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Batman vs The MCU Avengers


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#1 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:15 AM

So, Max Landis discusses how he thinks a first showdown with Batman vs the MCU Avengers goes down. 

Thoughts?

http://comicbook.com...-to-max-landis/

 


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#2 Ridureyu

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:15 AM

Or, alternatively, everybody kills Batman really easily. Kind of like how in the actual comics, Batman loses against Superman when they fight, or just manages to survive long enough for Supes to break the mind control or whatever.  Even in The Dark Knight Returns, he didn't exactly win, he cheated, got help, and still lost.

 

Batman loses.  Fanboys cry.  We drink their tears.


Edited by Ridureyu, 22 September 2015 - 10:16 AM.

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#3 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:21 AM

You read DKR? And interpreted that as losing? Okay...

tumblr_lmr5klXaPT1qb7645o1_500.gif


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#4 dixiebull

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:28 AM

He is operating on too many assumptions. First, the idea that Batman knows his enemy; Why would he know anything about these people? If he doesn't know that the little casual scientist guy is gonna turn into a green doomsday device than he is gonna need a change of batman underoo's when it happens in front of him. Second, home turf is useful, but this breaks down like all the avengers are just waiting in line to fight him. "first he darts the hulk, then he hacks the suit(as if Bruce Wayne is smarter than Tony Stark), E.M.P. to vision, etc. I know batman can multitask, but still. Is Cap going to stand there and wait for his turn once he see's the fight has begun? Is Thor? Nope...and speaking of Thor. I guess Batman took the time to research what type Polymer will hold a Norse God? They would overwhelm him. The only way I see this working in his favor is if he hides and goes gorilla warfare on them. Sneak attacks...force them to split up to look for him. Even then, we are still operating on the assumption that Batman knows thing one about the Avengers. 

 

This is kind of silly anyway...I would love to see a comic put out in a marvel knights type format tailored for adults with a brutal knock down drag out blood filled scrap between Batman and Wolverine though.


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#5 steverotters

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:33 AM

I'm sure Disney will eventually buy DC and all your fantasies will come true.


Edited by steverotters, 22 September 2015 - 10:33 AM.

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#6 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:34 AM

I think Hulk and Superman are kind of in the same argument: They each have a limitless power set, and can't really be harmed. They've done the Cap vs Bats fight in Marvel vs DC, but Marvel vs DC was decided by fan voting and had Wolverine beating Lobo (so I take that with a grain of salt). I think the best two matchups are Bats/Cap, Bats/Ironman, but really the better comparison would be Bats/Spidey. 

As for Thor, lock him in to the Hulk/Supes category. Hell, any character with roots in magic can just be bullshat into winning anything. 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a Spectre/Ghost Rider crossover, though...


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#7 PlasticSoul

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:34 AM

Or, alternatively, everybody kills Batman really easily. Kind of like how in the actual comics, Batman loses against Superman when they fight, or just manages to survive long enough for Supes to break the mind control or whatever.  Even in The Dark Knight Returns, he didn't exactly win, he cheated, got help, and still lost.

 

Batman loses.  Fanboys cry.  We drink their tears.

 

Your Superman fanboy interpretation is as cute as it is inaccurate.

 

Since reading the comic didn't work out for you here's a clip!

 


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#8 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:37 AM

"A different binding agent, a stronger mix..."


Edited by ironmask, 22 September 2015 - 10:42 AM.

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#9 Ridureyu

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 01:19 PM

Well, yes, Batman's only way out of the TDKR fight was to fake his own death before getting splattered.  Even with kryptonite, a nuke, a robo suit, and outside help, his big victory was surviving and doing some damage.  And that's written by Frank Miller, who loves batman, hates Superman, and thinks that all women are prostitutes (that last one's not connected, it's just fun to jab at Miller).

 

Here is one of many analyses of every time they've fought.  You can finda bunch online: http://www.crisisoni...rman-fight.html

 

 

Most Batman "wins" are ones where he still dies, or needs a bunch of people helpin him out, so... my point still stands.

 

Sometimes Superman jobs to Batman because the writers are busy masturbating while wearing a Robin suit, but that doesn't mean Batman is this lolinvincible god.  The thing is, Marvel operates on a different power scale than DC - even though DC has some of its huge outliers, Marvel tends to have a higher baseline of hero power.  "Who would win? Batman Vs. ____" doesn't really work when it's someone with unlimited power (as pointed out already), so we can ignore Hulk and Thor, because they'd win.  But if you wanna talk about "bullshitting a win," saying, "Well, batman is smart enough to invent a polymer that can stop Thor's hammer and penetrate Cap's shield, and e'll hack the armor in two seconds with his eyes closed" is still bullshitting it.

 

Cap?  Well, it deends.  if Batman is willing to backstab and kill Cap, then sure, he wins.  But since we all know Batman would rather let innocents die than kill his enemy, he's at a disadvantage.  Good fight, but not his best.

 

Iron man?  Good possibility for Bats here, since he's pretty good at disabling enemy tech. 

 

Hawkeye? Black Widow?  They lose.

 

Vision?  We've only seen hom for like ten seconds, but he's already a deus ex machina with an infinity stone, so he's pretty much gonna win unless something depowers him.

 

Everybody at once?  Bat-smear.  Maybe with a few ashes and a substance that looks like jell-o left on the pavement.

 

 

So yeah, Batman is not going to do very well.  And as I said, the fnaboys will cry and say, "All those times bAtman lost didn't count!"  But the thing is, they are missing the point.  Batman isn't a hero because he's this super-invincible god.  The point is that, even though he has an impressive win/loss record, he's still a vulnerable human.  Sometimes he's out of his league.  Sometimes he pulls off an amazing victory.  Sometimes he loses.  But he still fights even though he's just a man.  Taking that away by making it "LOL BATMAN ALWAYZ WINZ HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR" destroys the character, and insults everybody.


Edited by Ridureyu, 22 September 2015 - 01:26 PM.

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#10 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 01:43 PM

I think somebody might have missed the entire point of Batman's "Death" in DKR... He wasn't dying. He orchestrated that whole fight so that he and Clark wouldn't have to fight to the actual death. If Bruce Wayne got buried, and Bats did his thing in the background, Supes wouldn't get ordered out to hunt him down. Supes didn't kill Bats, and Bats didn't even die. It was theater. So... Yeah. Batman's pragmatism and willingness to do almost anything to get the job done puts him over many heroes in these debates. 

And since we're on the topic of masturbation, I don't really give a shit what color cape you wear when you do it, Rid. That's a "You" thing.

 

Talking about "bullshitting a win" is kind of hilarious though, especially considering all of this shit is Geordie Laforge science. Please, explain to me the chemical makeup of Thor's hammer, so that I can compare that to the alloys in Cap's shield and the material batarangs are made out of.


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#11 PlasticSoul

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 01:55 PM

Well, yes, Batman's only way out of the TDKR fight was to fake his own death before getting splattered.  Even with kryptonite, a nuke, a robo suit, and outside help, his big victory was surviving and doing some damage.  

 

So yeah, Batman is not going to do very well.  And as I said, the fnaboys will cry and say, "All those times bAtman lost didn't count!" 

 

 

That is hilarious cause the fanboy crying actually is you and you are the one saying superman LOSING didn't count..

 

DarkKnightReturns-6.jpg

 

The ENTIRE POINT of that whole showdown was that Batman proved beyond any doubt that he beat superman and could have killed him easily if he wanted to. It was both a threat of leave me the eff alone or i will kill you and a way to stop him from being the most hunted man on earth by the government.

 

You saying he was just "surviving and doing some damage" is flat out ridiculous. Look at the damn image of the actual end of the fight from the book. Superman look likes he's about to "splatter" Batman? Seriously? 

 

You actually sound offended that a HUMAN didn't fight SUPERMAN with just his fists.


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#12 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 01:57 PM

BUT FRANK MILLER HATES PUPPIES


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#13 Ridureyu

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:14 PM

Dude, did you read the link I posted?  It gives you a full rundown on every time they've fought.  Seriously.

 

And yeah, Frank Miller's a lunatic, but we all knew that.

 

And Ironmask... c'mon, man, we all know I wear a Moon Knight outfit.  Dare to be different, and all ;)


Edited by Ridureyu, 22 September 2015 - 02:16 PM.

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#14 PlasticSoul

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:20 PM

Dude, did you read the link I posted?

 

And yeah, Frank Miller's a lunatic, but we all knew that.

 

Yes. Did you?

 

From your link...

 

The Winner: Batman, in likely his most decisive victory on the list.

 

From your post...

 

Well, yes, Batman's only way out of the TDKR fight was to fake his own death before getting splattered.  Even with kryptonite, a nuke, a robo suit, and outside help, his big victory was surviving and doing some damage.  

 

See the difference?

 

Your link says Batman won. You say he survived long enough to fake his death before getting splattered. 


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#15 Ridureyu

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:23 PM

Also from the link:

 

The Deciding Factor: Batman is simply outclassed here, with the hero backpedaling from the very beginning of the confrontation and never getting a shot in on Superman.
 
The Winner: Superman, by a mile.

 

The Winner: Superman, showing that the character can be way stronger than many think when fighting Batman.

 

The Winner: Definitely Superman.

 

The Deciding Factor: This is a Superman who is not holding back, unlike most of the other fights.
 
The Winner: Alfred. What a legend.

 

 

...Go Alfred!

 

 

See, this happens every time somebody says, "batman is not invincible.  Sometimes, he is outclassed.  People go INSANE.

(And uh, fair note, I wasn't the first person who talked about "bulshitting a win." That was used to discount any way Thor or Hulk might win).


Edited by Ridureyu, 22 September 2015 - 02:28 PM.

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#16 PlasticSoul

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:29 PM

Also from the link:

 

The Deciding Factor: Batman is simply outclassed here, with the hero backpedaling from the very beginning of the confrontation and never getting a shot in on Superman.
 
The Winner: Superman, by a mile.

 

The Winner: Superman, showing that the character can be way stronger than many think when fighting Batman.

 

The Winner: Definitely Superman.

 

The Deciding Factor: This is a Superman who is not holding back, unlike most of the other fights.
 
The Winner: Alfred. What a legend.

 

 

...Go Alfred!

 

 

See, this happens every time somebody says, "batman is not invincible.  Sometimes, he is outclassed.  People go INSANE.

 

 

Haha yeah and then they avoid every single solid point that is made against their argument like you are doing right now.

 

I didn't say anything about any other fight at all. Just one. Which happens to be the one with an outcome you refuse to accept. Stop being such a biased fanboy and admit you are wrong. Batman did not survive he destroyed Superman and could have killed him if he actually wanted to. 


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#17 PlasticSoul

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:31 PM

Even in The Dark Knight Returns, he didn't exactly win, he cheated, got help, and still lost.

 

Batman loses.  Fanboys cry.  We drink their tears.

 

 

Nuff' said.


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#18 Ridureyu

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:32 PM

Are we fighting the same argument here?  

 

MY ARGUMENT: Batman does not win every fight. In fact, he loses some, and has lost plenty.  Sometimes he is outclassed.  Against Superman, he loses most of the time, and sometimes squeaks out a moral victory by cheating.

YOUR ARGUMENT:  (Please fill this in)

 

Also, I drink your tears. Allllll your tears :D


Edited by Ridureyu, 22 September 2015 - 02:33 PM.

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#19 PlasticSoul

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:36 PM

Dude for effs sake. 

 

Look. Up.

 

You said in DKR he cheated and lost.

 

I said he won. Cause he won. It's fact. Not even up for debate. 


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#20 Ridureyu

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:43 PM

I suggest pistols at dawn.


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#21 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:59 PM

Sounds like pretty much every breakfast I've ever eaten.


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#22 plasticfiend

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 04:07 PM

LMAO - it's conversations like that are  the reason I don't miss managing a comic book store!!  ; )

 

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#23 PlasticSoul

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 05:03 PM

LMAO - it's conversations like that are  the reason I don't miss managing a comic book store!!  ; )

 

PF

 

Yeah i agree.

 

Some people are just too close-minded to bother with.


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#24 ironmask

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:14 PM

What? I like eating handguns. Don't judge me.


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#25 steverotters

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:48 PM

Anyone from the MCU could take out Batman, even Ant-Man.  Hell, Rocket Raccoon would give him space fleas or, you know, shoot him in the face. 

 

classic:

 


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