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Green Mountain Beastformers come clean about custom Battle Beasts


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#51 GreenMountainBeastformers

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:23 AM

TGB and I are both American. I don't mind copying his reproductions, but I will not copy his original work. I personally don't care what a couple wet blankets think.  when I joined LRG about a year or 2 ago, Some people tried to campaign against me and even tried to tell me not to use "greek colors" as if colors are effing exclusive.  As someone who has fought actual battles to defend myself, in real life, I find unpleasant verbal discourse a tedious waste of time and energy.  As someone who belongs to an actual community, I really don't give a shit what some stranger online thinks.  Especially because I'm just a Dad trying to put food on the table for my 2 children and my wife.  With GMB, my goal is to be like Robin Hood and bring these super expensive beasts (for which I pay full price) to fans who couldn't otherwise afford them.  If you look at my ebay listings you will see, I'm not trying to make a fortune on these guys, just get a fair price for the work I do.  It doesn't cost me much to make a clear carp, so why should I sell it for more than $15?  Like someone said before, the people who have a problem with GMB are people who are trying to sell the originals for $400+, and I'm their competition.  By the way I have some laser beast sleds on the way!!

 

Best wishes and God's Blessings to all,

David Hudson


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#52 JonnyPac

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:49 AM

Not to get too involved...

I collect the original line yes. I have the original clear figures and stone cobra, etc. I know how they look, feel, and smell. I also have several TGB customs. They are hard resin and feel NOTHING like the originals. Marked or not, BBs/LBs have never been reproduced to be indistinguishable by casting them in HARD resin. The same goes for the repro rubs (they have texture), TGB/GMB SDs (they are not soft and have no holes in the base), the repro shields are marked/alternate colors, and so on. There are few items made by 3rd parties that would fool anyone who gives a darn (besides maybe the Chinese LB weapons mentioned above?).  

 

Online Sales?
Say, if a seller on eBay were to try to sell a counterfeit clear carp, the buyer would know right away that he'd been duped. Then eBay has a system where the buyer is protected from listings that are inaccurate. The figure would be returned and the seller would get the wrath of eBay/Paypal + poor feedback to stop him dead. It's like any stupid petty crime. It will get you in deep yogurt when you get caught. Game over, lousy seller. 

Price Stability?
We have seen the prices on most BB/LB stuff go up and up,and up in the last decade (I really got back into BBs around 2006). I think those of us with big investments in the line are safe from the values dropping below the prices we paid per item. I have not lost a dime. In fact most of the stuff I have is now worth 50% to 200% more than what I paid for it back in the mid 2000's.

GMB/Customs/Bootlegs?
I have no issue with his work: he makes mostly customs and a few honest repros of other bits (cast in hard resin with full disclosures). In fact, I'm gonna have him make me some custom yellow SDs to sit beside my clear orange TGB SDs. I think they look better than the original pencil toppers!

Why not have some cool unique items in your collection, bootlegs, knock-offs, or otherwise? I actually collect bootlegs! I have all sorts of Mexican and Russian BBs. I have the War Monsters from Canada. Oddballs from Europe and Asia. Beast Saga. And the new Italian figures. I like them all for what they are. 

And none of this slows my passion for the original line--which is practically divine. There is no toyline or bootleg that will truly rival real Battle Beasts for me. Nuff' said! :)
     


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#53 Spiritcrusher

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:19 PM

Good post Jonny. I pretty much agree.

I'm all for preserving the original line of figures and making sure the legacy is not damaged or tarnished.

What David is doing with his customs is not harming the original line at all. It's a very obvious difference between his creations and the original figures. Like you said, they look and feel and smell different. I don't have a problem with it.

Now, if someone was making reproductions of the originals and trying to sell them as originals, that would be a problem and a moral issue. But that's not happening here.

Personally, I'm really happy that someone made those reproduction sleds and shields for the Laser Beasts. The reproductions look almost exactly like the originals and are very affordable, averaging in price at about $8 a piece. Where as the original sleds and shields are being sold for $100 to $200. That's just rediculous. And the reproductions are clearly marked as repro so people know what they are buying.

The bigger problem that actually damages the original line of figures is people hoarding them by the hundreds to create an artificial demand and causing the prices to skyrocket, as we see now on eBay, with Penguins, and Crows and Sharks being sold for $40 or more. That's just unacceptable.

That's what makes collectors and potential collectors lose interest in a line. Not someone who makes a few customs and paints them different colors.

At the end of the day, people just need to live their own lives and mind their own business, and worry about their own toys. If David is being harassed by people because of his customs, then obviously those people have nothing better to do with their free time, and need to go get a job to keep themselves occupied.

Just my opinion. Take it or leave it :)

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#54 Draznar

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:21 PM

By the way I have some laser beast sleds on the way!!

 

You're doing god's work!


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#55 Beastformers

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:00 PM

TGB and I are both American. I don't mind copying his reproductions, but I will not copy his original work. I personally don't care what a couple wet blankets think.  when I joined LRG about a year or 2 ago, Some people tried to campaign against me and even tried to tell me not to use "greek colors" as if colors are effing exclusive.  As someone who has fought actual battles to defend myself, in real life, I find unpleasant verbal discourse a tedious waste of time and energy.  As someone who belongs to an actual community, I really don't give a shit what some stranger online thinks.  Especially because I'm just a Dad trying to put food on the table for my 2 children and my wife.  With GMB, my goal is to be like Robin Hood and bring these super expensive beasts (for which I pay full price) to fans who couldn't otherwise afford them.  If you look at my ebay listings you will see, I'm not trying to make a fortune on these guys, just get a fair price for the work I do.  It doesn't cost me much to make a clear carp, so why should I sell it for more than $15?  Like someone said before, the people who have a problem with GMB are people who are trying to sell the originals for $400+, and I'm their competition.  By the way I have some laser beast sleds on the way!!

 

Best wishes and God's Blessings to all,

David Hudson

 

UNBELIEVABLE..........
The last reply in this topic was from the end of April 2016!!!! and it seemed to have cooled down, in favor of Mr. GMB, but look who decided to start the fire again with the hope/intention to slander a ¨couple of wet blankets,¨ ¨some people¨ or ¨some stranger online¨ or in other words those people within the BB community who´re not afraid to step up in order to defend the original line it is Mr. GMB himself!? You must been having some serious struggles coming back to a topic that´s over a year old? What happened because you normally only seem to place a post out here once you´ve created something new, which obviously is for sale and advertised only a few lines later in the same post, but looks like you´ve another strategy this time around. Are the sales getting less, did you receive comments or critics from someone which made you feel like you had to step up for yourself and attack fellow board members again? Or did you just miss the criticism and discussions around your work? Not sure what you´ve been thinking with this reply but we´re not fools out here who you can slander without getting backfired because those ¨couple of wet blanket strangers¨  are people who´ve been way more valuable to the BB community with info that does matter and which is an asset for all fellow collectors out here whether you´re pro or con reproductions compared to all your very strategic post that only have one goal and that´s to promote your own ¨unique¨ business. And with that in mind it might not be very wise to spread false info on how you obtain your figs and what´s the real ¨Robin Hood¨ reason behind it. 

 

I´ve had some serious arguments with the Councils out here about your approach and this almost got me banned but you´re really crossing a line here and since you started this fire yourself you know there´s a risk of getting burned, to bad..... for you.

 

Before I discuss your own comment (quoted above) I´d like to address an example of GMB´s way of disrespecting the original line let´s have a look at this topic;

http://www.littlerub...howtopic=206296

An official BA Topic in which we have invested a lot of time together with a major part of the BB Community to gather various valuable and historical Catalogs in order to share and make these available for the rest of the community. All comments in there relate to the subject as clearly stated in the BA introduction in which it clearly states we don´t appreciate OFF Topic subjects but Mr. GMB doesn´t care:

 

In addition to these, the Aardvark, the Moose antlers, and the wood beetle head are also different.  And I can make any of these Figure variations.

 

A post from GMB in that topic on March 10th not really a valuable addition to the topic is it, other than promoting your own creations in a topic where it´s completely disrespectful imho because you´re not the one that´s been investing all the time and research that´s been shared there is it!?

 

But it´s not done yet because April 5th, same topic again a reply from Mr. GMB;

 

I've enjoyed these catalog pictures and have studied them as my desktop backgrounds.  Thanks for sharing these!  I have noticed many differences in colors.  I think they were for the most part, painted professionally by hand, as opposed to the production painting that was probably done with stencils.  I want to make the light blue Carp with burgundy armor too.  What are some other variations you Dudes would like to see?

 

Oh really did you enjoy these catalog pictures!?!?! Of course because you see new potential to earn some money as a Robin Hood right, recreating those concept versions which are so expensive you should make them available for everyone for a fair price. Well I´ve news, none of these figs have ever been found out there so far but with you around we probably will soon have great new finds of ¨original¨ concept versions........ IF for some reason those originals might show up some day the first thing that´ll come to mind is it´ll probably be a GMB reproduction. That´d be a f#cked up situation wouldn´t it? Well it´d be thanks to you!

 

Now let´s start quoting some lines from your recent post firing up this whole topic, again it´s been your own choice for some reason so I hope it´ll be worth it for you.

 

 

TGB and I are both American. I don't mind copying his reproductions, but I will not copy his original work

 

No of course not because TGB, who earned his respect with his creations out here being a long time member and a great artists with respect to the original line (at least much more than you), would be seriously pissed if he´d find out you would. And believe me he´ll find out shortly because I´ll be the first one to let him know if someone else ain´t first. Here IronMask´s earlier comment (26 March 2016) comes in strong again; 

 

The "It's okay to steal IP from a corporation but not a dude" is a piss-weak straw man argument.

 

Don´t need to add a whole lot more to this one line because it says enough but TGB is out there to defend himself while Habsro and Takara ain´t stepping up to defend the originals anymore that´s why some people within the BB Community will!

 

Next:

 

Some people tried to campaign against me and even tried to tell me not to use "greek colors" as if colors are effing exclusive.

 

Remember I honestly contacted you in the first place with the gentle request if you could add AT LEAST a makers mark to your creations in case you´d decide not to stay away from original color schemes or clear figures. (I still have the original message with date etc. if you´d like the verifaction) You didn´t care at all so I gave you some additional info about what we´re doing in order to clarify the history and keep the original line pure by protecting them against reproductions which, in time, might fall into the wrong hands resulting in fellow (new) members within the BB community getting burned. All we ever asked was a bit of understanding and cooperation to PREVENT problems but as shown earlier the whole original line is not interesting to you because you only use their value for your own benefit. YES the die-hard members will be able to distinguish an original from your creation based on the materials used and the feel of it but once you have it in hand it´s often to late right and from pics, without a makers mark, it´ll be impossible to tell. But for you the magic words ¨American Made¨ are enough, well if you´re so proud of that than why, in two years time, didn´t you create a nice makers mark for yourself than if you´re so proud at the figs you´re putting out there, that´d work both ways right?

 

Next:

 

With GMB, my goal is to be like Robin Hood and bring these super expensive beasts (for which I pay full price) to fans who couldn't otherwise afford them.  If you look at my ebay listings you will see, I'm not trying to make a fortune on these guys, just get a fair price for the work I do.  It doesn't cost me much to make a clear carp, so why should I sell it for more than $15?

 

 

Yeah you´re the ultimate Saviour of the Battle Beasts and we should all thank you on our knees for being so generous saving us money. Well I´ve heard completely other things..... Turns out you´ve been receiving (some) figs on loan just to make some molds of it and in return people received one cast or so which in the end means even the purchase of the Beasts didn´t cost you single $ but the profit you´re making out of those molds add up quite a bit don´t you think? If you can make a Clear Carp for $15 than why are your LB listed for such insane prices if you got them casted in molds that´re almost free for you!? $70 or something for one of your LB reproductions is pretty high when you know the back ground story don´t you think? It might not feel like a fortune to you but how many Beasts can you pull from a mold? Not really a noble gesture, to fellow collectors, I´d say and your self declared Robin Hood of the Beasts might be a bit premature. I´m sorry if I shared to much info about your business here but since you´re not taking us very serious and think you can slander us out in the open I don´t really care, think this evens each other out right so it´s pretty fair ;)

 

But I´ve to apologize because I´m not finished yet;

 

Like someone said before, the people who have a problem with GMB are people who are trying to sell the originals for $400+, and I'm their competition.

 

You´re not a competition to anyone who cares about the original line because those who do have the knowledge and respect about, and for, the original line in the way it´s supposed to be within the BB community. There is a reason for the price of the original Beasts because whether you can, or are willing to, understand it or not they´ve been cherished by 80´s kids and collectors  for decades who´ve been trying to do their best preserving the figure in the best possible condition in almost 30 years time, or at least someone took the effort of properly storing it away before it was discovered. This means these figures come with a history and that history has a value, and that´s something you should know because without that value you wouldn´t have been making your reproductions since it´d not be beneficial enough for you. Not ALL original figures are top $ because that´s mainly going for the ones in good condition since that´s crucial when it comes to collectible items of age. And those who don´t fit the condition requirements can still be obtained for relatively cheap prices, almost as ¨cheap¨ as your reproductions of them.  

 

And last but not least:

 

I find unpleasant verbal discourse a tedious waste of time and energy.

 

You might think so while think it´s only a waste of time and energy when you´re fighting a lost battle and I think that´s what it´s starting to look like for you since you decided to fire this whole discussion up again after over a year and let´s not call each other kittens because you´re on purpose evoking reactions like this right? Well here you have it and it can´t be a surprise you find a White Rabbit on the road because you knew I´d step up if someone is calling me out in the open like you did. I hope it was worth it for you because for me this long message was worth all the time and energy knowing I´m still Battling for the Beasts!

 

Hope you didn´t burn yourself to much, Mr. GMB or should I say ¨Robin Hood,¨ with your choice to post here 1 year after the last reply, but it´s been your own decision, period!


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#56 Rubberhammer

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:31 PM

Good God.

One of you is Robin Hood, and the other is such an asset to the BB community that the integrity of the entire original line would have degraded to nothingness without your championing.

Get over yourselves, and go get a effing room.
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#57 JonnyPac

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:02 PM

Oh wow. I had no idea this was such an issue! Sorry guys, I'm too busy with other projects to really delve into the morals and politics of this, but I will say that out of all of the online communities I've been a part of LRG has been the best. I'm sorry to see the upsets here. I hope it is resolved peacefully!

I'll stay fairly neutral for now. I don't want to burn any bridges. I hope no one gets banned! :(

Edited by JonnyPac, 17 May 2017 - 05:48 PM.

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#58 jkaris

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:08 PM

I learned a long time ago that arguing with folks about politics was an exercise in futility. No ground is ever gained on either side.

This situation is the same

The "repro/non-repro", "with a mark/without a mark" is an old argument that will never resolve itself because minds will not ever change.

So all the arguments do is cause division and bad feelings.

I am going to pull rank here and close this thread. Do NOT start another one.

GMB, Beastformers and the rest of you who are inclined to passionately argue about this issue: DROP IT.

You guys can argue all you want about it somewhere else, but not here, not anymore.

The horse is long dead and has been beaten to an unrecognizable pile of mush.
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