77 replies to this topic

[BaltanII]

Couldn't you guys talk to PlasticSoul about some Critters?

 

At the time I had money for it, they were all gone and I had gotten in touch with him on his blog but the conversation didn't really go anywhere. Right now I don't, and I'm not so certain after all the "last chance!" mentions that more will be out there regardless of this thread. Also not interested in a resin version.

[ironmask]

89, man, nobody is trying to turn you on Eric. In fact, I am not not asking anybody to choose... I'm telling everybody not to. 

It's in plain English, in previous posts, how Eric took advantage of a few situations. 

My reasoning for pushing for the public admission, was so that if some newjack got taken, he wouldn't get ignored because of how long Eric has been here. I have noticed a trend of newer guys not wanting to speak up when older members are being shit-heads. That's not what this board is about. 

I don't expect anybody to hate Eric over this, but to attempt to vilify those that he has taken advantage of because they won't share all of the particulars? Come on, man. That's sucky.

 

As for Deadface and Hell Turtle... They are not gone forever. Those two characters are my babies, above all else I have done. You will see the original Big Daddy Hell Turtle, DHT, and new Hell Turtle products in the future. Same for Deadface. As for the Critters, Plasticsoul would definitely be the one to speak to on that. I know Trutek does rubber Critters and Lee from Bigman Toys does some awesome resin versions, too. 

[Stratos]

As for Deadface and Hell Turtle... They are not gone forever. Those two characters are my babies, above all else I have done. You will see the original Big Daddy Hell Turtle, DHT, and new Hell Turtle products in the future. Same for Deadface. As for the Critters, Plasticsoul would definitely be the one to speak to on that. I know Trutek does rubber Critters and Lee from Bigman Toys does some awesome resin versions, too. 

 

Yes! This!

[PlasticSoul]

I am sure Tru:Tek will be willing to do an LRG pre-order for rubber Crites once he isn't so busy with stuff. They were never about being hard to get at all. There was a week long pre-order for them here once before actually. 

 

This thread isn't about that though so with respect to Eric i don't want to discuss selling more toys in this particular thread.

 

Feel free to send me a message or start another thread or whatever you guys want though.

[ironmask]

I discussed this situation with somebody that I know and trust, and while I am frustrated with the situation, I also understand why there is still some confusion as to what MY side of the story is; why does this seem like such a big deal to Ironmask, when it seems like such a simple and honest mistake? Fair enough. Here's the answer, but I won't be answering any further questions regarding the statement that I am about to make, because I don't want this turning into any larger a shit-fest than it has. 

 

When Eric and I started doing business, my biggest concern was growing the business. I told Eric that I wanted all of my cut to go into what we called the "Factory Fund", and all of my money for the figures would go towards that. It wasn't until I saw the amount of money being spent on high dollar YAJ auctions, designer vinyl figures, and super rares, that I thought "We are clearly doing well enough for me to start seeing some of the proceeds." Eric and I then had a discussion on the matter, and we agreed that I would start seeing a cut, starting with Beetle Punk. 

 

Yeah. Beetle Punk. Last month's figure. 

 

That means, that my cut for everything, including Hell Turtle and Arn Hellstorm, should have been sitting in that factory fund. When all of this started coming out, and I had to ask Eric about that factory fund, he told me that there was one (fund). I asked him further about it, and he revealed that he had just lied to me, and that the only money put back was for the next batch of rubber... There was no factory fund. Whether there ever was,  or not, I'll never know. But every cent of mine from UoV, that had been earned up to Beetle Punk... Gone. No "Factory Fund". No money. My earnings were completely wiped out. 

 

That is an entire year's worth of work, trying to build towards turning our little home-brew figure operation into an actual toy company, pissed away. 

 

As my friend put it, "It's not like he forgot to carry the one, or misplaced a decimal, he took you for your whole line of toys."

 

I don't know if that statement is satisfying to the board or not... But that's my leg of the deal. I am not going to get any further into it, than that. I also stand by my previous statements... I am very disappointed in Eric, and I DO hope that he makes his way back better than ever... But as for the resolution of this whole deal... I still reserve my judgement.

 

-Jimmy

[Strontium Dog]

Thanks for clarifying the situation Jimmy. What you've described sounds very like embezzlement to me, and I find that exceedingly sad.

 

I can well believe that Eric intended to have the money back before you noticed it was missing and that he was only "borrowing" from the fund, but that doesn't excuse what was, at best, an extremely foolish and thoughtless act.

[Metalmonkey]

This thread has to be the saddest news yet after all the shit that's been going down recently here at LRG.
My heart goes out to both of you, PlasticSoul & IronMask. What a really shit thing to happen.

I have always had a lot of respect for Eric, but now I'm pretty pissed with him and sincerely hopes he makes good with this now the ball is back in his court.

I'm kinda pissed with myself for not even asking you Jimmy wether or not you were getting anything for your figures, and just blindly buying from Eric and only concerned with myself- getting the actual figures was more important & I should have thought more about what it took for me to get them.

I'll clarify just for a tic. I ordered 2 full sets of GPK series 2 figures, a red crite, a few grim Jims, an sd rick and some UoV and Gorewads.
I got the Gorewads and UoV free with my order, if i remember correctly, and at the time I was happy about it, but in retrospect I should've known that nothing comes for free (especially with indie toys, and the amount of work involved in producing them) and that someone would end up bearing the cost or even (as in this case) missing their cut in the share altogether. That peeves me to no end.

I'd like to try and do my part if possible. Jimmy, I'm more than happy to wire you some cash for these figures.
That would make me feel better about the whole thing.

I got x2 sets of Eyeklops + Mr.Oaks, and x2 sets of Gorewads (the first three dudes) so 4 UoV + 6 GW's.

Can I have your PayPal please Iron?

[89cpe]

I must not be speaking english. All I am saying is someone else not ME said about having poor eric circle jerks and it was said about not having the full story. I was simply in "plain english" saying if you dont want us to have said poor eric circle jerks and misjudging the situation than we should know the full story.

Thats all im saying.

I wasnt asking you to tell said full story, I was stating we should know it if you want us to acurately judge this whole ordeal

Im wasnt even trying to argue with you jimmy and am still not. Like I said. I like everyone here including you and plasic. My feelings towards everyone remain exactly the same and im not judging one way or the other.

And just for the record I was never accusing you of trying to make anyone turn on eric

[imperfecz]

And just for the record, I was the one saying that stuff in the first place.

 

And I would hope we are still friends.

 

Just seemed at the moment of posting, the gravity of the situation was being missed. I don't believe anyone wants a pile on Eric thread either. Especially since he is unable to defend himself here. For now. My hope is that Eric will come through and make things right with these situations. And that will be all. Can grow from there.

 

I think there is something here for everyone to learn. I know I have. Ryan, Jimmy, Bill, and even Eric ( more too but....) know first hand how I can be vague and fairly lax I can be in some of my commissioned work. If nothing else, for me, this is a lesson in treating things a little more seriously. Get things narrowed down a little tighter when starting a project.

 

I really enjoy my time here. I truly value the friendships that have cultivated here. The commission work I've picked up from this place has pushed me in so many new directions, I will always be grateful for the creative minds and inspiration of this place. UofV has ended on a sad note....  but Jimmy has pushed me pretty hard in creating completely original pieces. I've been sculpting away at several projects that wouldn't be if these two weren't producing the quality work they were.

[89cpe]

I know you were the one who said it luke. Were still friends and I still hope to come.eat all your bbq some day haha. But seriously I like you. You were one of my first friends here. Regardless of how you feel and if it differs from how I feel. Im loud obnoxious and a prick. Ill take whatever friends I can get

[Czarcher]

I must not be speaking english. All I am saying is someone else not ME said about having poor eric circle jerks and it was said about not having the full story. I was simply in "plain english" saying if you dont want us to have said poor eric circle jerks and misjudging the situation than we should know the full story.

Thats all im saying.

I wasnt asking you to tell said full story, I was stating we should know it if you want us to acurately judge this whole ordeal

Im wasnt even trying to argue with you jimmy and am still not. Like I said. I like everyone here including you and plasic. My feelings towards everyone remain exactly the same and im not judging one way or the other.

And just for the record I was never accusing you of trying to make anyone turn on eric

I know where you're coming from,and agree.

[imperfecz]

Well one day, we'll just build a freakin pillow fort and have beers and food.

[ironmask]

Metalmonkey... What's done is done, and Eric and I have an arrangement as far as restitution is concerned... So don't worry about it, man. I very much appreciate the sentiment. I really do. 

All I want now, is for Eric to prove that he can be better than that, and for the board to finally heal from all of the shit that has been going on.

 

-Jimmy

[Metalmonkey]

Well, It's up to you buddy but I'd be more than happy to. Just trying to add a bit of positivity and show appreciation for something I like.

[ironmask]

Would you believe me if I told you, that I am pretty sure I asked him to send those to you? I looked through some old notes, and I am almost 100% sure that that was a me thing, and not a him thing.

[Metalmonkey]

Would you believe me if I told you, that I am pretty sure I asked him to send those to you? I looked through some old notes, and I am almost 100% sure that that was a me thing, and not a him thing.

Are you serious? Bro, I remember you telling me you would send something UoV going back a bit now, but I tried to talk you out of it and said I'd rather pay you for them (&you could chuck in a freebie with the order) so I didn't jerry they were from you, when I'd put the order thru with Eric.
If that's the case, then I owe you a BIG belated thank you man! Makes me a bit angry to think he'd take credit for that if you were the one behind it, which I have no doubt now you were.

[imperfecz]

Nah man...   I think we all try to spread it around when we can. Don't be angry, don't think that's about taking credit.

[Metalmonkey]

You're right imperfecz, not really angry just bothered I'd like credit where its due.

[jkaris]

Nah man...   I think we all try to spread it around when we can. Don't be angry, don't think that's about taking credit.

 

Yeah, we know you like to spread it around. Um huh. Yeah.

 

[imperfecz]

Zing!

 

They don't call me "Burning Man" cuz I like to party in the desert.........

Edited by imperfecz, 11 June 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[iwao]

 

Jimmy and PlasticSoul are bigger men than me, because I would not be this gracious. I know that I am perpetually slow (paying, shipping, etc.) and I’ve been perpetually patient with people too – but steal from me? eff that.

 

 

I hate to say it, but I believe Eric has avoided a public beheading because people like him and his toys. I think he’s getting off light because people don’t want to complicate their relationship with him. They want their toys too. And that’s not said as a judgment – it’s simply the only reason that can honestly explain people not wanting Eric’s blood.

I think the initial shock of the whole situation along with ironmask and PlasticSoul being gracious about it is part of why people aren't calling for Eric's blood. Eric was respected by everyone here. We all want him to make good on his second chance.

 

After reading ironmask's post on Monday that revealed a little more about the situation, I re-read Eric's post and got pissed when I got to the part about how he would make good on his debts. The money involved here isn't my business, but it sounds like more is owed than what can be made up with sales of old UofV figures and Eric's next figure. At least not within a month, and I think it would be awkward if Eric returns and is still in debt to these guys.

 

I think it's safe to assume that Eric has some figures in his collection that could sell quickly and for much more money than the profit he can make from the figures he produces. Maybe he is doing that. He should be. Relying on us to buy figures we already have sounds like a bad plan for paying these guys back.  

[TheWatcher]

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - King James version

 

I have been staying away from LRG ever since this situation happened. I chime in from time to time to check my pm's. This thread has largely gone under the radar, but I keep up with it. Eric is my friend and maybe I'm biased towards him, but all this blood/pass stuff is a bunch of crap. Those of you who get so angry, were you personally wronged? If anyone has a reason to be angry it's the offended parties. That's it! Anyone else who is passing judgement is doing just that. Eric is trying and it's still not enough. So now Eric should sell off his toys (Iwao) to pay these guys back? I understand taking your lumps, but a public lynching? Why not just start calling for him to be BANNED or suggest he should stop making toys all together or even better boycott his figures? Run him out of business and ruin what livelihood he has. Serves him right. If we are going to take it to extremes, why not?

 

Eric messed up, I get that but at least give him the time to make it up. Other guys on this board have done some pretty shatty things and they never apologized. Hell they didn't even try. Yet Eric sticks around, apologizes and then accepts the punishment. He didn't have too but he did. When someone tries, I believe you should give them that chance. Why? because we are humans and no one is perfect. How are we to encourage forgiveness when ppl are ready for blood. That doesn't send a good message. I guess if Eric had gotten defensive, denied all wrong doing and flat out said I'm sorry you are upset but that's your problem, then he'd be forgiven or at least forgotten.

 

People love to spurt out friendship and community without really knowing what it means. You know those words go both ways. Friends don't turn on each other at a moments notice, even when they mess up. You counsel, you teach, and you support. That's how community and friendship is really created.

Edited by TheWatcher, 12 June 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[PlasticSoul]

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - King James version

 

I have been staying away from LRG ever since this situation happened. I chime in from time to time to check my pm's. This thread has largely gone under the radar, but I keep up with it. Eric is my friend and maybe I'm biased towards him, but all this blood/pass stuff is a bunch of crap. Those of you who get so angry, were you personally wronged? If anyone has a reason to be angry it's the offended parties. That's it! Anyone else who is passing judgement is doing just that. Eric is trying and it's still not enough. So now Eric should sell off his toys (Iwao) to pay these guys back? I understand taking your lumps, but a public lynching? Why not just start calling for him to be BANNED or suggest he should stop making toys all together or even better boycott his figures? Run him out of business and ruin what livelihood he has. Serves him right. If we are going to take it to extremes, why not?

 

Eric messed up, I get that but at least give him the time to make it up. Other guys on this board have done some pretty shatty things and they never apologized. Hell they didn't even try. Yet Eric sticks around, apologizes and then accepts the punishment. He didn't have too but he did. When someone tries, I believe you should give them that chance. Why? because we are humans and no one is perfect. How are we to encourage forgiveness when ppl are ready for blood. That doesn't send a good message. I guess if Eric had gotten defensive, denied all wrong doing and flat out said I'm sorry you are upset but that's your problem, then he'd be forgiven or at least forgotten.

 

People love to spurt out friendship and community without really knowing what it means. You know those words go both ways. Friends don't turn on each other at a moments notice, even when they mess up. You counsel, you teach, and you support. That's how community and friendship is really created.

 

I understand the feelings behind this post but some of it i don't agree with at all.

 

How could selling a very valuable toy or maybe two so he can pay his debts be seen as a negative? Especially when some of those toys were almost certainly purchased with what was Ironmask's money in the first place. I suggested that myself in private before any of this was public. Not only would people be paid back in a week rather then several months which benefits them but once that's over it's so much easier to move on. There is no more reserving judgement to see if he makes good. There is no more reason to question whether it will be done or not. Like pulling off a band-aid very quickly or very slowly. Were i in his position that would have been my first move. That being said everyone involved agreed to a slow payment plan so that's perfectly fine, but someone suggesting a viable alternative is fine as well.

 

Secondly i don't agree at all that only me and Iron have the right to be upset. Anyone who bought something thinking they were supporting us as well as Eric has the right to feel a bit used and or duped. Anyone who thought they were putting a few bucks into Irons pocket so he would continue the line of toys was wronged. Not on a huge scale at all but that still matters. There was a long discussion here months ago about the prices of the UofV stuff and everyone chimed in at it was made perfectly clear that any profit made was to push the line further and keep it going so it's not like people buying all that stuff had no knowledge or expectation of what they were paying for. So no i don't agree at all that people are upset for no reason. Where the money went is important, but where it came from matters as well.

 

In the end i agree with your desire to back Eric up. He needs it. If everyone turned on him he may very well give up on this place and on his dream of making toys. No one wants that. What you need to realize though is that a lot happened behind the scenes(which is public now)and that gave the people involved time to not be pissed off and angry anymore. If anyone thinks this started with me saying forgive and forget once he makes good they are very mistaken. I was angry. I felt robbed. I wanted to post a public witch-burning thread and explain everything in detail instantly. I wanted him to take his uber valuable figures and board auction them that very weekend to pay people back. Karis and Nama were the level headed ones keeping me in check. And just like Karis said after a few days the anger and shock wore off and i actually felt bad for what Eric was about to go through. The thing is though no one else here besides Iron had the chance to get over it before this thread. So a few people here are still in the mindframe we were in at the beginning. Can't fault anyone for that. 

 

I believe honestly when the debts are eventually paid and Eric gets to come back that things will be just fine for him. Maybe even after awhile it will be better then before. He has skill and talent. With a little personal accountability and a basic understanding of bookkeeping he can take this thing farther then he has ever dreamed possible. 

[Strontium Dog]

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - King James version

 

I have been staying away from LRG ever since this situation happened. I chime in from time to time to check my pm's. This thread has largely gone under the radar, but I keep up with it. Eric is my friend and maybe I'm biased towards him, but all this blood/pass stuff is a bunch of crap. Those of you who get so angry, were you personally wronged? If anyone has a reason to be angry it's the offended parties. That's it! Anyone else who is passing judgement is doing just that. Eric is trying and it's still not enough. So now Eric should sell off his toys (Iwao) to pay these guys back? I understand taking your lumps, but a public lynching? Why not just start calling for him to be BANNED or suggest he should stop making toys all together or even better boycott his figures? Run him out of business and ruin what livelihood he has. Serves him right. If we are going to take it to extremes, why not?

 

Eric messed up, I get that but at least give him the time to make it up. Other guys on this board have done some pretty shatty things and they never apologized. Hell they didn't even try. Yet Eric sticks around, apologizes and then accepts the punishment. He didn't have too but he did. When someone tries, I believe you should give them that chance. Why? because we are humans and no one is perfect. How are we to encourage forgiveness when ppl are ready for blood. That doesn't send a good message. I guess if Eric had gotten defensive, denied all wrong doing and flat out said I'm sorry you are upset but that's your problem, then he'd be forgiven or at least forgotten.

 

People love to spurt out friendship and community without really knowing what it means. You know those words go both ways. Friends don't turn on each other at a moments notice, even when they mess up. You counsel, you teach, and you support. That's how community and friendship is really created.

 

I agree with giving Eric a second chance, but I don't really think that the argument that he "didnt have to apologize" is one that holds water.

 

Irrespective of any moral compulsion to apologise for wrongdoing, Eric committed what is very probably an illegal act. An apology that allows him time to make restitution would seem infinitely preferable, as an option, to facing potential criminal charges. Eric very much did have to apologise, because the alternative could be a whole lot worse.

 

Nor do I agree with you that only those personally wronged have a right to be angry or upset. Castigating some people for not being community minded enough to easily forgive and forget ignores the fact that Eric's behaviour hasn't exactly been conducive to a happy community. I think you ought to cut Eric's critics at least as much slack as you're cutting Eric.