29 replies to this topic

[dankingery]

i would agree with all of that except for the common price. maybe i didn't get your exact meaning or maybe you were detailed enough, but shouldn't it be said that $.25 - $1 is a good price range?

[Black Hole Sunshine]

i would agree with all of that except for the common price. maybe i didn't get your exact meaning or maybe you were detailed enough, but shouldn't it be said that $.25 - $1 is a good price range?

.25 each for common colors is a steal on eBay, but expect all color lots to go for roughly 2x as much as flesh. He's saying don't pay over $1 each for a lot with all common colors in it. Then you're just wasting your money. I've always bought and sold common colors from others on the board for $1 each. It's a fair price for a single figure.

[Tortle]

A few thoughts:

1) This would obviously be a daunting task, and the value of individual MUSCLEs might be nearly impossible to determine. To truly ascertain the value of these MUSCLEs, whoever administers the price guide would have stay frosty and keep track of a lot of MUSCLE auctions. As you mentioned, as more of these figures pop up on the Net, their value changes. Also, parsing out the value of the "rare" figure in a MUSCLE lot would be pretty arbitrary. And what about auctions in which neither the buyer nor the seller knows he has a rare figure, and the auction goes for dirt cheap? Which leads me to number 2:

2) Are the Rare and Outrageous figures really worth that much, or are a handful of collectors driving the market prices to unnatural proportions? I mean, if only a half-dozen collectors are willing to pay $100 for a figure, but everybody else would pay $5, is that figure really worth $100 or $5? And if those 6 big spenders give up MUSCLE collecting, the figure's value would absolutely plummet. Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the old days when MUSCLE collecting was less about value and more about fun, but I do think this is a legitimate concern.

[Black Hole Sunshine]

2) Are these figures really worth this much, or are a handful of collectors driving the market prices to unnatural proportions? I mean, if only a half-dozen collectors are willing to pay $100 for a figure, but everybody else would pay $5, is that figure really worth $100 or $5? And if those 6 big spenders give up MUSCLE collecting, the figure's value would absolutely plummet. Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the old days when MUSCLE collecting was less about value and more about fun, but I do think this is a legitimate concern.

I vote for this one makes perfect sense to me

[Starman]

Great topic Veers

If there is a forthcoming guide on the way will the number and colour of each muscle be in each category similar to which you've posted above. You don't need to have every single muscle of course, just for the desirable/uncommon and rare. As any not in these categories will fall under common prices. Maybe devise some sort of pricing chart or table. Though thinking about it, it sounds like a bit of work. But it would make sense, as other toy hobbies have collecting price guides.

[dankingery]

A few thoughts:

1) This would obviously be a daunting task, and the value of individual MUSCLEs might be nearly impossible to determine. To truly ascertain the value of these MUSCLEs, whoever administers the price guide would have stay frosty and keep track of a lot of MUSCLE auctions. As you mentioned, as more of these figures pop up on the Net, their value changes. Also, parsing out the value of the "rare" figure in a MUSCLE lot would be pretty arbitrary. And what about auctions in which neither the buyer nor the seller knows he has a rare figure, and the auction goes for dirt cheap? Which leads me to number 2:

2) Are the Rare and Outrageous figures really worth that much, or are a handful of collectors driving the market prices to unnatural proportions? I mean, if only a half-dozen collectors are willing to pay $100 for a figure, but everybody else would pay $5, is that figure really worth $100 or $5? And if those 6 big spenders give up MUSCLE collecting, the figure's value would absolutely plummet. Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the old days when MUSCLE collecting was less about value and more about fun, but I do think this is a legitimate concern.

both exellent points. i know i keep my eye on certain ebay auctions because i want to know what others are willing to pay. but keeping track of everything and then trying to figure out the "value" of the figures bought could be quite the task indeed.

for your second point, shouldn't we be the ones who are setting the prices. after all this is our hobby/community. i know not every collector is on here, but maybe we can start trying to get them on here. we can watch auctions and invite winners to the forum if they're not already on here. it'll be like the union of muscle collectors. with the majority of collectors here maybe we can keep the prices down through education of newer collectors so they don't go hog wild and spend $500 on a flesh #62 just because the damn ebay listing says rare. everything is rare on ebay! ugh.. feel free if to delete my post if you feel my rant has added nothing.

[Tortle]

with the majority of collectors here maybe we can keep the prices down through education of newer collectors so they don't go hog wild and spend $500 on a flesh #62 just because the damn ebay listing says rare.

I agree that a price guide of some sort would be helpful to newbie collectors so they don't get scammed. But I'm actually talking about collectors on this forum who pay hundreds of dollars for the figures that are perceived to be rare. I hope I don't seem judgmental, but it seems like there are only a handful of collectors would actually pay those prices for Rare and Outrageous figures. I don't think the price estimates are incorrect, because there are some people who would pay that much... but those people are very few.

So, if only two people would pay $100 for a salmon 165 while everyone else would only pay $5, is it really worth $100? Or is it worth $100 to only those two people?

On the other hand, if we adopt an eBay-esque mentality, then an item is worth only what two people are willing to pay for it. So in that case, it would be worth $100.

[Black Hole Sunshine]

What everyone says makes such perfect sense. I think if certain people weren't after instant gratification, the prices would drop a bit (or a lot). What everyone (including myself sometimes) needs to realize, is that more will come around. We've just seen 2 purple claws in one week! You can't expect to aquire an entire set of colored muscles in one month's time, and most of the guys with huge collections have been doing it for years. Greed has been the driving force behind muscle prices being off the charts recently in my honest opinion. Spending thousands and thousands of dollars a month on muscles is the direct road to burning out, and at that time you better hope someone is as willing to overspend as you were to begin with, or you may end up being out a lot of money.

Edited by Black Hole Sunshine, 18 June 2008 - 02:42 PM.

[TheOrgg]

I think the general prices posted in the 'must have links' section are sufficient.

MUSCLES arn't worth a buck each.

Even the mass-produced 'rare' stuff.

Now the non-poster, non-cross items...? I dont' know. A guide that just has those and states how rare they are might be interesting.

[NoBody]

My opinion:

Something is only worth as much as somebody else is willing to pay for it.

[Jet-Mech]

Some good points have been brought up here. As for the first point that Nate made, it's a nice thought, but whoever attempts that undertaking can pretty much forget having a life outside of tracking sales, auctions, and such. As for his second point, I honestly feel that a small number of people are driving the prices up to these ridiculous levels. But Dan got it right when he said that spending these ridiculous prices on M.U.S.C.L.E. is the road to burnout. When these guys lose interest, the prices will fall.

Keep in mind, too, that Flea-Gay is not always a reliable indicator of value. I follow collector cars, too, and believe me, the really choice examples don't go anywhere near eBay Motors. I'm pretty sure the same holds true for super-rares, and maybe the highly desirable color figures--they'd be more likely to be traded privately.

Really, value boils down to supply and demand and the willingness of the buyer to accept the sellers asking price, and the willingness of the seller to accept the buyer's offer. The Claw isn't one of my top 10 sculpts, so I simply can't justify paying that kind of money for one. A purple Claw is worth maybe $5 to me.

[NoBody]

I am just the opposite. #153 has been my favorite figure since I was a child, my wife will tell you I'm still a child when it comes to MUSCLES. I would and have paid extra for said figure. I think I have a 7 or 8 flesh claws, plus colored ones as well. It makes it really hard to sell all the flesh sets I have when I can't bring my self to part with the claw.

[NamaNiku]

Someone needs to sculpt and mint keshi of the Legends, Admins and Referees.

They could be based on their avatars' or actual likenesses. I bet a salmon colored General Veers would go for at least $150 on eBay .

Edited by uoozuman, 18 June 2008 - 07:51 PM.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

I actually think the first category of colored muscles Veers listed should be worth only like .50 cents at the MOST. Especially when it comes to the first group of colored figs like Red, Dark Blue, and Purple that are ridiculously common. The only time one should really pay a dollar or more is if they REALLY want that figure personally.

Muscle figures in general as far as commons are NOT worth more than .50 cents. They can be virtually found in a millisecond. If you went through Soupie's site and made a list of just the common figures, and then listed them here in the need toys section, I'm sure within the week you would have 90% of the ones you listed. They are just ridiculously common, usually even colored figs.

As far as Desirable, it can have two meanings. Maybe a collector really wants a green Sunshine fig. He may discern this figure as desirable to himself and gladly pay $5 to $10 bucks. However to a person trying to complete a full color set desirable may mean all uncommon colored figures, and he would pay this per figure whether he likes the sculpt or not.

Rare is a different story, and sometimes collides with desire. You can have a common colored Claw that will be considered rare to collectors cause most collectors hoard these figures for cool factor, it's hard to get one cause everyone might bid on it. But there are genuine Rare figures where price should be determined by the buyer. As with Veers example of Yak Face, these figures may be area specific, alot of "RARE" colors have been found in Canadian auctions. There really shouldn't be a set price for these, so Market and desire should dictate value.

The outrageous....I don't understand this category, and think this should be reserved for DESIRABLE figures where there are only a Few examples known to exist. Reserved for Super Rare figures maybe. I think it is COMPLETELY ridiculous that anyone would pay $500 bucks for a Purple Claw, but I feel that way about BHS and such figs as well. demand will always cause the value of these to fluctuate, but I don't think any of these figures are worth anywhere near these values.

[dankingery]

Someone needs to sculpt and mint keshi of the Legends, Admins and Referees.

They could be based on their avatars' or actual likenesses. I bet a salmon colored General Veers would go for at least $150 on eBay .

people would just use the general veers sculpts for their voodoo doll rituals..

[doc_moore_j]

Personally, as far as prices go. Unless it is a SR, or a figure which I really like (Goriki or claw for example) I wont spend much more than 40-50 cents each. I really dont see what the obsession is with the rare colors. Like someone has said before, its all what the buyer is willing to pay, and some more than other, but I could never rationalize spending more than $10 for a common figure that nobody likes just to have it in another color.

[doc_moore_j]

hahaha you can say that again. effing computer.

[Soupie]

And that, kids, is why you shouldn't masturbate and type on the computer at the same time.

[Jet-Mech]

Having said all of this there is simply one driving factor for prices – impatience. Aside from the SR’s, the rest will turn up. They were mass produced toys.

Exactly. The Alex scenarios were right-on, too.

[NoBody]

First, are NoBody and Phillymadison the same person?! Didn’t he have that same mantra?

No we are not the same person. I am NoBody, or for those that haven't figured it out yet, Marvin2000.

[Jet-Mech]

I am NoBody, or for those that haven't figured it out yet, Marvin2000.

Not trying to come across as an ass here...but did you ever find a purple Claw?

[NoBody]

I am NoBody, or for those that haven't figured it out yet, Marvin2000.

Not trying to come across as an ass here...but did you ever find a purple Claw?

waiting to bid on the one currently listed on ebay. Bellatrix outbid me on the last one.