Super Rare Figures (SC, SHA, BHS, DM, DE), The Official Discussion Thread Options

[General Veers]

Below are a bunch of important starter threads and links. Please read these before posting.

Websites Coverage of the Super Rares
Nate’s M.U.S.C.L.E. Page
- Highlights the Super Rare figures with quotes from the owners, plus questions the reasons for such scarcity.

Rare M.U.S.C.L.E. Stuff
- Highlights the Super Rare Figures and offers possible explanations, plus offers some researched history about M.U.S.C.L.E.

Darrin's MUSCLE Dojo (Original MPS)
- Highlights rare MUSCLE items, but doesn’t address the Super Rares.


AKIA Threads
One of the initial discussions about BHS (July 16, 2002)

Doc Moore J, Tortle, Jkaris, and many more discuss the SR plastic (September 12, 2002)

Drunken Master is found (March 7, 2003)

Arforbes gets BHS for $300 by contacting seller on eBay (March 7, 2003)

The AKIA Super Rare FAQ thread (March 13, 2005)

Super Rare discussion (June 3, 2003)

Some guessing about Super Rare molding & number of Super Rares (July 9, 2003)

Long discussion about possible origins of the Super Rares (July 10, 2003)

Dark Emperor is found for the first time (May 20, 2004)

BHS is bought by Arforbes/Yapiel - People are shocked @ $910 (January 8, 2005)
-At the time Arforbes pretended he wasn’t Yapiel.

Double Thread About $910 BHS (Jauary 11, 2005)
-There's actually no good information in it, but Yapiel/arforbes posted a comment in it.

The appearance of a new SHA (September 18, 2005)

Breaking the MUSCLE Code (March 25, 2006)
- Soupie and URS uncover an amazing pattern based on Arforbes Kin figures.

Jkaris finds a Super Rare - Dr. Bombay (April 12, 2006)
- Arforbes bought it from the seller on eBay.

Red Geronimo (July 17, 2006)
- Arforbes finds a Red Super Rare, the first colored Super Rare.

More Colored Super Rares (July 25, 2006)
- Arforbes finds more colored Super Rare figures.



Personal Accounts of Seeing/Buying Super Rares
M.u.s.c.l.e. God claims to own BHS, but no picture (August 9, 2002)

Headless SHA turns up on eBay (July 8, 2003)
-Original owner claims the head was attached by a "thin piece of plastic to the figures middle right hand."

Vilya’s account of buying SC and having a BHS (October 12, 2005)
- He believes that he purchased them from Connecticut at a Bradlees, Toys R Us or Caldors.


If you have suggestions for threads to be added to the list, then please provide a link and a quick synopsis of the thread. I'll add it to the main list above so it doesn't get lost in the discussion.

This post has been edited by General Veers: Apr 5 2007, 09:23 AM

[Soupie]

What exactly are MUSCLEs:

As is very well known, thanks largely in part to Jkaris and the American Kinnikuman Information Archive (AKIA), MUSCLEs are the American version of Japanese Kinnikuman. The Japanese Kinnikuman were organized and released in Japan in 30 sets referred to as "Parts." Like MUSCLEs, Kinnikuman were released in varying colors. However, Japanese Kinnikuman are made of a more flexible rubber material.

From what I can gather, the American MUSCLEs were selected from Kinnikuman Parts 1 through 21. According to a MUSCLE poster released by Mattel, there were only officially 233 Kinnikuman scupts from Kinnikuman parts 1-21 that were made into American MUSCLEs. I'll refer to these 233 scupts as "regular" MUSCLEs or "poster" MUSCLEs. Additionally, there were 2 figures that came with a MUSCLE wrestling ring. They appear to be sculpts unique to the American MUSCLE toy line. Thus, the total number of official, regular, poster MUSCLEs is 235.

The following are a few of the Kinnikuman sculpts in parts 1-21 that were apparently not made into MUSCLEs as they do not appear on the poster and have not been found in MUSCLE plastic:


Brocken Jr from Part # 1.


Mongol Man from Part # 2.

In general, I found that there appear to be approximately 1-2 sculpts from each part between 1 and 21 that were not made into MUSCLEs.

I refer to these figures as the Non-MUSCLE sculpts. (Here's a look at ALL the Non-MUSCLE sculpts: The Non-MUSCLE Sculpts)

MUSCLEs were distributed here in American in the years 1986 and 1987, first in the Pink/Flesh color and then in multiple colors. Jkaris reports that most -- if not all -- MUSCLE products are dated 1985, so it is likely that production of American MUSCLEs began in 1985.

On the back of flesh/colored MUSCLE four packs and on the colored MUSCLE garbage cans there is a note saying:

Distributed by Mattel, Inc. Hawthorne, CA 90250 U.S.A. MADE IN JAPAN. Manufactured by Bandai.

Thanks to the above disclaimer, and research by Veers, we know that MUSCLEs were made in Japan by Bandai and shipped here to the U.S. to be distributed.

What exactly are MUSCLE Super Rares:

The Super Rares are by all accounts real MUSCLEs. Because they appear to be real, genuine MUSCLEs, the assumption is that they were made by Bandai at the same time regular MUSCLEs were produced, 1985-1987.

I've taken to calling these figures Non-Poster MUSCLEs because I think it is a more accurate descriptive term. In other words, these are MUSCLE figures that do not appear on the MUSCLE poster.

The Non-Poster MUSCLEs:

Part 13

Geronimo, RED



Part 15

Drunken Master (DM) & Dark Emporer (DE).



Part 21

Satan Cross (SC), Spinning Head Ashuraman (SHA), Black Hole Sunshine (BHS), & Dr. Bombay.



The following derive from Non-MUSCLE Parts, i.e., after Part 21

The Magnificent Eleven

Part 22





Part 24



Part 28



The above images were taken from this thread and the pictures belong to Jkaris, with the exception of the Part 13 figure, which is taken from the MCIA. More info about each figure can be found in that thread.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, there are a few qualities that stand out about these super rare figures:

1) Very few of each has been found (with the exception of SC).

2) Without exception, each has only been found in flesh.

3) They derive from parts 15-28, which were in production during, or after, 1985. They derive from parts 13-28.

4) They come from the same or related Kinnikuman Parts.

5) They do not appear on the MUSCLE poster.

What's the deal with Satan Cross:

Although like the other rare figures 1) SC does not appear on the poster, 2) seems to have only been made in the Flesh color, and 3) comes from a related Kinnikuman Part, oddly enough he seems to be no more scarce in Flesh than other regular MUSCLEs. Satan Cross has also been found in at least three MUSCLE 4-packs. However, strangely enough, the MUSCLE version of SC does not include his back half. The MUSCLE version of Satan Cross is truly a mystery.

Furthermore, to date, Part 21 Satan Cross -- the one made into a MUSCLE (there are other, non-MUSCLE versions of Satan Cross) -- has never been found in Linkeshi form WITH his legs attached. Many, most, and maybe even all other two-part Kinkeshi have been found with their extra parts attached by a bit of plastic -- again, Part 21 Satan Cross has not. This and the fact that the MUSCLE Satan Cross does not have his legs has led some of us to theorize that perhaps Part 21 SC and his legs were molded as two separate "figures."



Furthermore, there have been at least 5 confirmed SHA finds and 3 confirmed BHS finds. Not to mention a few anecdotal reports of MUSCLE collectors from other countries purchasing SHA in North Eastern America (namely NY).

On the other hand, there has only been one confirmed find of all other Non-Poster MUSCLEs not belonging to part 21.

In any case, over the years the MUSCLE community has produced a few Origin Theories in an attempt to explain why or how the Non-Poster MUSCLEs from parts 15 and 21 were produced and why they are "rare." (In other words, these theories were generally not developed with the Magnificent 11 in mind.) These theories have evolved as more data -- pro and con -- has been found in regards to the Super Rare MUSCLEs.

These theories are:

1) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are regular MUSCLEs that were recalled due to small parts.

2) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are MUSCLEs that were produced as prototypes or salesman samples.

3) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs were exculsive figures available via the Quik Promotion.

4) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs were released only in Canada.

5) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are the result of a miscommunication between Bandai Japan and Mattel America.

6) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs aren’t real MUSCLEs.

7) Rather than lumping all the Non-Poster MUSCLEs together, each must be approached on an individual basis, or at least by the Kinnikuman Parts they belong to. (In other words, although one of these listed theories may not apply to all of the Non-Poster MUSCLEs, one theory may correctly explain the origin of one or two of the Non-Poster MUSCLEs, while a seperate theory may explain the origin of the others.)

8) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are the result of a second wave of MUSCLEs that was quickly replaced by a second wave consisting of colored MUSCLEs.

9) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are really Japanese Kinnikuman or some type of Japanese Kinkeshi that were sold in Japan that happen to be made of MUSCLE plastic.

10) There is a high probability that MUSCLEs and Kinkeshi scupts belonging to parts 15-26 were being produced at the same time, which could somehow account for Non-Poster MUSCLEs being produced in MUSCLE plastic.

11) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs are figures produced at the beginning of the line when Bandai and Mattel planned on releasing all Kinnukuman scupts as MUSCLEs. Later, it was decided not to make every sculpt into a MUSCLE.

12) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs and Non-MUSCLE sculpts are the result of molds damaged before, or during, MUSCLE production.

13) The Non-Poster MUSCLEs and Non-MUSCLE sculpts are the result of molds being plugged due to complications with the MUSCLE plastic flowing to them and filling them properly.

14) The Non-MUSCLE sculpts are a result of a Mattel/Bandia licensing issue, resulting in the Non-MUSCLE sculpts not being made into MUSCLEs. However, mistakes were made, allowing some Non-Poster MUSCLEs to be found as MUSCLEs.

I'm not claiming any special credit for creating these theories. If any little shred of what I've written is false or misleading, by all means let me know.

This post has been edited by Soupie: Jul 28 2007, 08:08 PM

[General Veers]

There is also another theory that you didn’t present.

6. The Super Rares aren’t real MUSCLE’s.

While most would probably say this has been discredited, I think it should at least be considered.

a.] Only SC has been found in a sealed package.
b.] There are only ~5 know examples of SHA and BHS, none in the original package.
c.] There are only 1 know example of DM and DE, none found in the original package.

While the owners swear they are real, and we have no reason to think that they are liars, we need to consider the possibility.




I think we might need to start changing our thinking regarding the Super Rares. It doesn’t seem like our current line of reasoning is working, advancing, or improving.

The most accessible SR is Satan Cross. Based on my tracking of eBay auctions, as of right now, there have been approximately 80 auctions. Plus there are the various collectors on the board that have one, which would probably be at least 50.

So let’s just imagine that there are 150~200 SC’s in the world (Which I don’t believe, it’s too painfully low. It would be only 4 figures per state.). Perhaps Mattel was simply thinking of doing some chase figures? They weren’t included on the poster because they were going to be announced later.

Then, based on the success of the line, the marketing plan changed. Instead of trumpeting chase figures they did the Quik promotion and released colored figures. The chase figures were already released, but no attention was drawn to them – because they really aren’t too different from the rest of the figures.

So if this was the case, maybe they made about 200 of each Super Rare. This leads us back to the question, “Why have so few turned up?”

[jkaris]

Furthermore, there have been at least 5 confirmed SHA finds and 5 confirmed BHS finds. Not to mention a few anecdotal reports of MUSCLE collectors from other countries purchasing SHA in North Eastern America (namely NY).

On the other hand, there has only been one confirmed find of DM and one confirmed find of DE.

Question: Are these numbers representitive of the actual number of these figures out there, i.e., are there more SCs than SHAs and BHSs, and more SHAs and BHSs then DMs and DEs?

As far as SHA, there are 5 or 6, correct, but with BHS, there are oly 3. The original one found by MUSCLE God, Alex's forst one and Alex's second (yapiel) one.

[Soupie]

Chase figures. Yes, only a painfully small number of SRs have been found. So how much more significant is it that so many seem to have come from the NE States? I'd say pretty damned significant.

I know almost zero about chase figures, but I do know that there are several instances of big cities (i.e., New York) receiving products, TV shows, movies, etc, before the rest of the United States.

EDIT - Link added to master list.

This post has been edited by General Veers: Oct 14 2005, 12:56 PM

[Soupie]

On the back of flesh/colored four packs and on the colored garbage cans there is a note saying:

Distributed by Mattel, Inc. Hawthorne, CA 90250 U.S.A. MADE IN JAPAN. Manufactured by Bandai.

Note: All of the SRs, with the exception of one (a SHA), have been found in the NE. The SHA not found in the NE was traded for in Glendale, California.

This post has been edited by Soupie: Oct 16 2005, 12:23 PM

[Soupie]

BUMP

Guys, major updates to this thread above. Please re-read and give me some feedback.

Veers and I are trying to compile all Kinnikuman and MUSCLE info that relates to the Super Rares into one thread.

Any corrections or suggestions are appreciated!

[Satan+]

Hello all .
I´d like to add critics and maybe solutions to this tread .
First , all of us are considering SC as a Super Rare . I think a figure we estimate 200 in the world is really DIFICULT TO FIND but not SR ( comparing with the lack number of SRs known ) So , his value is more than normal MUSCLES but less than real SRs .
Second , the fact of no other SR was found ( till now ) in his original packaging is insignificant to confirm his legitimacy because if we are considering 200 SC´s and 2 or 3 known ( Philly , Doc , etc ) in sealed package , what we can say about a BHS for example ( 3 known ... ) ? Of course packaging confirms his legitimacy but we can trust in others features like color , smell , texture , etc . I think no other company could released toys with ALL these features together . An can remember we are talking about figures from 20 years old .
The theory of BHS nad SHA were released in the begining of first wave ( like regular ones ) in a local area ( NE ) and recalled before spread all country because their small parts , is terrific because could explain why they were cancelled , why SC was missing his second part ( he could be released after BHS and SHA incident ) , why SC´s are in small numbers than others MUSCLES but more than SR ( he was released in the end of first wave ) , why SC ( and others SR ) were only found in flesh and why the 3 were no included in promotional poster . Remember these 3 figures belonged from the same part ( 21 ) in Japanese toyline . Coincidence ? I don´t think so ...
But this theory falled when DM and DE were found . Or no ...
Remember, both are from the same part ( 15 ) in Japanese version , both are from the same American area ( NE ) , both are flesh , and both are in smaller number than other SR ( only one from each other ) . Coincidence ? I don´t think so ... They could be considery mistakes ( Bandai and Mattel are large companies but we are talking about more than 200 small figures and an ocean of distancy ) or prototypes released in local american( or Canadian ) area .
I think the numbers of SR we known are VERY representative of all : there are almost the same BHSs and SHAs and I will not amaze if in 2015 , we are discussing why there are only 2 ( or 3 - Black Menrui ) SRs from part 21 .
The canadian theory could explain the SRs from part 21 but not the others two ( BHS and SHA ) . Even that , we never found SRs in canadian ( or australian ) market .
I think I could be clearly , but I search our informations and tried to explain something
Thanks a lot .
Ricardo .

[arforbes]

Based on what figures we have seen as Super Rares, one can assume that the following figures were also made as Super Rares because they are part of the same series...

We have already seen Satancross, Spinning Head Ashuraman, and Blackhole Sunshine...



In the same series, Part 21, as these the three above Super Rares that we have not seen are...



We have also found Drunken Master and Dark Emperor, who are both in another series, Part 15...



Assuming they also made the rest that we haven't seen yet from Part 15, the following figure (Black Menrui) may exist as a Super Rare too...



The following images were found from http://ulala69.hp.infoseek.co.jp/standardtop.htm

We have yet to find a total of 4 remaining Super Rares, assuming that more Parts were not made as M.U.S.C.L.E.s. It is very possible that other Parts were created as M.U.S.C.L.E.s too though, which would leave even more Super Rares out there waiting to be found.

***NOTE (This post was copied almost exactly from my post in this thread (Page 3) a little over two years ago when I was speculating that Dark Emperor and Black Menrui were possible remaining Super Rares from Part 15, but were not found yet. Since then my theory of which figures could possibly be Super Rares has be proven true at least by the discovery of one Super Rare figure since then, Dark Emperor.)

This post has been edited by arforbes: Oct 16 2005, 09:52 AM

[Soupie]

The theory of BHS nad SHA were released in the begining of first wave ( like regular ones ) in a local area ( NE ) and recalled before spread all country because their small parts , is terrific because could explain why they were cancelled , why SC was missing his second part ( he could be released after BHS and SHA incident ) , why SC´s  are  in small numbers than others MUSCLES but more than SR (  he was released in the end of first wave ) ,  why SC ( and others SR ) were only found in flesh and why the 3 were no included in promotional poster . Remember these 3 figures belonged from the same part ( 21 ) in Japanese toyline . Coincidence ? I don´t think so ...

Okay, let me see if I understand you. You make some excellent points! You seem to be saying:

1) SHA and BHS and all the other "regular" MUSCLEs were released in 1985 only in the North East, before being released nationally.

2) SHA and BHS were found to be dangerous because of their small parts.

3) They were discontinued.

4) However, SC was partially spared because he could still be sold without his back half. Still, fewer SC were shipped as a result.

5) Thus, since these figures were removed, they were never placed on the poster when the poster and MUSCLEs were made available to all of the U.S.

6) When the colored MUSCLEs were made, Bandai/Mattel excluded SC, SHA, and BHS.

Questions:

1) Why was Satan Cross not included in the NE release with SHA, BHS, and the other regular MUSCLEs? (If he had been, wouldn't we have found him with a MUSCLE version of his back half?)

2) If Bandai/Mattel recalled figures only during a "test" release, is it possible Veers' research may have missed this?

But this theory falled when DM and DE were found . Or no ...
Remember, both are from the same part ( 15 ) in Japanese version , both are from the same American area ( NE ) , both are flesh , and both are in smaller number than other SR ( only one from each other ) . Coincidence ? I don´t think so ... They could be considery  mistakes ( Bandai and Mattel are large companies but we are talking about more than 200 small figures and an ocean of distancy ) or prototypes released in  local american( or Canadian ) area .

1) DM and DE, both belonging to an "earlier" Kinnikuman Part are mistakes on the part of Bandai and Mattel. Thus, fewer of them have been found.

Well, this still seems unlikely for the same reason it would applied to all the SRs.

Anyhow, cool, I updated the list of Origin Theories in my above post!

We have yet to find a total of 4 remaining Super Rares, assuming that more Parts were not made as M.U.S.C.L.E.s. It is very possible that other Parts were created as M.U.S.C.L.E.s too though, which would leave even more Super Rares out there waiting to be found.

As I was looking through Kinnikuman Parts 1-21, I noticed that on average there were 1 or 2 Kinnikuman sculpts within each part that were not made into MUSCLEs.

This trend may impact your theory about how many SRs are still out there.

This post has been edited by Soupie: Oct 17 2005, 09:59 AM

[Universal Ruler ...]

Above back of 4 pack reads "Safety-Tested Conforms to PS 72-76" This means that the Super rares were removed before National release if they were also tested. The fact that these were safety tested means that each individual figure would have to have been tested right? So there wouldn't have been recalls if the rares were originally promos then tested. This still doesn't explain DM. Or even the numerous small figures like meat. honestly If I wanted to I believe I could swallow any of the figures and choke on most of them. I honestly don't think that toy companies really cared about safety all that much back in the 80's anyways. Or back when kids could buy lead soldiers even. So the recall thing is a bit shabby. Now that I think of it they should put for ages 4 or over on quarters and pennies.

This post has been edited by Universal Ruler Supreme: Oct 17 2005, 06:46 AM

[Soupie]

http://www.littlerubberguys.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=9242

Veers, the above topic concerns a lot of Kinnikuman and MUSCLEs sold on eBay. The seller claims the figures were MUSCLE protoypes offered to Hasbro.

[jkaris]

http://www.littlerubberguys.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=9242

Veers, the above topic concerns a lot of Kinnikuman and MUSCLEs sold on eBay. The seller claims the figures were MUSCLE protoypes offered to Hasbro.

Those turned out to be kinkeshi and a few regualr muscles.

[Soupie]

Yes, and I do feel that's all they were. But for the sake of posterity...

And I was trying to help a brother out.

Gilgar's Lament.

Besides, just because there turned out not to be any non-MUSCLE kinnikuman sculpts that were in MUSCLE plastic, doesn't mean they weren't actually used as prototypes.



Um, basically, it pertains to SRs so I thought it was worth noting.

[General Veers]

Sorry Soupie, I don’t think it has anything to do with the Super Rares. People make false claims on eBay all the time. Once they were in hand, they simply turned out to be kinkeshi and a few regular muscles.

Prototypes are usually different in some way (i.e., missing copyright info) at best they were samples. But it’s such a bizarre story, from a lady trying to sell stuff on eBay, that I just don’t believe it.

[Satan+]

Hello all !
As I said in the SHA thread , my first contact with M.U.S.C.L.E.s was in ToyFare magazine #34 ( june 2000 ) ; in that ocasion , they did a great review of this toy line ( two pages ! ) , in a section named "Toy Story" .
I was reviewing this magazine two days ago and I found some interesting information to us : in the second page , they said : "...A poster released by Mattel in the late ´80s (...) sports 233 of the tiny creatures , but several more were made after the poster was printed ."
I do not know who was the fan that was consulted five years ago to review M.U.S.C.L.E. story ( like Nate did 3 months ago to the same magazine ) . Maybe a former member of this site ... anyway ; but the fact is : the article was refearing to the color or SR ones ?
Do you think it is possible to know the existence of SR in that time ?
Or they especulated all ?
Ricardo .

[Soupie]

"...A poster released by Mattel in the late ´80s (...) sports 233 of the tiny creatures , but several more were made after the poster was printed ."

...

[was] the article ... refearing to the color or SR ones ?

First of all, is there anyway you can get a scan of those two pages and post them here? I'd love to read the article for myself.

If what you write is verbatim, then we can only speculate as to what the author meant. That being said, my guess would be that Toyfare was referring to the colored MUSCLEs. However, Mattel did release a colored MUSCLE poster.

Also, it's my understanding that before AKIA there was the MUSCLE Preservation Society. I'm not sure if any members of the MPS were aware of BHS and SHA.

According to what I know, BHS and SHA first popped onto the scene in 2001 via eBay, when the AKIA had already been established. I don't think there was any knowledge of these two figures before hand.

However, I could be wrong.

So the question of whether someone from the MPS or AKIA told Toyfare about the SRs in June, 2000 seems highly unlikely.

In any case, nice find. Thanks for sharing it.

[jkaris]

It would have probably been Darrin at the MPS back then or maybe Nate. SHA was the first super rare to come on the scene, and the AKIA was under Ridureyu then and didn't really have anything MUSCLE related.

Back then, rares were Satan Cross, The Goalie (found out to be kinkeshi) and the lightbulb guy (found to be kinkeshi or bootleg). So, as of that article, SC was the only legit muscle not on the poster, besides the two ring figures.

[Soupie]

Okay, cleaned up all the other posts to make this one. And they are now in chronological order.

1) Philly wins a HSHA from ClownUnderTheBed (Jul 8 2003)

2) In this thread, Erokx sells a SHA via EBAY. (Feb 19 2004) Philly Madison wins it.

3) In this thread, Goriki sells a HSHA on EBAY. (Jun 11 2004) Goriki had gotten this HSHA from Philly, who had gotten it from CUtB. Arforbes wins this. *

Also, at the end of this thread, AKIA member JUAN links to an EBAY auction selling a SHA. He attaches a picture of a SHA. Arforbes mentions that he saw it too. WTF?

4) In this thread, OptimusGeorge joins AKIA and mentions he has a SHA. (Jun 29 2004) Surprisingly, Veers does not believe him.

5) In this thread, OptimusGeorge sells a SHA inhouse AKIA. (Jul 27 2004) It has a blue stain on its foot. SATAN+ is the winner.

6) In this thread, Philly mentions that Arforbes has the CUtB HSHA. (Sep 8 2004) *

7) Arforbes sells the CUtB HSHA on EBAY. (Oct 11 2004) Philly Madison wins it. *



8) Mr. T wins a HSHA off of EBAY. (Apr 26 2005) In this thread, Arforbes states that there are eight (8) SHAs.

* These are all the same HSHA.

This post has been edited by Soupie: Oct 27 2005, 07:13 AM

[Satan+]

Does anyone here noticed the frequency SRs appear in M.U.S.C.L.E. universe ( or eBay universe ) ?
If I am not wrong , 2003 brings DM to Philly Madison and Arforbes/Yapiel first BHS .
In the beginning of 2004 , Philly bought his SHA , Arforbes/Yapiel discovered DE and I bought by AKIA my first SHA .
We started 2005 with a new and hiper expensive BHS . Recently I got my second SHA and possibly we wiil face a new BHS from Vilya .
Of course we need to considery the eBay era and the fact our community widespread .
So , what can we expect to next year ? More and more SRs will be discovered ?

[arforbes]

So , what can we expect to next year ? More and more SRs will be discovered ?

Most likely they will continue to surface. Only time will tell.

[Soupie]

Okay, I know Veers already has a list above, but for my own purposes, I need to see the whole list in chronological, clickable order. (The scary thing is, there are more threads to add.)

Historical AKIA Super Rare Threads, including general discussion, eBay auctions, AKIA auctions, MISC. threads dealing with Super Rares, and obscure, wishy washy references:

1) Arforbes asks for information about BHS. (Jul 15, 2002)

2) MUSCLE GOD joins AKIA and talks about his BHS figure. (Aug 9, 2002)

3) Discussion about the plastic the Super Rares are made of. (Sept 12, 2002)

4) Drunken Master and Philly Madison join AKIA. (Mar 7, 2003)

5) Arforbes acquires a BHS from EBAY. (Mar 7, 2003)

6) AKIA Super Rare thread is created. (Mar 12, 2003)

7) Veers begins to investigate the mystery of the Super Rares. (Jun 3, 2003)

8) Philly wins a HSHA from ClownUnderTheBed. (Jul 8, 2003)

9) Veers continues theorizing. (Jul 9, 2003)

10) Veers does some REAL research. (Jul 10, 2003)

11) In this thread, Erokx sells a SHA via EBAY. (Feb 19, 2004) Philly Madison wins it.

12) Arforbes discovers Dark Emporer via EBAY. (May 20, 2004)

13) In this thread, Goriki sells a HSHA on EBAY. (Jun 11, 2004) Goriki had gotten this HSHA from Philly, who had gotten it from CUtB. Arforbes wins this. *

Also, at the end of this thread, AKIA member JUAN links to an EBAY auction selling a SHA. He attaches a picture of a SHA. It's important to note that the SHA pictured and the BHS referred to are Japanese Kinnikuman Kinkeshi.

14) In this thread, OptimusGeorge joins AKIA and mentions he has a SHA. (Jun 29, 2004) To everyone's surprise, Veers is skeptical.

15) In this thread, OptimusGeorge sells a SHA inhouse AKIA. (Jul 27, 2004) It has a blue stain on its foot. SATAN+ is the winner.

16) In this thread, Philly mentions that Arforbes has the CUtB HSHA. (Sep 8, 2004) *

17) Arforbes sells the CUtB HSHA on EBAY. (Oct 11, 2004) Philly Madison wins it. *



18) Arforbes (as Yapiel) purchases a BHS via EBAY. (Jan 8, 2005)

19) AKIA members comments about the Yapiel BHS EBAY auction. (Jan 11, 2005)

20) Mr. T wins a HSHA off of EBAY. (Apr 26, 2005) In this thread, Arforbes states that there are eight (8) SHAs.

21) Jax0n sells a SHA via eBay, SATAN+ wins it. (Sep 18, 2005)

22) AKIA member Vilya says that he may have a BHS (Oct 12, 2005)

* These are all the same HSHA.

This post has been edited by Soupie: Oct 27 2005, 11:21 AM

[Kevin Mayle]

I remember when that issue of Toyfare (#34) came out. There was a request in an earlier issue in the late 90's to profile MUSCLEs but the editor said he hated them and would never do it. Us MPS members were disappointed when we read that. But when #34 came out I noticed that it was a new editor and the person that wrote the article liked MUSCLE and gave them a good review. He got his info from Darrin. The figure he was talking about that came out after the poster were Satan Cross, Brant Snell's Futuristic Goalie and the Lightbulb guy. These were the rare MUSCLEs that were common knowledge to the MPS. Satan Cross was pictured in a sealed 4 Pack on the back page of issue 5 of the MPS newsletter (1998). Up till then we only knew of loose ones and thought they might have been Kinkeshi. When this 4- pack was found on E-bay we started to consider Futuristic Goalie and Lightbulb to be MUSCLE and that's where the Toyfare info came from. We later found out that FG was a Ramenman line Kinkeshi and Lightbulb was also a Kinkeshi. We hadn't seen any SHA, BHS, DM or DE at that time at didn't use the term Super Rares. Back then we were just starting to get info on Kinnikuman. In fact back then an Ebay search for MUSCLEs mostly got you gay magazines and a search for Kinnikuman got you zilch.

[jkaris]

Satan Cross was pictured in a sealed 4 Pack on the back page of issue 5 of the MPS newsletter (1998).

Do you have a scan of that possibly?

[Kevin Mayle]

Sure thing buddy.

[Kevin Mayle]

And here is the front cover. I remember now that I had all 36 issues of the manga back then and had seen the character in there but we didn't know his name.

[jkaris]

Amazing. We always thought that the one that popped up on eBay a few years back (and sold for $50) was the first time it ever showed up in a 4 packs.

Thanks for the scans!

[Soupie]

We always thought that the one that popped up on eBay a few years back (and sold for $50) was the first time it ever showed up in a 4 packs.

Who won the 4-pack you refer to jkaris?

Are we certain the one featured in the MPS Newsletter is not one that Doc, Philly, or Kinnikumanguerto now owns?

[jkaris]

We always thought that the one that popped up on eBay a few years back (and sold for $50) was the first time it ever showed up in a 4 packs.

Who won the 4-pack you refer to jkaris?

Are we certain the one featured in the MPS Newsletter is not one that Doc, Philly, or Kinnikumanguerto now owns?

If it was in 1998, it was far before this board's time.

[Soupie]

If it was in 1998, it was far before this board's time.

Right, but what I'm asking is: Are we sure the MPS one didn't sell on eBay, and then get sold again and end up with Doc, Philly, or Kinnikumanguerto?

It's probably not the same one, but I just want to be sure, as at least one of the HSHA seems to have changed hands several times.

If this 4-pack is unique, that means there have been at least 4 found!

[jkaris]

If it was in 1998, it was far before this board's time.

Right, but what I'm asking is: Are we sure the MPS one didn't sell on eBay, and then get sold again and end up with Doc, Philly, or Kinnikumanguerto?

It's probably not the same one, but I just want to be sure, as at least one of the HSHA seems to have changed hands several times.

If this 4-pack is unique, that means there have been at least 4 found!

Who knows. You'd have to compare the pics to see if the figure assortment was identical.

[Kevin Mayle]

I just want to add that even before that 4-pack all us early MPS guys were getting our MUSCLEs through private sales through e-mail and warehouse backlogs. In fact I bought 100 unopened, unpunched, flesh 4-paks from Patrick Gresham in early 1997 and that was just a portion of his unopened collection. He had found a warehouse stash of them in 1996. He didn't have a Satan Cross, but what I'm trying to say is there was a whole online MUSCLE community in the 90's whose research and collections aren't even known about to the current AKIA community. I was MPS member #8. We only got up to about 25 members. If one of those few collectors found a warehouse stash of unopened MUSCLEs even before the MPS existed, then imagine how many MUSCLEs, super rares etc. are out there that the people that have them don't know what they are or care. If the AKIA doesn't have knowledge of what went on in the MUSCLE community just prior to it's existance then how can we really think we know all the finds that occur outside our community. Also, just think, most of us don't have the MUSCLEs we bought 19 years ago and we loved them. How can the ones popping up now on ebay be representative of what was really available a generation ago. I don't even know what I'm trying to get at here other than there were probably a ton of Satan Crosses made back then.

[Soupie]

I don't even know what I'm trying to get at here other than there were probably a ton of Satan Crosses made back then.

Yes, it's pretty apparent that Satan Cross is not rare.

However, 4-packs with him in it are rare, i.e., they rarely show up on eBay. For my own personal interests, I'm trying to keep track of certain rare, desirable MUSCLE items.

I'm not attempting to make any statement about the actual number of Satan Cross four packs produced.

[Universal Ruler ...]

Are all the original MPS members on this board? If not maybe someone who knows who the other members were can somehow try to get in touch with them to see what they have.

[arforbes]

If it was in 1998, it was far before this board's time.

Right, but what I'm asking is: Are we sure the MPS one didn't sell on eBay, and then get sold again and end up with Doc, Philly, or Kinnikumanguerto?

It's probably not the same one, but I just want to be sure, as at least one of the HSHA seems to have changed hands several times.

If this 4-pack is unique, that means there have been at least 4 found!

Who knows. You'd have to compare the pics to see if the figure assortment was identical.

This is the scan of Kinnikumanguertos Satancross 4-Pack...

It is indeed different...



This post has been edited by arforbes: Nov 14 2005, 01:13 PM

Attached File(s)

 Satancross.jpg ( 203.25K ) Number of downloads: 85

 

[Kevin Mayle]

Hey friend, maybe I misunderstood you. I see that some of you have been researching MUSCLE info for a number of years and trying to find out and keep track of any new info that you can. Like the rare stuff. I think this is extremely cool and I love it. I want to help any way I can. I was just surprised that research hadn't included asking any of the pre-AKIA MUSCLE community what they knew. Darrin Vindiola (MUSCLETOYS) is a member of this board. His online MUSCLE activity knowledge goes back to 1996. Back in 1997 MPS member Jason Radniecki went to MATTEL headquarters that happened to be in his home town in California to talk to them about MUSCLE. They no longer had any records of the toyline that had only been off the shelves for 9 years at that point and didn't have any employees that had been around back then, still there either. He did take some cool pictures for his website of his MUSCLEs at Mattel, returning home so to speak. This particular story may not have revealed any information but what I'm trying to say is, there was MUSCLE research going on since 1996 by members of this board. Nathan Newell (Tortle) was a member. Taka Kurosaka (Stinger Wolf) was member.
I saw someone else on one of the threads show a picture of all the MUSCLE newsletters and his membership card. Darrin would really be the one to talk to though. They probably aren't coming forward with any of these memories because we all went through this in the 90's and aren't avid as some of you newer guys. But if you go to him with questions he'll be happy to tell you anything you want to know. He's a really nice guy. None of us MPS guys has any hard proof of who has what, dates they exchanged hands and prices paid, but I see your info search seems to be wider than just a precise list of exactly what items have appeared on Ebay recently. Alot of your reseach seems to also include memories of where they purchased the items (Buffalo NY) and so on. Though SHA and BHS are probably MUSCLEs thogh very rare, DM and DE really aren't positively confirmed. But it is fun to Keep on top of the speculative information to and try and find out all we can. For me the rare one when I was a kid was the claw. Everyone I knew here in Florida was collecting MUSCLEs in 1986 but none of us had seen the claw except on the commercial. I made a trip that summer to my original hometown of Buffalo NY and there in practically every 10-pack was a claw. I'm just trying to add anything I can to your research.

[Kevin Mayle]

Ridureyo was an MPS member as well.

[jkaris]

Most of the info we got was from Darrin, Nate and Rid, way back then. They never mentioned the 4 pack from 98. I think they all forgot about it. Darrin has changed his site quite a few times, but even the one back in 2000 didn't have the info on the 4 pack. I am glad you remembered it.

[Kevin Mayle]

You know, I think because I'm brand new here, my memories are all pre AKIA and the MPS guys that have been here all along don't have that clear distinction between Pre and Post AKIA memories.

[General Veers]

Here's some more info on stuff I've learned about MUSCLE. Most of it is totally new info:

http://rare-muscle-stuff.tripod.com/id1.html

[Kevin Mayle]

Hey man that's cool. A lot of work is going into this. Here's a few things that might be of interest to somebody. This is a letter in Toyfare #30.

[Kevin Mayle]

Here is a letter from Toyfare #34.

[Kevin Mayle]

Here is the first page of the MUSCLE review in Toyfare #34.

[Kevin Mayle]

Here's the second page.

[Kevin Mayle]

And this is from Toyfare #99.

[jkaris]

Robin Knight? Hahahaha. They should have kept their packaging.

Scan the rest please.

[Kevin Mayle]

That's all I've got.

[doc_moore_j]

Wow that editer guy (Tom) is a douche hahahahahha.
So, do we know who these guys sticking up for muscle are? (Mr. Perry, Mr Mcguffin)

Thanks for posting those, pretty interesting read.

[Kevin Mayle]

If we could only add Philly's to this pic. I wonder if his SC is on the left of the package as well. They are all unpunched too.

This post has been edited by kevinmayle: Nov 16 2005, 02:44 PM

[doc_moore_j]

Where is that pic on the left from? We need a better one of that. Looks cool to see them all together.