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Where did these prototype packages go!?


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#1 Beastformers

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:52 AM

Searching the web I found out some prototype packages which I missed out on back in the days.
I'm sure someone out here most have spotted these or even bought or tried to buy these, this was the story that came with them;

Original japanese prototype packaging for the battle beasts figures , in 1989 Takara had played with the idea of releasing the figures on cards , 9 were produced and eventually the idea was turned down and they decided to stay with the box format , these were obtained from a former Takara Employee...


Attached File  q131.jpg   86.54K   93 downloadsAttached File  q124.jpg   83.46K   105 downloadsAttached File  q115.jpg   98.43K   75 downloads

The seller had all 9 for sale back in the days. (See this link)

Of course my interest goes out to the Penguin ;)
But beside that its interesting to see these kind of packages of which I have seen some pics showing up on the board during time but it looks they've originated from that sale in 2011.

Anyone has some more info about these?
Or in case I might have missed a complete topic about it which I could imagine........ please send me the link.
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#2 lhssenior

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:08 PM

There's really not too much else to tell. One seller in Japan had 3 cases, they sold out fairly quick in 2011 and have never been seen before or since. The initial ones he listed went for about $300 each and subsequent some went as low as $50 as no one knew just how many he had as he listed them week after week for about 2 months. Eventually he ran out and if I had to take a wild guess, I would say they would probably fetch between $100 and $150 today as there's about 5 or 6 of each out there but doubtful that any more will show up.
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#3 Zion808

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:02 PM

What other beasts were in the final release
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#4 Beastformers

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:16 AM

The 9 that were packed this way are;

- Pirate Lion
- Killer Carp
- Sly Fox
- Colonel Bird
- Gruesome Gator
- Leapin Lizard
- Pixalated Pointer
- Pugnacious Penguin
- ......?

Its strange that none of these ever ended up amongst boardmembers, as they look like interesting items to me!?
Or has there been any doubt back than about their genuinity?

Especially now seeing the packaging of the BS I think this prototype BB packaging is interesting.
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#5 Toxoviper

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:07 PM

The 9 that were packed this way are;

- Pirate Lion
- Killer Carp
- Sly Fox
- Colonel Bird
- Gruesome Gator
- Leapin Lizard
- Pixalated Pointer
- Pugnacious Penguin
- ......?

Its strange that none of these ever ended up amongst boardmembers, as they look like interesting items to me!?
Or has there been any doubt back than about their genuinity?

Especially now seeing the packaging of the BS I think this prototype BB packaging is interesting.


Several board members have one or more these these final prototype packaged Beasts.
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#6 WarOnTheShore

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:32 PM

I have a Harrier Hawk.
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#7 Beastformers

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

Nice, so these have actually confirmed as prototype packages that really did come from a Takara employee?

That would mean the Hawk is the missing link of the 9 or are there more known?

Anyone out here owning the Prototype packed Penguin?
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#8 JonnyPac

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:09 PM

I have the Carp. It's pretty sweet. Paid a buck fifty last year.
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#9 Ghost Lion

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:58 PM

That's what I paid for the Lion as well.
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#10 Beastformers

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:04 PM

That's what I paid for the Lion as well.


And that's what I wouldn't mind paying for the Penguin either...... ;)
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#11 yaggi482

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:49 PM

I picked up a Lion as well.
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#12 Glock

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:48 AM

ooo I want one.
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#13 Beastformers

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:18 PM

Meanwhile I've found my Penguin in the prototype package which I'm pretty happy about but with a recent listing on Ebay I noticed the list or the figs released within this type of packaging might not be totally complete/valid since the Blitzkrieg Bat which is now available on Ebay was not in this list of 9...........  

 

For the sake of history and to get things clearified I'd start a new list with the now 10 figures that came on this card but with the addition of a V to check we actually have seen or own them because if there's indeed only 9 which I assume is correct information looking at all the old info about it there might have been one character mistaken that should be replaced with the Bat.

 

- #1 Pirate Lion (V)
- #4 Colonel Bird (V)
- #5 Killer Carp (V)

- #12 Blitzkrieg Bat (V)
- #15 Gruesome Gator (V)
- #16 Sly Fox (V)
- #54 Leapin Lizard (V) UPDATED!
- #61 Pixalated Pointer (V)
- #70 Harrier Hawk (V)
- #75 Pugnacious Penguin (V)
 

Photo prove can be found below so leaving the Leapin Lizard a doubtfull figure unless someone out here is able to verify the Lizard is indeed available in this kind of prototype packaging busting the original story of only 9 figure released this way.......

 

Attached File  q131.jpg   86.54K   18 downloadsAttached File  q145.jpg   88.78K   21 downloadsAttached File  q124.jpg   83.46K   19 downloadsAttached File  q125.jpg   107.75K   20 downloadsAttached File  q152.jpg   88.02K   20 downloads

Attached File  q135.jpg   91.09K   18 downloadsAttached File  q155.jpg   79.3K   13 downloadsAttached File  q126.jpg   73.56K   13 downloadsAttached File  q153.jpg   79.41K   20 downloadsAttached File  q115.jpg   98.43K   20 downloads

 

UPDATE: I remembered having seen a Lizard in this packaging type before and with a little effort on internet I managed to trace his image as well so this means that the actuall original story, hung up by the seller back in 2011 of only 9 figures produced this way was invalid and wrong. So were at 10 currently, which does look like a more plausible number to work with but this also leaves the answer to the questions open since there might be even more!?


Edited by GJNL, 14 October 2013 - 04:36 PM.

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#14 Skullcruncher

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:39 PM

Its awesome people are calling these prototypes and I doubt you'd want hear what I have to say especially since the hate comments I got about the SD beasts and gumball beasts when I shared my opinion - But first do the beasts have the japanese sticker on the underside of one of their feet? Is there anything on the back of these cards?


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#15 Beastformers

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

Its awesome people are calling these prototypes and I doubt you'd want hear what I have to say especially since the hate comments I got about the SD beasts and gumball beasts when I shared my opinion - But first do the beasts have the japanese sticker on the underside of one of their feet? Is there anything on the back of these cards?

 

Fair points. Can't judge on the Sticker since my Penguin is still on its way and the pics don't clearly show the answer. As we might know in time most of these stickers could be found loose inside the package so I wouldn't exclude the chances of these stickers actually being somewhere in the packaging.

 

When it come to the back this is what its supposed to look like ;)

q130.jpg


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#16 lord

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

I only have 1 (the carp) but I can confirm you that it has the sticker under its feet. In fact you can see it on the pic (not clearly).

 

I don't know why but I have always been supsicious about this "prototypes". So I only bought one to be able to check it by myself. I can't say if those are legit or not. If you have any more information about them could you please share them.


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#17 Skullcruncher

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:24 PM

Ah well a sticker on the foot or a sticker loose in the sealed bubble is a good sign. No sticker - not so much.

 

And the general theory is that these were were thought to come out in 1989?


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#18 Beastformers

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 02:26 AM

Thanks for the confirmation Lord! I'll check the Penguin figure as well when it comes in.

 

Back to the story and I'm glad with the points and doubts your sharing Skullcruncher because there's nothing wrong to be critical about items like these especially when the word ''PROTOTYPE'' has clearly been used within the header of the original sale back in June 2011. This is instantly raising quite some questions which cannot be answered directly as it turns out so that's why I'd like to look into this situation a little deeper this time to get it cleared and get clear facts straight. With busting the ONLY 9 story a lot has become doubtfull but it also shows that we shouldn't take the rest of the story for granted as well. I'm after it and will try to contact the seller of these packages back in 2011 to see if I can get a direct link to the original seller, aka the former Takara employee, or someone who can give me some more/other insights.  

 

From my point of view and with the 'knowledge' I have about this line together with the facts that can be extracted from the pics; packaging type, year and a part of the original story, I think this might have been the case; 

 

These prototype packages were a testrun from Takara for a re-release of the Battle Beasts within Japan during the late 1980's (1988-1989) or maybe even the beginning of 1990. Although the first BB came in boxes Takara changed that strategy for this run to Carded ones, based on good results with the sales on Card within Europe and the US. In the end it turned out that this new release of the Battle Beasts figures could never become a succes so they cancelled the idea to launch them again in this type of packaging leaving the fact that these have never been produced anymore so the limited amount that did survive the test of time is now known as the Japanese Prototype packaging.  
Story based upon assumptions...

 

BUT despite the fact we might never even know the real story there are a few extra CHECKS to define to see if this story together with the Prototype package idea is plausible. Because IF this would really be the packaging for a late release of the Battle Beasts it might be fair to assume that ALL the figures in these packages come from later molds meaning they should (?) at least have the C addition behind their number. This might be hard or impossible to check on the Serie 1 figs since the mark to look for can be found on the back but this should be easy to check for the Serie 3 figs knowing these details are shown on their feet. Its also plausible that Takara kept its same packaging company so that means that the same name or info that was on the boxes that was related to this company should be found on the back of this packaging as well. The aging and quality of the cardboard should also be able to tell us a little more because it shouldn't be to hard to check whether its 20 years old cardboard or a type that's been used for a scam in 2011. Here again we have the original boxes to check and relate to.

 

The more we can clearify the more things we can exclude to get closer to the true story.  


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#19 Beastformers

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

Got the Penguin in today and he also had a sticker underneath his feet, but of course this was placed over the area that should hold the number and the letter to define which run it was from. This means I'll be unable to see if its indeed a fig from the C run as considered in the message above. Any one else able to tell whether their figure in the Prototype package has an A, B, C or maybe even D else?  

 

Have been in touch with ONE of the persons who had sold these figures on Ebay because it turns out there must have been more sellers during that period. They were purchased in Pasadena CA during Botcon in June of 2011. They were sold at a booth by a Japanese guy who told he had worked for Takara. As far as the seller remembers they were just spread on the table without a box and he bought around 10 of them as a group in which only a few duplicates were present but not more than 2 of each figure.

 

Its not a lot but at least its something and knowing this seller mentioned the 9 figures out on Ebay it could've easily been he made a mistake with the counting or one of the 10 figs was already sold out the moment he bought his packages at the booth.

 

I'll see if I can trace another seller of these packages back in 2011 to verify this story and to see how many he pruchased to get an idea of how many of each fig were actually available.

 

to be continued..........


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#20 Skullcruncher

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

Ok my first point for discussion - the takara logo. The little guy known as Dakko-Chan. Due to the logo not being acceptable in many overseas countrys this guy was not placed on anything produced by takara from 1989. Some toys that came out in 1989 still had him on the packaging due to it being too late in the production cycle. For example Takara transformers - the majority do not have him, however a couple still do.

 

This is and my following points are my own understanding so if not correct please do advise.


Edited by Skullcruncher, 16 October 2013 - 02:45 PM.

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#21 Beastformers

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:16 PM

Ok my first point for discussion - the takara logo. The little guy known as Dakko-Chan. Due to the logo not being acceptable in many overseas countrys this guy was not placed on anything produced by takara from 1989. Some toys that came out in 1989 still had him on the packaging due to it being too late in the production cycle. For example Takara transformers - the majority do not have him, however a couple still do.

 

This is and my following points are my own understanding so if not correct please do advise.

 

So in your point its good or not good Dakko-Chan is on the package? It sounds as if it should've been removed since its an unkown mark for countries other than Japan right? Based on the fact the complete text on the Package being Japanese I assume its been supposed to be a Japanese re-release only so it not strange Dakko-Chan is found there. It might be a good point to look at but from the perspective of it being only released in Japan I don't see the Dakko-Chan issue to be honest, unless I might be understanding your point wrongly?


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#22 lhssenior

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:51 PM

These are 100% legit. As far as I know, all of the cards in this style known to date originated with a VERY credible seller on Yahoo Japan back in 2009 or 2010 (can't remember off the top of my head and don't have the time to research my purchase logs). The seller purchased all of the dead stock from a large independent retail toy store that operated in Japan in the mid 80's through late 90's and in that stock was a sealed case of these. He listed them all off individually on YJP, the first round fetched about $300 per figure as no one had seen them before and no one, including him, knew their story. the second round went for $150-250 and the third and final rounds went for $50-150. the prices steadily dropped as he kept putting out wave after wave but after they ran their course he shared that there was only one case with 4 of each figure in it. At the same time he was listing these he was selling full unopened cases of boxed beasts, sunburst sets and clear carp sets, all from the dead stock of the same retailer. The seller who put these on YJP has also been selling on their for years with feedback close to 10,000 so he knows his stuff. Zero doubt in my mind there was anything funky with these and highly likely the majority if not all of these floating around came from him. Would be surprised if the BotCon ones did as well. They were likely just a new packaging test sent to a large retailer to see how they would do.

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#23 Skullcruncher

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

Possibly GNJL but the japanese only transformers in 1989 didnt have him so this would indicate he was being phased out everywhere. If they were testing a new line it would be more likely not to have him on.

 

Lhsenior - it would be great to have their place 100% confirmed in battlebeast history but its always good to try and get some facts to confirm a he says/she says story. I'm still checking but is it possible the independant toy store packaged them and sold them independant of takara?

 

So if there were 4 of each and 10 different beasts there should only be 40 worldwide - Does that sound right?


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#24 Beastformers

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:07 PM

Thanks for the addition Barry! This adds a new layer to the quest since although it does sound quite obvious now I never knew, or forgot having read about it, that they were first sold on Yahoo JP back in 2009 or 2010. Like you mentioned the chances of that Japanese seller at Botcon in 2011 having bought his 'stock' from YJP knowing he was going to visit Botcon the year after are pretty big if not the true story. The prices for which they were or are sold for don't bother me to much here because that's not of any influence for the story here but this one line you dropped, together with the dates and source is a welcome addition;

 

he shared that there was only one case with 4 of each figure in it

 

Just for the record you have confirmed this part yourself right or was it a 'story' you heard?

Because at the beginning of this post you also came with some valuable info but than mentioned 5 or 6 of each out there which would mean there might have been a second box in case one box was holding 40 packed figs knowing 10x 4 of each different figure.

 

To clearify I have NO DOUBTS or whatsoever to believe this Prototype packaging is not 100% legit and I believe it to be an authentic and geniune item from the late '80s produced by Takara. And because of that I'd just like to get the story behind it a little bit clearified where possible so that its not just the Prototype packaging anymore but its also the story and the history that came with it since I feel if we wont use the connections and historical fact we do know to get this story straight or at least cleared a little bit none else will or can.

 

So on one hand I'm happy with the points of Skullcruncher being critical about it and comming up with indications or checkpoints to confirm the item is legit but on the other hand it is also pulling some attention away from the research to its origin which in my opinion is a bit more important here because as often its the story behind it that is able to clearify or bust most of the checkpoints or indications requested ones its cleared out with straight facts. As some of you know I'm a fact freak and wont rest untill a story at least sounds plausible with the facts found so we still have a few steps to make in my opinion to get there. But if Barry might be able to answer my question above were getting close.

 

to be continued.....


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#25 lhssenior

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:28 PM

I still check in periodically with the original seller from YJP to see if he's dug up any new gems in his searches so I followed up with him after this discussion started but never got back to it with my findings. I can confirm that the YJP seller who most if not all of the folks here on the board who have some got them from had 1 case with 4 of each but can obviously not confirm if that was the only case ever issued of these.

-Barry


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