97 replies to this topic

[bobsinbobsled]

Okay, I've begun working on writing an English adaptation of the classic Kinnikuman series. I'm not exactly sure how to handle some stuff in it, so I figured I'd ask here.

I'm going to be doing a sort of Shin-Chan kind of deal with it, but similar to the Ultimate Muscle Dub as well. It'll be full of slapstick humor, and very punny. Mostly, I'm going to start by trying to localize some of the jokes. But this brings me to what I really want to ask...

What terms should I use? I'm keeping "Kinnikuman", while having the other ethnicities refer to terms like that in their language... although I haven't decided if Terryman should refer to him by a catchier english name like "Musclehead", or god forbid "King Muscle"? Nice little in-joke that'd be.

But seeing as 4kids kept "Chojin" sometimes, I figured that could work. And I could maybe put little translations for japanese names as little side-scenes. But I wasn't totally sure.

And while I'm ranting like this, should I keep more adult humor in, or should I edit what's in there out? ...and should I add any? Because I kind of like the name "The boner" more than "Kinkotsuman". But that might be going too far.

Okay, discuss. Oh, and I made a main title too, so I'll post that soon.

[Kawaii Kenni]

So you mean to have the other characters call Kinnikuman things like "Muskelman", "Muscle Man", "El Hombre del Músculo" and so on?

It also depends, as well, on what you really want. You need either a translation, or an adaptation. You seem to be wanting one or the other, but are using both aspects.

[TheOrgg]

One thing we'd like to know-- who is this being done for?

If it's for a program and the target audience is us, the 'adult swim' type audience, we've got a lot of thoughts on that issue-- see the 'kinnikuman translated manga' thread (s?) in this same forum-- there's two camps on that. Use the best of Ultimate Muscle (like "Rocky Slab" and "Skullduggery" and "Mace") and then use the original japanese for most of the rest, keeping the more adult humor, and keeping it as faithful to the original as possible.

But if this is a fan project, well, it's a fan project.

I assume this is the anime you're talking about? If not, there's a scanslation group working on Yudetamago's work already-- http://teamkinniku.50webs.com/.


Basically, who's backing the project with cash? A company, or a/an individual(s)?

[bobsinbobsled]

My audience would probably be mostly you guys. So yeah, that's probably what I'll go with-- I always liked the sound of SkullDuggery.

Yeah, I am talking about the anime.

And about money-- I was planning on keeping this something free, and at low-cost. In fact, seeing as I'm only writing it, I don't see any money has to be involved unless I decide to use it for an actual dub.

[TheOrgg]

If it's for the community, I'm positive that we'd like a subtitled release to be tied in with teamkinniku, and to be as faithful as your translation skills allow. We've been waiting a very long time for someone who wanted to do this.

Give the board a demo of your skills by putting up the first episode, and I'm sure that JKaris would be willing to supply episodes for you to work on (assuming you allowed him to have copies of the scripts).

[Idol Choujin Showtime]

No thanks. I have absolutely zero desire to see another series I like get the "Shin-chan treatment". Sorry.

[bobsinbobsled]

Well... it would be like the "Shin-Chan treatment", but more true to the original. Just making the humor a little funnier to American viewers. Plus, I personally saw nothing wrong with the Shinchan dub, I thought it was hilarious. But think more like the 4kids one, except with dirty humor intact.

And I can see how I would be misleading you as I even used the word, but I'm not actually the one translating. I have yet to find an official translator, I've just been working with some rough stuff that's been given to me from the Catalan and Spanish dubs... and before you say anything, I realize they're not necessarily correct, I was just using it to try to see what I could do with adaptation.

[Idol Choujin Showtime]

I'm sorry, I don't like anything 4kidz has ever done. Also, I understood exactly what you meant from the start, and I say "no thanks". But that's just me, and you were asking for everyone's input... weren't you?

[bobsinbobsled]

Naw, it's cool, it's an opinion.

So anyways, I'll look around for a japanese translator, and check a few things with my Spanish translator, and between those two I should get something cooked up that I can show you guys. This may be a task though, seeing as the early chapters were all campy gag humor, as compared to Nisei which was funnier in the first place, and therefore easy to make funny in English.

[Kawaii Kenni]

I think the general consensus that we'd rather have a translation than an adaptation, which is why I said before about differentiating between the two. That's why the translations are appreciated on this board, from TeamKinniku. I wouldn't be so rude as to toot my own horn for my (comparatively) weaker specific section, of the song translations, as due to my exams and school (thankfully, the latter is over, and the former will be over this upcoming Monday), my translations come few and far in between.

But, yes, getting back onto the point. Without speaking on behalf of others, as this would be rude of me, I would personally say that I would prefer a faithful translation, and allow the original show's humour to be used, rather than a Shin-chan treatment. Certainly more than the Shin Chan treatment from Funimation. Even the one with good ol' Kath Soucie playing Shin-chan was better, in my eyes, as it was a bit more faithful.

[bobsinbobsled]

Mmm-hmm. No, I understand. Fans prefer closer-to-the-original stuff...
So I was thinking maybe, since I know people who've done this, it could be dual-language if I get a translator, and have the localized/goofy dub as the english track, but also have english subtitles that are exact translations. But that could be figured out later. None of that should be any problem though if I have a translator, since I can do any typesetting stuff that needs to be done.

But hell, that's why I posted on here first, because it's better to check with the fans to see if it sounds like a good idea first.

[TheOrgg]

Look in the "Works in Progress" forum. There's some interesting discussion on how to handle a perspective dub when your translator is imperfect.

Only a very few things were changed-- I believe two jokes were added or changed (one referenced how 'everyone is a cowboy' and was changed to a Bush-joke), and one was an added line where nothing was happening, and a whole scene that didn't get translated properly we finally got the official translation and couldn't come to a concensis as to whether localizing the 'crap sounding name' joke (Udon/Unkon) would be acceptable.

We're hardcore. If you junk up Kinnikuman, I believe the board will feel you're doing the franchise a disservice-- this franchise has enough humor inside of it that only small details should be added that expand the story or characters (like Tea Pac becoming a Gangsta Rapper and having a personality rather than being bland as anything, or Monsieur Cheeks being French instead of African).

[bobsinbobsled]

Okay, yeah, I'll check that out and see what I can come up with.

Stuff like updating humor was kind of what I was talking about, too. Making things fit in more... like, the line (no offense to StrangerAtaru, not his fault) "It's not my fault our son is the splitting image of a pig... how regrettable", just doesn't have the comedic effect it needs. Instead, my version was "Hey, don't try to turn this on me, he inherited his looks from you!". Small changes that don't really affect the storyline.

And I've decided that to start, I'm just going to write the first episode, and see how it's accepted here. And if people like it, I'll try to whip out some more, and maybe even find a mixer and some VA's. I actually already have a cast in my head, seeing as I have to do something to visualize things so I can hold my attention. Not Kinnikuman's fault, it's ADD.

So, yeah. Maybe while we're thinking about it, you guys can throw some cast ideas out too, just in case. Like, a couple things I was thinking of would be Sketch or Takahata101 as Suguru... just think it over.

So I'll start working on that today. Thanks for your support, guys.

[Kawaii Kenni]

I don't think I'd want someone like Taka doing Suguru. Nothing against him, it's just that using people known for the Abridged Series and such would get too many comments of "OMFG! Nappa!" or spewing lines from TeamFourStar's Abridged Series, or things like that. I'd much prefer people who can act, (and are underrated at that) getting a chance to shine with a series, so that the fanboys don't just [self-censored] off over silly little details like "OMG! the guy who's doing the weird fish lip guy is Nappa!"

EDIT: I'm coming across a bit too critical and bitter here, so I want to at least that I do approve of the occasional added line like that "He gets that from your side of the family" one, but only occasionally. I really do feel that the humour Kinnikuman already has should be allowed to carry the laughs, but if the line can be tweaked a little, to be made better and there aren't drastic changes, then it works for me.

I think also the main reason we may have gotten worried by Shin-chan ideas, is that although Crayon Shin-chan is of course mainly a comedic series, Funimation seemed intent on making EVERY line a joke, at the expense of the script.

Edited by Kawaii Kenni, 20 June 2009 - 06:48 AM.

[Idol Choujin Showtime]

That, and it just wasn't very funny. I mean, "Action B*stard"!? Really?

Also, the script for our attempted dub of Crisis in New York actually had a lot of changes made to it. And no, I'm not talking naming and voice style-wise (although there was that), I mean a lot was added when no one was actually speaking. I know this because I read the script while watching the movie and saw that a lot of lines never actually came.

[Kawaii Kenni]

In all honesty, it will all come down to a case of who prefers what, and everyone having their own opinion. I mean, I take some liberties in my translations, and how I name them (comparatively small, compared to some, I admit), but I tend to like translations that are as close as possible, mixed with faithfulness to characters (which is why I add some zest to the language, like making Suguru's language be laidback and "hick"ish.)

But, yes, if you'd like, Bob-san, if you want to have the songs in your adaptation, I can always lend my lyrics. Of course, I would like credit for it (particularly since some of my other translations have been stolen before now). But it'd be nice to know I'm involved in this, as this is starting to become more and more appealing.

I'm not the best translator, but perhaps I can give the occasional help, here and there, like how a character would say a certain thing. Or occasionally, I might be able to ear a line, and get an idea of what is being said and translate that?

Edited by Kawaii Kenni, 20 June 2009 - 09:34 AM.

[bobsinbobsled]

@ Kenni: Thanks, I do appreciate both positive and negative criticisms. And as far as songs, I could use the help, though I must admit I have never checked out your work. Are you doing actual translations or beat-matched, rhyming versions? 'Cuz I've done those before, and I was working on one for Kinnikuman Go Fight! just today... maybe you could spice it up a little bit. But yeah, all help is appreciated, especially since you guys probably understand the characters more than I do.

And about Taka, yeah, that was kinda an impulsive thing, just because Nappa looks like Kinnikuman. Yeah, being one myself, I'd love to get some underrated guys working with this too. I'd actually like to go for something too, but something small. I'd actually have fun being Nakano, but I'm not sure what other people would think of that.

Studying up on the Ultimate Muscle dub (that's my excuse), so I'll throw out some more jokes today or tomorrow.

[Kawaii Kenni]

Well, my work is actually on the board. It's just called "Song Translations". I tend to stick as closely to meaning of the word as possible, but I also like to make it singable, so I do use the occasional pleonasm, or flowery language.

For instance "Your [something]" often does become "That [something] of yours", even though the only truly legitimate time that translation works is "Omae no sono yasashisa/ai", from the song by Mister Khamen, i.e. "That kindness/love of yours".

I also like to make the words fit the characters, so the verb "kuu" that appears in some of the "Serifu" sections of the songs (Serifu = words, literally "serif") have been given different meanings, depending on who says it. Like I have Neptuneman saying "devour", and Pentagon saying simply "eat". If they're politer, the vulgarity of the word goes down, and if they're rougher, so does the way I translate it.

I'll be happy to look at "Kinnikuman Go Fight", though, if you'd allow me. I do have translations for "Honoo no Kinnikuman" and "Kinniku Mambo" already, so working on the other theme songs sounds good to me.

[Stecase King]

Well, my work is actually on the board. It's just called "Song Translations". I tend to stick as closely to meaning of the word as possible, but I also like to make it singable, so I do use the occasional pleonasm, or flowery language.

For instance "Your [something]" often does become "That [something] of yours", even though the only truly legitimate time that translation works is "Omae no sono yasashisa/ai", from the song by Mister Khamen, i.e. "That kindness/love of yours".

I also like to make the words fit the characters, so the verb "kuu" that appears in some of the "Serifu" sections of the songs (Serifu = words, literally "serif") have been given different meanings, depending on who says it. Like I have Neptuneman saying "devour", and Pentagon saying simply "eat". If they're politer, the vulgarity of the word goes down, and if they're rougher, so does the way I translate it.

I'll be happy to look at "Kinnikuman Go Fight", though, if you'd allow me. I do have translations for "Honoo no Kinnikuman" and "Kinniku Mambo" already, so working on the other theme songs sounds good to me.

For the record, I have a lot of respect for translators who understand that capturing the original intent is far more important than having a word-for-word translation of the Japanese text.

Edited by Stecase King, 21 June 2009 - 06:24 AM.

[Kawaii Kenni]

Well, my work is actually on the board. It's just called "Song Translations". I tend to stick as closely to meaning of the word as possible, but I also like to make it singable, so I do use the occasional pleonasm, or flowery language.

For instance "Your [something]" often does become "That [something] of yours", even though the only truly legitimate time that translation works is "Omae no sono yasashisa/ai", from the song for Mister Khamen, i.e. "That kindness/love of yours".

I also like to make the words fit the characters, so the verb "kuu" that appears in some of the "Serifu" sections of the songs (Serifu = words, literally "serif") have been given different meanings, depending on who says it. Like I have Neptuneman saying "devour", and Pentagon saying simply "eat". If they're politer, the vulgarity of the word goes down, and if they're rougher, so does the way I translate it.

I'll be happy to look at "Kinnikuman Go Fight", though, if you'd allow me. I do have translations for "Honoo no Kinnikuman" and "Kinniku Mambo" already, so working on the other theme songs sounds good to me.

For the record, I have a lot of respect for translators who understand that capturing the original intent is far more important than having a word-for-word translation of the Japanese text.

Oh, I feel quite flattered now. ^////^

But, yes, literal translations can only get you so far in Japanese, particularly as it's a language based on politeness and context. Looking back on what I said, I realise I don't make it clear, but when I say "as close to the meaning as possible", I don't mean literal "this word means this bit, and this word means this bit, and it can only be this", but a general faithfulness, that is instead not blinded by a need for accuracy. Although now I'm starting to sound up myself, or like those actors who are too concerned with "method", so I shall stop rambling.

[bobsinbobsled]

Yeah, go ahead and take a look at Go Fight!, I'd love to see what you come up with. But I hope you realize that if I'm using it, I'll have to do some extensive editing to it, for rhyming. XD

And as far as the 4kids dub... I dunno if we'll ever get this far, but do you think I should keep some stuff canon to the 4kids dub? Not, like, names in some cases, like 'King Muscle', or 'Beetlebomb', but stuff like Tea Pac.

[KinnikuGai]

If this a Fan project then that’s fine but after reading the posts this line scared me the most (little funnier to American viewers)

if you what to aim this to us fans here then id try to be AS faithful as you can the thing is that a lot of anime have been made to fit American viewers and when ever I see a Subb (urusei yatsura comes to mind) or a really good dub (tenchi comes to mind) I feel that it keeps a lot of its flavor and charm and I feel a lot more at home (that could be cos the Japanese and the UK are a lot a like well that’s what the Japanese say anywho) and it be nice for once not to have Tokyo not call New York plus is it not better to show kids in the US other world customs other then there own and here is a another thing that worrys me is this




“It's not my fault our son is the splitting image of a pig... how regrettable", just doesn't have the comedic effect it needs. Instead, my version was "Hey, don't try to turn this on me, he inherited his looks from you!"”.



That fact of the matter is that is that “It's not my fault our son is the splitting image of a pig... how regrettable” is moere funnier then “Hey, don't try to turn this on me, he inherited his looks from you!"”.

And the top texts shows that’s how Japanese tended to do comedy when family's fights and thats what makes it all the better the thing is this is how all dubs start out with the hole “just doesn't have the comedic effect” and then BAM you fine your self adding in your own jokes and giving new names scraping the BGM and adding a sub par BMG and so on


So my advise is keep it faithful you will get a lot more fans that way instead of everybody saying hay its that crap show the one with the guy who has those big lips.




BUUUTT if your plan is to sell this to a TV company then sorry but VIZ own the rights to the fist kinnikuman and I think they plan to release the DVDs uncut



soo yeah like I said if it’s a fan project keep it uncut.

Edited by guy kinniku, 21 June 2009 - 06:19 PM.

[Stecase King]

And as far as the 4kids dub... I dunno if we'll ever get this far, but do you think I should keep some stuff canon to the 4kids dub? Not, like, names in some cases, like 'King Muscle', or 'Beetlebomb', but stuff like Tea Pac.

Geronimo should come back to life with a Liverpool accent when he gets revived in the last episode.

[Idol Choujin Showtime]

Geronimo should come back to life with a Liverpool accent when he gets revived in the last episode.

*cracks knuckles* Not funny... U-Ra-Ra...

[Kawaii Kenni]

Beetle-Bomb: Awlright, lads, cam down, cam down. It's just a dub voce, awlright?

Thank-you, Harry Enfield Scouser Geronimo.

Yeah, go ahead and take a look at Go Fight!, I'd love to see what you come up with. But I hope you realize that if I'm using it, I'll have to do some extensive editing to it, for rhyming. XD

And as far as the 4kids dub... I dunno if we'll ever get this far, but do you think I should keep some stuff canon to the 4kids dub? Not, like, names in some cases, like 'King Muscle', or 'Beetlebomb', but stuff like Tea Pac.

I think you really need to see my translations first. Most of mine tend to stretch out to fit the lines, and often rhyme. I should know, I sing my own translations to get the feel.

Furthermore, did you say you had a version you'd been working on? Perhaps you could let me see it, to compare with what I do?

Edited by Kawaii Kenni, 22 June 2009 - 04:53 AM.