64 replies to this topic

[BaltanII]

It's not always the case, but caution should be used on a regular basis when buying figures from China or Hong Kong. If a buyer's unfamiliar with the product, or even the difference between Japanese and Chinese writing in the case of packaging, mistakes can be easily made.

One of the common issues that crop up is in the area of Japanese gashapon toys. Rule of thumb is, if you see a series of loose figures, lacking packaging or anything else, with the exact same assortment of characters, and sold in high volume, without even comparing them to the genuine article, there's a good chance you have a boot.

And look what's just started popping up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=250359181164
http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=120366270304

A mixture of Atomic and Cartoon sculpts for no particular reason whatsoever, lacking cards or packages and an identical set of 24 figures. HMMMM.

Edited by Boaconda, 19 February 2009 - 09:37 PM.

[jkaris]

Gormiti bootlegs!!!!!

I wonder if the paint has lead....

[dankingery]

i've been watching these auctions by this seller on ebay for a couple of days now. currently i think there are at least 7 of these lots. i tried asking the seller a question about the auctions because when i first saw them there were only two and i wanted to know if the auctions were for the same figures or if they were just using the same pic for both auctions. never got a response. two more popped up yesterday and three today. after reading their feedback and seeing that they've been selling bootleg items for some time now i realized that this was the case with the gormiti.

it's really a shame, these are some great sculpts and i wouldn't mind getting them. but buying from a company that is in the business of bootlegging is kind of like trafficking drugs. something is always going to go wrong. i'll bet this is a pic of the originals and the ones you get are very low quality. who's to say that you'll even get these particular sculpts.

EDIT: quick update, there are two ebay stores that appear to be from the same outfit. although they go by slightly different names, wowna mall and wownasisters appear to be the same entity. they're using the exact same page layout for their auctions and they're using the same pics as well. wowna mall has seven of these listings and wownasisters has nine. i have a feeling that this is going to spread and grow much bigger.

Edited by dankingery, 21 January 2009 - 09:39 PM.

[SaltLakeToyJunkee]

Those auctions actually look like a mix between Atomic and Elemental Fusion. They look like legit Gormiti to me. Dont see anything that would suggest bootlegs? That is an awesome price too!!! I am sure it will be bis up though. Here is a checklist of the Elemental Fusion.

Elemental Fusion

[SpyMagician]

Those auctions actually look like a mix between Atomic and Elemental Fusion. They look like legit Gormiti to me. Dont see anything that would suggest bootlegs? That is an awesome price too!!! I am sure it will be bis up though. Here is a checklist of the Elemental Fusion.

Elemental Fusion

I think it's possible that these are "factory escapees" (i.e. samples that were bought/stolen/given away/taken in some way). Since legit Gormiti are made in China, it's not a stretch to imagine that like most other toy lines, a few samples make their way from China to HK sellers on ebay.

I actually won some of these so when they arrive I'll update as to whether they appear to be legit or actual bootlegs.

Spy

[musclemenkids]

It would be interesting to actually see some Gormiti bootlegs - they would be quite a nice novelty to have in your collection. Just don't let the kids lick them

Let us know how it goes Spy

[BaltanII]

Dont see anything that would suggest bootlegs?

I already explicitly mentioned why they could be bootlegs. These kinds of listings exist all the time for popular toylines, and with the US release, apparently Gormiti has hit that moment. Why else would the exact set of figures, a mixture of lines that appear years apart, be sold together in such large numbers? This literally happens all the time, and two seconds of eBay searching on nearly any franchise would yield a bunch of bootleg toys, if your eye is sharp enough to notice the telltale signs. Often, the listing rather than the toys themselves yield clues.

It'll help when SpyMagician receives his figures. My brother ordered several bootleg sets of Dragonball Z SD figures (intentionally), so I've seen how they come individually bagged with markings in Chinese. I'm expecting the same when he gets his.

Not everything from HK is a boot. A good majority of toys sold by HK aren't, and due to location they often get the latest Japanese toys (Soul of Chogokin, Ultraman, Kamen Rider, Sentai) first. That said, I don't believe these are stolen figures, only because of the two sets represented. Atomic has yet to appear in most of Europe or the US, and doesn't fit the Playmates pattern (due to having Atomic-colored Lords). If the figures were Elemental Fusion alone, I could see that. I don't see someone taking a bunch of the same small subset of Atomic figures, waiting a couple years for Elemental Fusion to be released, taking a subset of those figures, and then selling on eBay. It's just not logical.

Edited by Boaconda, 22 January 2009 - 04:47 AM.

[mimoman]

Boaconda speaks the truth--the odds are quite high that these are bootlegs.

I look forward to seeing SpyMagician's pictures... if the sculpts are of high enough quality, I might be tempted to snag a lot. I spy 4-5 cool sculpts in that lot.

[bronchuseven]

I wonder how toy pirates manage to make bootlegs of sculpts that have more than one piece.. most (but not all) of the Gormiti that I've bought are moulded in 2, 3, 4 or even 5 pieces and then assembled & glued together. A bootlegger would have to somehow take the pieces apart and cast them separately, or cut the figure at strategic places and then reassemble after moulding.

It's not that I doubt that these are boots, I'm just curious as to how it could be done. Maybe Marty will come into this thread and shed some light on the process.. although I think he only makes one-piece figures.

[General Veers]

These kinds of auctions often pop-up with new Star Wars figures, especially army builder-type figures.

These figures were probably made at the same factory as regular figures. Workers have been known to run extras and then sell them. So they're not exactly bootlegs - they're just illegally sold figures. Hasbro usually shuts the sellers down or at least has the eBay accounts closed.

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

This is as common as rocks. It always happens with hit lines. And Veers is right, usually it's the father factory who is guilty of bootlegs. Often times they just use a cheaper plastic and less paint apps and cheaper packaging. Alot of times the bootlegs are completely indifferent from the genuine figs. Bakugan has been getting bootlegged hardcore lately. In fact 9 times out of 10 a Hong Kong auction of Bakugan are bootlegs.

But This happened with Sota Street Fighter figures as well. The figures were completely identical in packaging. the main differences are the spray apps or shadowing details, and the fact that they stuck a new barcode over the printed one.

And also the number of parts isn't a real production issue. All the parts are usually clipped off of a runner, so they really are one part cut up then assembled I guess you could say.

[bronchuseven]

Yeah, if it's someone at the parent company who has access to the runner doing the bootlegging then it wouldn't make any difference how many parts there are.

[SpyMagician]

That said, I don't believe these are stolen figures, only because of the two sets represented. Atomic has yet to appear in most of Europe or the US, and doesn't fit the Playmates pattern (due to having Atomic-colored Lords). If the figures were Elemental Fusion alone, I could see that. I don't see someone taking a bunch of the same small subset of Atomic figures, waiting a couple years for Elemental Fusion to be released, taking a subset of those figures, and then selling on eBay. It's just not logical.

Great point. Odds are Boaconda is 100% correct.

The other possible explanation I could see is that recently in China a lot of factories have shut down or cut back on orders and warehouses have been emptied as a result of closures or cost cutting, leading to lots of older/vintage toys getting discovered.

A friend of mine in Hong Kong has a contact in China that trades in bootlegs, factory escapees, prototypes, etc. He was offered some mint boxed MASK, Centurions and Sky Commanders toys that were discovered after a factory closure as well as some mint vintage Kenner Care Bears.

So assuming these aren't bootlegs, it could be that a factory producing Gormiti purged some of their stored samples which were a mixture of older Atomics as well as Elemental Fusion.

Another possibility is that the Atomic Repaints are for an upcoming UK release (after the initial wave 2 that is currently in release.)

Elemental Fusion is the next Euro release, and if Atomic is the next UK release then these could represent samples of the most current figures in production. (Granted there's no evidence of Atomic for UK, but then there was no apparent reason to include FE repaints in the US release either...)

In any case, we'll know more when mine arrive! Sadly air mail from HK takes a couple weeks ususally...

One thing that will be very telling is if the the Atomic Volcano and Sea figures in the picture are color change... I'd be shocked if a bootleg figure went the route of adding color change when even the official US releases dumped it!

[dankingery]

update! i actually got a response back from wownasisters about the picture inquiry.

they said:

hi,you will get them as the picture show.
we will get new series of them,but them will be available after 10 days since we are having holiday now,CHINA SPRING FESTIVAL.
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
yours,
michelle

since they're selling so many of these odd lots it stands to reason that they are bootlegs.

[dankingery]

i guess people don't realize that there are more than one, they're bidding up just a couple of acutions and other ones are going with out bids.

[SpyMagician]

The plot thickens!

I found this auction which appears to be the EXACT figures wownasisters are selling, but from a seller in Italy that regularly sells Authentic Gormiti...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...L...:1|240:1318

He lists the Atomic Characters in the auction and states that there are no cards. Also gives no names for the Elemental Fusion figures as names are not known yet.

His pictures seem to be the ones from the Wownasisters auctions as well.

Intriguing...

As for mine, they only just shipped, due to Chinese New Year holiday...

Spy

[dankingery]

that's kind of scary that they took a photo of the computer screen to use for their listing. how much can you trust someone when they're bootlegging the alleged bootlegger's auction pics.

[SpyMagician]

that's kind of scary that they took a photo of the computer screen to use for their listing. how much can you trust someone when they're bootlegging the alleged bootlegger's auction pics.

Yeah, it's bizarre because I've gotten a number of items from the guy and he's always been reliable...

So strange...

[SpyMagician]

Ugh,

So now I get an email from Wowna Sisters saying they are SOLD OUT of the Gormiti pictured in the auctions and they are sending me some "other" Gormiti.

This is fishy.

I told them send me pics of exactly what the replacements are, and I'll consider. Honestly though, this looks like the old Bait and Switch, and I think I'll have to report them, if not for bootlegs, then for listing items they don't have in hand and attempting to replace them for unknown items...

Spy

[jkaris]

Ugh,

So now I get an email from Wowna Sisters saying they are SOLD OUT of the Gormiti pictured in the auctions and they are sending me some "other" Gormiti.

This is fishy.

I told them send me pics of exactly what the replacements are, and I'll consider. Honestly though, this looks like the old Bait and Switch, and I think I'll have to report them, if not for bootlegs, then for listing items they don't have in hand and attempting to replace them for unknown items...

Spy

File your Paypal claim now.

[dankingery]

that sucks spymagician. i'm with jkaris on this one. start filing your claim now. who knows what kind of shadows are now working against you.

[majinmoo]

I won one of those auctions as well. I haven't recieved an email about not getting my figures but I'll let you all know if they are legit when i get them.

[SpyMagician]

UPDATE!

Okay, my wownasisters figures arrived! I'll post a pic of the whole lot this evening, meantime here's the basic lowdown and a pic of a few of the Elemental Fusion figures. As I stated before they emailed me and said the original set of 24 I won were not available, but they'd send me a mix of figures.

What they sent was 48 figures (!) instead of the 24, including many dupes. Included in the package were Elemental Fusion, Energheia and Atomic figures (I'll post an exact list when I get home).

The big question: Are they real?

YES.

I think so. They all have copyright info on the foot, and it matches the Italian/Euro info (includes year for older figures, Elemental Fusion says copyright Giochi Preziosi and Marathon. The US figures don't have a year listed but have a WST#). The atomic figures have working color change (I got 1 Sea and a few Volcano) Also, the figures look and feel identical to the genuine figures I have. So IMO they are legit.

BUT. Here's the really interesting bit!

THE ELEMENTAL FUSION FIGURES don't have electronic chips! What they do have is a cavity in the foot where the chip would plug it.



My theory?

These are factory samples/escapees. They were probably coming off the line after assembly and painting but in the case of the EF figures, before the chips were added. This would make sense for sample runs as they would be QCing the figures in terms of assembly and paint, but the chips would likely be made and tested separately and only put together for final assembly.

What I'm sure of is that these are NOT the type of bootlegs that are re-cast from production figures with cheap tooling and produced with shoddy paint and construction.

Whether they are part of a sample run, or factory extras sold locally, or stolen or run at night in the official factories and sold on the street, I can't say.

But I'm certain these are figures made in the same factory that legit Gormiti are made.

Spy

[General Veers]

These figures were probably made at the same factory as regular figures. Workers have been known to run extras and then sell them. So they're not exactly bootlegs - they're just illegally sold figures.

Your write-up validates what I thought.

[BaltanII]

First of all, while a shame you didn't get the figures pictured, that you did still get Elemental Fusion stuff early, and twice as many figs total, certainly don't hurt.

Second, I had no idea there were electronics in the Cartoon and Elemental Fusion guys. I'm sure I've read it around here somewhere and it was mentioned, but that didn't click in my head.

Third, you are correct, that doesn't sound like boots at all, and I reflected that in the thread title. This sort of thing is about as common as actual boots, so it's no surprise, just not what I originally expected as the explanation for these. Obviously, with no cards and no chips, others still need to be aware that these aren't the same as any other loose Gormiti lots.