering hole to discuss BB.

While I do collect BB, they are on the back burner for me compared to other toy lines. Do I like them any more or less because of this site? - no. I have been buying BB since they came out and have been on a steady pace of a couple here and couple there a year.

If there is a price increase in BB, I think it has more to do with the resurgence of all 1980's toy lines. Everyone seems to be on a nostaglia kick over the past few years. And in the end this will pass and prices will come down.

To make statements like

There are now too many people collecting Battle Beasts.

and so on with your first post is simply flame baiting IMO.

To be a part of a collecting community like this - to be a real member - is in part to suport one another in the common interest we all have. To sit above the rest and tell people they are not real BB collectors and to estentially go home is well, rather sad.

So why don't I contribute more on this board? Because Jacob you are a cancer. You use boards more for spreading your morality of the moment and judgements of others than using the board to be part of the community. You like to push people's buttons more than anything else.

I was deeply saddened to see that you registered here and not suprised in the least of posts like this.

[unix4]

Hey, quit shooting me.

[dockingbay97]

Hey, quit shooting me.

I am not trying to scare collectors away with the gun!

The more collectors here the better I say!

Edited by dockingbay97, 11 May 2005 - 09:06 AM.

[Personality #9]

To be a part of a collecting community like this - to be a real member - is in part to suport one another in the common interest we all have. To sit above the rest and tell people they are not real BB collectors and to estentially go home is well, rather sad.

A relativly obscure line like BB/LB needs a community like this to help share whatever information about the line that exists.

I'm sure that nobody here expects for this line to suddenly explode to the popularity level that other lines such as Transformers, G.I. Joe or Stars Wars having enjoying for quite some time now. It would only be if there was a sudden explotion of popularity in the BB/LB line that prices would rise significantly.

Therefore, the argument that there are "Too many collectors" is fallacious.

Member support is important on any board, but here it's even more important due to the relativly small amount of collectors out there. Unfortunatly, not every person who's interested in this line will find this board, much less sign up and participate...

I do find it rather sad that you don't participate more dockingbay 97, and hope to see that change dispite the aformentioned reasons...

[unix4]

I actually do not believe that there are too many collectors.

First thing several of the comic shops and such in this area have not even heard of BB or LB. In fact it is rare to find anyone who has heard of them.

Secondly, I believe that due to the nature of the toy, those who do collect them feel the "need" to have the complete set and all of the variations, thus leading to more competition and increased prices. Note, E-Bay's recent activity.

Thirdly many people online are stearing away from the toy line due to the high price per figure.

Therefor those who do collect, spend more money, or are in it for the short term and will eventually fall out. Thus, leaving the prices back where they were about a year ago. (much lower)