21 replies to this topic

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

I find your Bootlegging tirade to be somewhat confusing. I can't understand how producing a custom and selling it under fraudulent pretenses concludes bootlegging is taking place. Has there been a number of similar instances from different or the same persons within the hobby to misrepresent these customs as legitimate pieces?

I think Fake is the more appropriate term in this case, unless I'm missing facts. Though I guess it's a thin line as far as defintions.
Bootlegs often have referred to, in my experience, as unlicensed mass produced copyrighted items, with the intention of coat tailing the official items for undeserved profit. I'm sure some would define it differently, pertaining to the subject in question.

Fraud has obviously taken place though. It's sort of like the Fake Magenta Claw fiasco the Muscle community had some time ago. http://www.littlerub...d...st&p=250554

That member was banned for being intentionally vague.
But having a knowledge of something wrong taking place, and not reporting it makes one an accessory to the fraud.
It would be different if say, the customizer sold the figure to another party, and the other party attempted to pass said item off as legit in order to fraud other collectors without the knowledge of the customizer.

That's like someone buying a custom from TheGodBeast, then trying to sell it as a legit figure. I think I even recall a few instances where TGB called out some sellers who were vague on his customs when it reached his attention that they were selling them.

From the sounds of it, the customizer had no intention of profiting from the actions of the Fraud, outside of the agreed trade. Maybe you could have been more tactful about how you brought this out. It just seems you dropped most of the heat on the customizer, and not enough on the defrauder. Dunno.

A terrible situation either way, as such things always seem to end poorly. Some times even severely wounding a hobby for some time.

On a side note, I'm somewhat impressed with your devotion to the hobby, and concern for fellow collectors. But you sure are one egotistical person! .......Take one to know one?

Edited by Universal Ruler Supreme, 01 February 2010 - 02:32 AM.

[Strontium Dog]

Thank you for bringing this to the community's attention Brojo. How sad that this sort of thing is as common as ever.

Federico ought to be expected to explain why he remained silent while his friend passed off his custom work as a genuine item.

[andy53600]

Here is a photo of the figure from the collection of the winning bidder:[attachment=25880:series38...customs_.jpg]
Here are aliases of the 2 parties involved:Mr. Federico Mazzotta:Nicknames: “Fed” and “Fede”
LRG: “GormTransMonsters”
eBay: “gormtransmonsters” and formerly “fasaman666”
Yahoo: “federico.mazzotta” and “multiforce79”
Mr. Daniele Falasco:Nickname: “Dani”
eBay: “anna-45”, formerly “dan81f”, and possibly “my-ale”
Yahoo: “focozza”
[/list]I’m sorry, Federico; nothing personal.
I hope you, of all people, understand why bootleg Series-3 figures must be exposed.

Unless I'm mistaken, that Blemmyea on the bottom right-hand corner is clear/see-through exactly like the Mexican series 1's. Weird!

[SpectreSuperSix5]

"The Hub." I didn't get the memo that we're making self proclimations. I call "Emperor of the World."

So, this Italian guy sells a custom piece to another guy, who then sells it to someone else without saying it's a custom.

Why are you after the Italian guy? "Conspiracy of silence?" Why is it the Italian's guy responsibilty to make sure his customers never falsely advertise his products during re-sale?

Why now? I only came back to LRG very recently and, more importantly, I only uncovered the “smoking gun” chat-logs 1 or 2 days ago.

Uh, if those chat logs are real, which there is no proof that they are, they're dated last November. Did you black out when you had this supposed coversation and only recently discovered it again? Sorry, but your "smoking gun" is merely heresay.

[jkaris]

Uh, if those chat logs are real, which there is no proof that they are, they're dated last November. Did you black out when you had this supposed coversation and only recently discovered it again? Sorry, but your "smoking gun" is merely heresay.

He wasn't able to access the board last November, as his IP range was blocked.

[SpectreSuperSix5]

He wasn't able to access the board last November, as his IP range was blocked.

Which is his first reason, but his second reason says he only discovered this information 1 or 2 days ago.

So if he only found out 1-2 days ago, who was talking to this Italian dude 3 months ago?

[Universal Ruler Supreme]

There have been no other such incidents which I know of (except for some Mexican bootlegs of Series-1 figures, which were perpetrated by other persons). However, this does not necessarily mean that other such incidents haven't taken place without me catching them. To me, the disturbing question is: "What happened to the mold from which this fake figure was made?" Other fakes could have easily been made without my knowledge, or could still be made in the future, or both

I'm not sure if I was completely clear on what I meant. Most officially full marketed bootlegs within any collectible hobby have in most cases, and especially after the fact, sustained their own market value due to Nostalgia and curiosity. So these Mexican Series-1 bootlegs actually hold a market value within the hobby, regardless of their original intent. Custom produced figures, which are always made in singles or handfuls, can't really be considered Bootlegging I don't think. And their value is only dependent upon the buyer who wants them, knowing they are of course customs. For instance, TGB's muscle customs are sold at a set value of the customizer, but to some muscle collectors who don't buy his customs, they are considered worthless.

On second thought, this figure may not have been made from a mold. Because it's smaller and harder, it may have been customized by soaking a normal Leviathan in a mixture of acetone and ink.

Shrinkage is common with many custom molded figures, due to the type of materials used. Debating the production process of the figure is moot until the customizer comes forth with the information. It's a very good custom either way though.

Edited by Universal Ruler Supreme, 01 February 2010 - 02:20 PM.

[Aikola]

If I am not mistaken the last picture is Dark Clowns collection, And if it is he has a pretty impressive MIMP collection already.

Edited by Aikola, 06 February 2010 - 01:58 PM.

[GormTransMonsters]

I’m sorry, Federico; nothing personal.
I hope you, of all people, understand why bootleg Series-3 figures must be exposed.
[/quote]


Hi to all guys,
I'm sorry I'm not so good in english, so I hope you can forgive some my mistake in this post...
I wanted to clarify something about this topic that Brojo is going up to talk about....
I read that he is telling I had cospiracy with Dany Falasco to sell custom figure to someone I absolutely don't know...
At that time I have got one Blue leviathan in bad conditions just about colour... a lot of discolouration that is became in very Greenish-Blue instead the normal blue in MINT condition.
So I've tried to change his colour putting into acetone and water mixed but I made just for me, not like commission absolutely.
Infact then I had this custom figure for so long time with me...
Then One day Dany asked to me about pictures I put on MIMp's yahoo group with showed that leviathan with green one and Purple one close it and he asked can you sell it to me, (or Trade I don't remember cause it's so far date) please?
I told him it's just a custom I made is not original... but He tolds to me, ok ok is ok for me... I want it so much!!!
so I sold or traded it to him together with other 3S figures all in block and never knows about his trading with that american collector before I've seen that picture of his whole collection, that's the last one is exposed here, too...
Then I've asked him: "why you sold or trade it out? You wanted so much that figure..." and he told me I've sold that figure for a good price to another collector.
That's all!!
Brojo you're an incredible Jealous person and I think for you this is not an hobby but just like a life reason ever searchin for fight with others collectors.
Then I don't like your behaviour... I think YOUR is cospiracy that you copied and paste our private messages on MSN!!!!! I can't know if they are autentic or not cause it is about some months ago.
I want to share no more with you in my whole life.. you're not a MIMP collector but a person ever searching for arguments and fights with other people.
Thank you for your attention

[quote name='Strontium Dog' post='257273' date='Feb 1 2010, 01:15 PM']Thank you for bringing this to the community's attention Brojo. How sad that this sort of thing is as common as ever.

Federico ought to be expected to explain why he remained silent while his friend passed off his custom work as a genuine item.[/quote]

Ah, Anyway just to reply Strontium,
I'm not a friend of Dani absolutely, I know almost nothing about him and I have advice him about it was a custom... Then I can't know what he did when he's gone to sell or trade it for...
And I'm not interested in which price he got for that figure...
When I traded it, I was all right with my conscience, I had no money for that four figure now I remember but just other Mimp's characters back.
Thanks all for attention

Edited by GormTransMonsters, 02 February 2010 - 11:18 AM.

[Battlechaser7]

If specter gets to be Emperor I want to be a deity.

Best,
Chris

LRG Deity of Awesome!!

[SpectreSuperSix5]

If specter gets to be Emperor I want to be a deity.

Best,
Chris

LRG Deity of Awesome!!

Deal.

[jkaris]

So,

1. Are the chat logs legit?
2. Did the seller (Dani) list it with the intent of suckering someone into thinking it was legit?
3. Did Federico know before or during the auction, that Dani was trying to hoodwink someone into paying more for a custom, by leaving out the fact that it was a custom? (did he pull a DiplotmatX)

Looking at everything, it most certainly looks like Federico stayed silent per Dani's request, knowing that Dani was trying to pull a scam on someone or HAD pulled a scam on someone.

If Federico knew of the Dani's intent before or during the ebay auction, then that is being part of the scam. If he didn't find out until after the auction, then really there isn't much blame there, other than he should have let his fellow MIMP collectors know when he found out.

Other than WHEN Federico knew, the rest is pretty clear to me.

So Federico, when did you find out?

BTW, I removed the poll because it was pointless.

[GormTransMonsters]

Other than WHEN Federico knew, the rest is pretty clear to me.

So Federico, when did you find out?


When I talked with Dani he just told me:
Can you sell some 3S doubles to me?
After I gave him the list of avalaible figures to trade or sell and he told me I'm interested in 3 figures... Then he found the picture of green Leviathan on Yahoo and asked can you sell that one, too?
I answered it is just a custom is not Legit Figure.
He told me: if you're agree I'd like to buy that one, too...
Then I've received payment for all 4 figures and sent them to...
After pretty long time I've talked with Brojo on MSN and he told me:
Do you remember that Greenish Leviathan you had?
Me: Yes..
Brojo: It was sold by Dani to An American collector and I'm so angry Because I told him a lot of time to reserve that figure for me...
So I asked... Really? Dani told me that He wanted that figure for himself at that time but not to Re-Sell...
And Brojo Told me: It was sold for a very large price to that collector...
That's all... This is the complete version of "What's happened in this event..."

Edited by GormTransMonsters, 05 February 2010 - 05:40 AM.

[DarrylWestley]

So is it fair to say that the person who Dani sold the 'custom' Leviathan to may
have actually known it was a custom when buying it? If that is the collection of
figures it was added to... I would be surprised if they didn't!

See the position of elements, bottom right there is a Blemmyea in SILVER,
this must also be a custom? Maybe the collector just likes obscurities. Also
as the sale of 'custom' Leviathan' was private it is very difficult to determine
otherwise. If this was a public Ebay listing where the description implied this
was an official piece it would be a different matter entirely.

If the American collector who owns this 'custom' Leviathan be known it can be
cleared up pretty quickly?! Do we know anymore about the price he paid other
than "[probably for hundreds of dollars]".

Edited by DarrylWestley, 05 February 2010 - 05:55 AM.

[Strontium Dog]

So either there's no wrongdoing at all, or the person doing the wrong is someone who isn't a member of this forum. Either way I don't think it's an LRG forum matter

Still, I guess this thread has opened my eyes to the possibility of MIMP bootlegs, so there's some use come out of it at least.

[Soupie]

Wow, that is a great point. I think you're right. The picture has this figures displayed in a pretty solid pattern. It would be very logical to assume the column of figures farthest to the right are customs/oddities.

I don't think there is any doubt that the "American collector" has the figure set aside as an oddity. I assumed the same thing when I saw the picture Brojo posted. However, this does not inform us of whether or not the "American collector" knew it was a custom-made figure before or after he purchased it.

So either there's no wrongdoing at all, or the person doing the wrong is someone who isn't a member of this forum. Either way I don't think it's an LRG forum matter wink.gif

Still, I guess this thread has opened my eyes to the possibility of MIMP bootlegs, so there's some use come out of it at least.

Agreed on both points: Neither Dani nor the "American collector" appear to be members here. Brojo's only real gripe is that he "almost" purchased a custom figure. If I were bidding or haggling for a Cheap Toy or BEB figure that turned out to be a custom figure, I'd be miffed too, and I think I'd also be inclined to post here about it. But still, this is really between Dani and the "American collector."

Also, I can't speak for Frederico/GTM, but if the chat logs that Brojo posted are fabricated, you better believe I'd ask Jkaris to have them removed. Becasue if those chat logs are indeed legit, if I were a MIMP collector, I might think twice about dealing with Frederico/GTM based on what it in those chat logs.

And if they are fabricated, they should be removed, imo.

Still, as SD says, it is important for MIMP collectors to be aware of the fact that MIMP figures are being customized by collectors, and to make note of this when bidding and/or haggling for figures.

Edited by Soupie, 05 February 2010 - 06:50 AM.

[jkaris]

Ok,

I removed the chat logs per a request by GTM (Federico). They served their purpose.

Federico said that he found out after the fact, and was not privy to the info before.
He should have told somebody as soon as he found out that Dani sold it to a buyer unawares, but in reality, he did. He told Brojo. However, the responsible thing to do would have been to then post it openly for the MIMP group (here and elsewhere) to see.

Brojo, you should have posted this openly on your yahoo group when you first found out. But I am glad that you made this known now, so that MIMP collectors can be made aware.

This thread will be locked. A Dishonest seller alert will be posted for Dani and it will reference this thread.

UPDATE:

I am going to repost the chat logs for posterity. GTM states that he did not know about Dani selling the figure until after it was a done deal, but in the chat logs it seems like he says he knew before he even traded it.

(8:03:40 PM) Brojo: Because I collect every type of MIMP item, and I've never seen another Leviathan like that. Ever.
(8:07:10 PM) federico: do you want to know the secret?
(8:08:36 PM) Brojo: Sure
(8:08:57 PM) federico: that one is one of my customs biggrin.gif
(8:09:14 PM) Brojo: The Leviathan?
(8:09:20 PM) federico: yes...
(8:09:44 PM) Brojo: Interesting! Why have you been keeping that a secret?
(8:10:05 PM) federico: Dani told me so....
(8:10:21 PM) federico: Dani wanted that one so much cause he tolds me
(8:10:43 PM) federico: I�ve found to sell it at very good price... can you trade with me please?
(8:11:01 PM) federico: and I told him ok but remember it is a custom
(8:11:27 PM) federico: and he told me please never say it to others collectors
(8:11:54 PM) Brojo: That's very uncool. Dani's too concerned with money
(8:12:02 PM) Brojo: And he never told me it was a custom, either
(8:12:53 PM) federico: ahahah too concerned with money... ahahah I think so...�