33 replies to this topic

[ironmask]

Now, without calling anybody out specifically, I would like to start a dialogue on how exorbitant pricing is seen on/affects the board.

I remember a day when pricing wasn't a noteworthy issue, but with recent synergy between ebay, the board, and the interest of shows like Toy Hunter and the auction shows, I've noticed a trend of members asking for beyond-top-dollar for sought after pieces... But also for seemingly common pieces.

 

I would like to have a civil conversation abou how that type of behavior is viewed by the board, and if it's considered a problem, possible solutions.

I ask that folks refrain from witch-hunting and passive aggression.

With that being said, thoughts?

Edited by ironmask, 05 April 2014 - 08:02 PM.

[jkaris]

I think it is pretty crappy, but I also figure if someone is charging way too much, people won't buy and the person asking crazy prices won't be able to sell them for that amount.

This works as long as it isn't something extremely hard to find or due to a false shortage (i.e hoarding for profit).

[ironmask]

This works as long as it isn't something extremely hard to find or due to a false shortage (i.e hoarding for profit).

 

I notice this a lot, people either creating false shortages, or just exaggerating how limited in quantities pieces are.

I also feel that greed has allowed people to view insane ebay prices (on items that don't even sell) as fair market value, which is crazy to me.

 

I guess my thought is, that there was a period of time when LRG seemed insulated from this behavior. I don't know that there is anything that we can actually DO about it... But I figured putting all of the big brains on one conversation on the topic, might lend to an exchange of ideas.

[Plastichorror]

Free Enterprise, let the sellers charge whatever they want and let the buyer decide if yes I'm willing to pay x amount for a figure I can't live w/o. One practical way to keep prices reasonable is to keep the board informed. An informed buyer is much less apt to be gouged unless of course their willing to pay whatever the price to complete a collection. Is there a forum thread with up to date market values that a board member can reference in a moment and know that yes or no this dealer is taking me for a ride? Maybe such a thread could be started. And with that dealers gouging will find their sales dry up and they will soon move on to other rubber pastures

[Strontium Dog]

I dislike it. Not sure what we could do about it though, as even politely pointing out that someone's prices are steep seems to be poor etiquette.

I can only encourage sellers, wherever possible, to adopt this rule of thumb when selling: how much would you be personally willing to pay if you were wanting to buy the item.

Of course, that's obviously going to work best when it's something the seller collects. But it's a good starting point for pricing.

eBay is often used as a valuation tool, and I would urge sellers to bear in mind that unsold items are essentially worthless as a gauge of value, and to take advantage of eBay's recently added facility which allows you to inspect sold items only.

Sellers should also bear in mind that on this board, there are no fees payable, whereas eBay typically takes 10-15% of the final selling price. I'd therefore suggest that sellers reduce their prices by a commensurate margin, to account for the fact that they are taking home 100% of the price and not 85%.

[ironmask]

 Is there a forum thread with up to date market values that a board member can reference in a moment and know that yes or no this dealer is taking me for a ride? Maybe such a thread could be started. And with that dealers gouging will find their sales dry up and they will soon move on to other rubber pastures

While I agree with the idea of "free market", the real free market is still subject to regulations. We kind of decide what our "regulations" are here, and/or if they are necessary.

 

I like the point that you raise, though, where making values of lines readily available could help curb the issue. Not a bad idea, at all.

[ironmask]

I dislike it. Not sure what we could do about it though, as even politely pointing out that someone's prices are steep seems to be poor etiquette.
 

 

I feel like we, as a culture, are kind of in control of what the common etiquette should be.

I also liked your point abou adjusting prices to offset non-existent fees.

[Draznar]

This is going to be a touchy subject for many, specifically because they feel like their prices are reasonable.

For example, I know a guy who feels like most Beast Wars accessories are "easily" worth $10. I know another guy who sincerely discredits that evaluation. (Myself included).

 

I can't stress enough to people that just because it's old, doesn't mean it's gold.

 

I have had significant help from specific members on LRG about proper pricing for things I otherwise had no idea about. The only issue with letting people work it out themselves, is that the high-priced predators are waiting for newbies to join for the chance at selling high. (I've even encountered this myself).

I think we should establish a community-accepted set of rules on how to properly educate people on prices and, if possible, what to look out for in terms of price gouging. There are a lot of people who join this board who have little to no experience with scalpers and shill bidders. It isn't necessarily our job to protect them, but if we want to keep the community as strong and awesome as it is then I think it is something we should be looking at.

[PlasticSoul]

For several reasons(especially toy hunter)ebay ASKING prices are way up. So are ebay fees which pushes people to sell here rather then there. While i agree in theory about the whole free market thing this board is not free. Karis PAYS for people to be able to sell things here. Staff members work to keep this place fit for human habitation so when someone uses(or abuses)that generosity to gouge other members here it's pretty screwed up. 

 

The only possible thing i can think of to help would be selecting a few trusted members and letting them comment on sellers prices in the actual threads. If we let the board in general do that then all the old grudges would create havoc but a few people who know their stuff and can comment respectfully might be a good idea.

[ironmask]

The only possible thing i can think of to help would be selecting a few trusted members and letting them comment on sellers prices in the actual threads. If we let the board in general do that then all the old grudges would create havoc but a few people who know their stuff and can comment respectfully might be a good idea.

That's actually a pretty awesome idea.

[ironmask]

I think having a small team of members outside of council/not accountable to council (but accountable to the big guns), who are allowed to make comment of that behavior, would help set a standard of fairness in the marketplace. 

A fairer market, also means more market movement.

[Jet-Mech]

Some people are genuinely uncertain as to the worth of what they're selling. To remedy that, I would propose that we have a small group of folks who have been around the hobby for a while and are qualified to offer opinions as to worth. (That wouldn't be me; I think every M.U.S.C.L.E. and MIMP is a $1 figure.) I'd also propose some addenda to the buy/sell rules:

 

• If someone makes an offer or suggests a price that you find insulting, it isn't necessarily meant to be.
• Such comments are probably best off left to private messaging. Airing dirty laundry in public can get nasty.
• As SD said, don't ask more for an item than you'd willingly pay for it.

As far as I'm concerned, buying and selling should be privileges. I've been on other forums that have stipulated that one must have X posts and/or Y days as a member in good standing before the buy/sell functions are accessible. I'm not sure how well that would go over. Some time ago, I opined to John that those who use the board exclusively as a potential source of income/profit should be required to pay a fee.  (The individual who prompted me to make that suggestion has a reputation count of -51 and hasn't been around in almost three years; seems most of them will get the message eventually.)

[Ericnilla]

another thing thats is raising prices is the fact that almost everyone collects nowadays. I remember years back when collecting toys was uncommon and was mainly the younger crowd that grew up in the 80's and 90's (not entirely, but the majority). When going to toy shows or collectable expos you see and wide variety of people collecting, many that just are jumping on the bandwagon.  When you get people blindly collecting, they usually dont study up on what things go for and usually buy at the prices listed.

 

And with more sellers, once they get a price for something, they almost always keep asking that price. Even if there is no one paying, and once people see prices listed at a certain price it give more people the incentive to try to sell their items at that price.

 

Sadly, I think there will always be a sucker willing to pay a listed price, and like Plastichorror said above An informed buyer i less likely to be gauged.

 

Instead of having a group of people posting in peoples threads (that will likely cause conflict and arguments), we should have a thread for asking what items can be worth or should go for.. Maybe have a list of members in the first post that can be contacted about specific toy lines (Muscles, MIMP, Battle Beasts, Keshi lines, etc...

 

I think people should be able to ask whatever they want and not be harassed. But give the buyers an option to learn on the price first, if they are willing to pay for it or not.

 

Maybe make it that anyone selling HAS to link to that thread, that why if people dont know about it they can learn its there as an option.

[Ericnilla]

Jet-Mech has a good point, on other toy forums you have to have been around for a certain amount of time, or have certain amount of posts to buy or sell.. I think LRG is really lenient in that aspect.

 

Heck some forums dont even allow you to post current ebay listings, only ended listings.

Edited by Ericnilla, 05 April 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[ironmask]

I don't think there is anything nasty about posting a fair market value for pieces, in a sales thread about that same item... with the caveat, that the information isn't presented with a bunch of commentary or negativity. I think the key is making about the information.

If people want to buy and sell here, there should be confidence in our reputation as a board, that dealings will be fair.

[Ericnilla]

I guess as long as its in an informative matter. Ive seen people try to give insight on prices before on here ands its started a flame war.

 

Plus we have to make sure the advice on price given is accurate and not what that person believes the figures are worth.

 

I know plenty of people that wont pay for certain figures because they got them cheaper in the past, but the figures have genuinely gone up in value and are selling at a higher price. If a toy line is selling constantly at a current price, you have to adjust for that.

 

Heck i remember when Weirdball wrestlers "WEREN'T" selling for .50 cents. I used to have heaps and no one wanted them. Not people are paying upwards of $5 a piece. Someone on FB bought 9 for $40 and people were telling him he got a good deal. I was like WTF! but things change, and as long as the people in charge can adjust their opinions...

 

Plus we can't assume these people in charge giving advice wont get backlash from other people as well, no one person knows everything, but if it helps just a little, im all for it.

[theGardener]

I think people should be able to ask whatever they want and not be harassed. But give the buyers an option to learn on the price first, if they are willing to pay for it or not.

 

Maybe make it that anyone selling HAS to link to that thread, that why if people dont know about it they can learn its there as an option.

 

If people want to buy and sell here, there should be confidence in our reputation as a board, that dealings will be fair.

What about instituting a kind of seal of approval? The selected price experts could (either by request or by default) put a seal of approval on threads where they feel the prices aren't excessive. This would be less intrusive and likely to cause friction than challenging prices in someone's thread, but it might have a similar effect in that people would come to notice the absence of the seal.

[ironmask]

These are all great ideas!

[DaHumorist]

I'd love to see an established Pricing Post breaking down the appropriate prices for (at least) all the most popular collections (MUSCLE, MIMP, Battle Beasts, etc.)

[Sixthwizard]

Just a matter of how much money people have, I'd say.

I don't have much money. Someone buys a figure for 1500 bucks, I get upset because I don't have as much money as that person. That's all. I don't care that he paid that much for it. I just become jealous I can't afford what they can.

To a millionaire, no price on this forum is anything but chump change.

It does suck when a seller repeatedly refuses to take advice from a "watchful" collector. Very very frustrating. Creates a pile of garbage to sift through, seeking what you are after.

If sellers would simply pay attention to the statistics of how things are selling at the moment, that would help a lot. If fact, if they did that, we may be seeing more of a modest asking price from sellers. Maybe even more .99 auctions.

Let's see someone take a gallon of milk, which is roughly 2.89 where I live, and sell it for 25 bucks... Because apparently most sellers of toys on eBay, etc think they can do just that.

And I say "sellers" as people that sell for a living and don't collect. Not sellers who buy, sell, trade to collect....like myself and many other on this forum. We all clearly have an a generally agreed upon thought of how things should go....

I see most sellers don't care about people collecting.

[Sixthwizard]

How about letting people not be made to list an asking price, but rather make them list the price at which the item sold?.... So there can be some metrics applied to what things are going for.

[PlasticSoul]

How about letting people not be made to list an asking price, but rather make them list the price at which the item sold?.... So there can be some metrics applied to what things are going for.

 

That doesn't work because some people here have abused that in the past with stuff like lying about getting higher offers through PM's or the always popular agreeing to sell toys to one guy then backing out after the fact because someone offered more. There are some people here who dislike other people so much they would outbid them on ANY toy just to stop them from getting it. We have even had people inflate prices by paying more for toys on sale here just so their own private stockpile SEEMS more valuable. Stuff like that forces the rules to be more strict which kind of sucks but it's better then the alternative. 

Edited by PlasticSoul, 05 April 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[ironmask]

We have even had people inflate prices by paying more for toys on sale here just so their own private stockpile SEEMS more valuable. 

This has been a big issue in the past. Without going into too much detail, I just scored a set for $30, that I saw another board member selling for $100. 

I wanted to call that member out, but once again, the whole "etiquette" issue (plus the fact that I collect the line/am a mod) kept me from mentioning it.

Some more, perhaps unscrupulous, members have gotten away with some rather dubious dealings, because there is the expectation that it won't be brought up... You know, in the name of "board etiquette".  

This whole purpose of this conversation, is to try to find away to stop these scalpers from hiding in plain sight without consequence.

[Jet-Mech]

  This whole purpose of this conversation, is to try to find away to stop these scalpers from hiding in plain sight without consequence.

 

That's a damn good idea; scalping is on the same level as scamming!

 

There are two ways I can see that happening. One would be having every sale on the board made a matter of public record. However, there are a couple of pitfalls to this; namely that people who have good reasons for remaining secretive about their collecting would be upset, and that it would be extra work on top of the mods' already insane workload. The other option would be treating scalpers just like scammers: if you're verified as such, yer ass gets booted outta here.

[Behemoth]

I suggested making a rarity guide for MIMP, but was told that this did not work for MUSCLE and raised prices. Would a price guide for toylines in general be any different? I am willing to contribute any MIMP knowledge if needed.