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Wear vs. Injection Error In Color Figures


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#1 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:06 AM

I am inclined to believe that anyone that has had even a fair number of color figures pass through their collection has seen a difference in some of the color figures. Most of the time the difference is clearly the result of wear: the sheen is gone, dirt has made it darker, light has made it lighter, etc.

But there are a couple of common characteristics I have seen in some of the figures. For example, it seems like Red and Purple figures sometimes get "ashy." And some figures almost start to look like there are cracks, or lines in the figures.

I was wondering if you guys had seen some of these common characteristics too?

I want to put together a section for the UofMUSCLE website, but I need to beta test this theory. Unfortunately most of the pictures I took suck, so I don't have a lot of examples. My thought is that this common characteristics are not a function of wear to the plastic, but a result of the injection molding.

Here's at least one ok picture of an "Ashy" Red figure:
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Edited by General Veers, 15 October 2009 - 05:06 AM.

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#2 ChristianG

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:33 AM

By jove, I think you're right!!

Yep totally agree with that one. There will always be variations in any low cost product.





ahem! I think :huh:
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#3 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:40 AM

Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting these are "variations." This isn't like floaters vs. non-floaters or Brown Hair Luke vs. Yellow Hair Luke.

I think this is more of a production characteristic. I wouldn't consider a warped MUSCLE to be a variant, just like I wouldn’t consider an Ashy MUSCLE a variant. I just think there might be a few fairly common injection flaws that can be seen in figures. In fact, I think some of these characteristics even show up in Flesh figures.
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#4 ChristianG

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:47 AM

Sorry i'm still learning General. So slight changes in colour is what we are on about, but not enough to be a vari.

Thanks for putting up with me :huh:
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#5 Greatshot

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:19 AM

I distinctly remember a friend of mine having a Magenta #40 that was "off color" like that when we were kids, right out of the packaging. I'm not entirely sure how to describe the difference other than it was a lot more... subdued than the typical brightness of the other magenta figures. Until he hapened to get a 2nd magenta #40 some time later, which was the normal color, we had sort of assumed that for whatever reason that mold just was a funny color (not having any idea back then how they were actually made).

I still hang around with that guy, so I'm hoping he might still have those old figs lying around in his parents' house's basement or something, and plan on trying to see if he's willing to part with them if he does. If it's still there I'll get a picture of the fig in question in here.
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#6 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 12:32 PM

Yeah, I've seen this with Purple, Red, Magenta, Light Blue, Salmon...and probably just about every regular color. I'm not an expert on the injection process, but my first assumption would be temperature during the molding process, or the temperature affecting the integrity of the figure after storage. Muscle plastic is a pretty pliable material. So I would assume that if the melting temperature of the injection machine is too high or too low that there could be flow issues or gloss variations because of this.

Just my hypothesis though. The perfect temperature + pressure would to me produce the perfect shiny figure.

Another possibility may have to do with mold cleaning. If they don't regularly clean the mold residue from previous injections then the residue could probably build up and hinder the final products outer appearance.

...Or the plastic mixture was off. :huh:

Edited by Universal Ruler Supreme, 15 October 2009 - 12:32 PM.

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#7 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 12:44 PM

I'm not a Wikipedia fan - but I'm pretty limited in my injection molding expertise, which is why I was looking at this list of defects. Some of these figure "defects", based on my understanding of the examples, could be:
  • Color streaks = Localized change of color/colour= Masterbatch isn't mixing properly, or the material has run out and it's starting to come through as natural only. Previous colored material "dragging" in nozzle or check valve.
  • Flow marks/lines = Directionally "off tone" wavy lines or patterns = Injection speeds too slow (the plastic has cooled down too much during injection, injection speeds must be set as fast as you can get away with at all times)
It's probably a case of two or three things being wrong - once one thing happens, it seems more likely that some of the other things will happen too.
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#8 jmckinnon316

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:29 AM

Hey there,

This thread seems to have gone cold a while back but wondered if there's still a wish to collect information? the reason I ask is that I got a great bunch of figures through from Sherrie and the varying shades of Salmon are pretty incredible. I am sure anyone with a large number of coloured figures has seen these too but couldn't hurt to have it documented :)

Cheers
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#9 walker13.1

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:02 AM

Hey there,

This thread seems to have gone cold a while back but wondered if there's still a wish to collect information? the reason I ask is that I got a great bunch of figures through from Sherrie and the varying shades of Salmon are pretty incredible. I am sure anyone with a large number of coloured figures has seen these too but couldn't hurt to have it documented :)

Cheers
John


Check out the link below. You'll see a couple of good links by Veers.

http://blog.uofmuscle.com/?s=factory+errors
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#10 jmckinnon316

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:36 AM

Check out the link below. You'll see a couple of good links by Veers.

http://blog.uofmuscle.com/?s=factory+errors


Hi Vette

Yep I have read through all of that a while back, just wondered whether it was still of any interest to anyone or in particular to Gen Veers for UofM. I am not classing these as factory errors, my thoughts are that it's just the effect of time, ageing, lighting, dirt on a specific colour of MUSCLE or perhaps a slight variation in the colours used across different BANDAI factories - just thinking out loud!!

:)

Many Thanks for the reply
John
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#11 Guest_General Veers_*

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 08:11 AM

I think there's probably something to the somewhat standard differences we see in figures. However, it might be impossible to ever fully document. For example, the "ashy" figure above doesn't show up as ashy in the picture (although part of that may have been bad picture taking).

If someone sent me that picture I might just think it was a dirty or worn figure. Many of these figures have to be seen in person.

Plus, who's to know what is factory error and what is simple plastic deterioration? If a figure is warped or bent, it's a little easier to make that call. But what if the figure isn't shiny? Is it the plastic, is it fading, is it something else?

I think there might be some value to documenting some standard patterns we see in MUSCLE figures. But it would really have to be a consensus activity with a lot of discussion. I don't think most collectors would want to put in the time and/or effort.

And to some degree, I don't blame them. This isn't like cracking the color code. The end product would be an FYI and nothing more. The "types" would just be informative, like knowing about "frosting" on vintage Star Wars figures. Its not something that could ever be considered a variant.
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#12 jkaris

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:39 AM

My take on these has always been that maybe there was something slightly different in the chemical makeup of the plastic or other stuff used in the process, that over years deteriorates the finish of the rubber. Or maybe the mold was too hot at certain points? Just some ideas.

I have never seen one in package, but what I have also seen is figures that have ashy spots over what appear to be molding creases. is a great example of this. On his chest, on some there is a mild crease and usually above that crease is the difference in the plastic finish. Below is glossy, above is ashen.
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#13 walker13.1

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:05 AM

Hi Vette

Yep I have read through all of that a while back, just wondered whether it was still of any interest to anyone or in particular to Gen Veers for UofM. I am not classing these as factory errors, my thoughts are that it's just the effect of time, ageing, lighting, dirt on a specific colour of MUSCLE or perhaps a slight variation in the colours used across different BANDAI factories - just thinking out loud!!

:)

Many Thanks for the reply
John


Have you seen the story of TGB's Green Hulk find? If not, here you are. I think NoBody is the current owner of that, but he hasn't been on here for a long while.

http://nathansmuscleblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/factory-errors.html

Edited by vette88, 04 May 2011 - 10:48 AM.

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#14 Universal Ruler Supreme

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:18 AM

I have never seen one in package, but what I have also seen is figures that have ashy spots over what appear to be molding creases. is a great example of this. On his chest, on some there is a mild crease and usually above that crease is the difference in the plastic finish. Below is glossy, above is ashen.


I've seen this too. In some cases just a small area of the figure, like a pectoral is ashy but the rest is smooth, but not necessarily Glossy. Could possibly be due to reheating previously heated plastic during the injection process. Like burning the bottom of a pot of Hamburger Helper and then scraping the bottom while stirring.... guess that makes sense. :unsure:
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#15 ShadowContact

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:23 PM

I would guess its either Moisture or just a horrible mixture at the chemical level of certain batches of the plastic pellets. If any of you have the Transmetal Megatron from Beast Wars look at him, all that Coppery colored plastic was horribly made.
On the other hand It could be the ashy spots are from incorrectly stored pellets or re-grind. If you dont keep the plastic film wrap on them or fail to re-wrap after using some, and just store the gaylord box off to a side the plastic will collect moisture. The moisture is incredibly easy to spot on sheet plastic after molding, It leaves an obvious bubbly texture or in the case of clear, bubbles inside the formed sheet.


I dont think the Green Hulk with Dark lower body is a Re-grind burn, just like when you use a lighter on plastic it would have an obvious nasty burnt smell.
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